David Woof on tue 30 aug 05
G. morning Holli, I get a sense that it's you that is not centered.
Relax, empty yourself, you most likely have a bad case of performance
anxiety, and are coming to the wheel bound up with expectations.
First we bind ourselves mentally, which ties us up emotionaly and
subsequently locks us up physically. if this is the case, your hands, arms
and body will not sense where center is or when the clay is arriveing at
this state. you will push right past and as frustration mounts you will
try harder for control and the fight you can never win begins.
I could be talking about great relationships, love making, martial
arts,.......... anywhere surrender and being in the moment without
preconcieved expectation brings us to a state of bliss. clay is a great
teacher, don't fight, don't force, listen.
David Woof
peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
John Kudlacek on tue 30 aug 05
I could not find the post stating they were having problems centering on
their Shimpo, only advice pertaining to. So, with no more information
than that, let me offer this: Since you made specific reference to
your "Shimpo" wheel, I am going to assume that you have had centering
success on other wheels. If so, try this, make sure the wheel is LEVEL ! I
have been doing pots for forty or more years and have never heard anyone
say anything about leveling wheels but,it must be significant. Anyway,
many years ago, I was having problems centering with a new, state of the
art wheel I had moved into my basement. Leveling it solved my problem.
If my assumption is not correct, I like Dave's advice.
John Kudlacek P.S. We level washers and driers don't we ? jk
Wayne Seidl on tue 30 aug 05
There is something that may not have considered, aside from everyone
else's suggestions.
We are creatures that depend (heavily) on our senses for what we do.
As workers in ceramics (how's that for a job description), perhaps
we are more in tune with our senses than others.
This might sound ridiculous, but if the Whisper is as quiet as other
folk claim, perhaps you're not getting the aural feedback you are
accustomed to (slight motor noise increase with you adding
additional pressure, etc.) and you're subconsciously relying on that
feedback from the wheel to adjust your working patterns.
Try turning on your favorite music while you try (again) to center
on that wheel. It may help?
The "clicking bats" just means that the holes in the bats are too
large. Mush a bit of clay around the pins, then set the bat in
place on the wheelhead. Or use a new bat.
Just a thought,
Wayne (WHAADJYASAY???) Seidl
Potter, Mark on tue 30 aug 05
I'll offer my two cents here, as I had this problem with my Brent. It
was dropped off the back of a truck when it was delivered to me, and
banged the wheel and only very slightly bent the shaft. This made
throwing on the wheel very difficult for me at first. This problem ended
up becoming an education in throwing (and I'm no great thrower!)
The wheel definitely has a wobble, but I learned to deal with it.
Some wheels are less perfect than others, but unless there is a really
big wobble in the bearing it is possible to center with most wheels,
even very crude ones.
But, . . . . . if the wheel is not level, whatever tiny wobble might be
there, has it's effect amplified.
The best way to explain it is this: Imagine a pencil (a perfectly
straight one) standing on it's eraser end, in the center of a perfect
wheel, perfectly leveled. The wheel turns and if all is center the
pencil keeps it's balance . . .=20
But if the wheel tips or wobbles even slightly, even very slightly,
there is no way this pencil or dowel can keep its balance. The
difference in accelerative force between the up side and the down side
will be doubled.
The faster you spin the wheel when centering, the more that any off
balance effect is compounded. Really great potters throw with a real
economy of energy, the minimum of physical force, and velocity. A really
great thrower makes it look easy. The wheel seems to turn so slowly and
yet the pot seems to emerge so quickly. There's a film of Hamada
throwing, damm you wonder how does he do that! How slow the wheel is
going! Half of my demon when learning to throw was speeding up the wheel
too much.
Level the wheel perfectly and slow way down.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John
Kudlacek
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:56 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: can't center on my shimpo
I could not find the post stating they were having problems centering on
their Shimpo, only advice pertaining to. So, with no more information
than that, let me offer this: Since you made specific reference to
your "Shimpo" wheel, I am going to assume that you have had centering
success on other wheels. If so, try this, make sure the wheel is LEVEL !
I
have been doing pots for forty or more years and have never heard anyone
say anything about leveling wheels but,it must be significant. Anyway,
many years ago, I was having problems centering with a new, state of the
art wheel I had moved into my basement. Leveling it solved my problem.
If my assumption is not correct, I like Dave's advice.
John Kudlacek P.S. We level washers and driers don't we ? jk
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Craig Clark on tue 30 aug 05
David Woof wrote:
> G. morning Holli, I get a sense that it's you that is not centered.
> Relax, empty yourself, you most likely have a bad case of performance
> anxiety, and are coming to the wheel bound up with expectations.
Sorry, but I can't get past the patronizing attitude of this post.
It echos many of the "serene" type of pronouncements that I have heard
from the meditative crowd for years. I have, can and periodically do sit
down at the wheel and center very large amounts of clay for a settling
type of activity. I can center when I'm screaming from the mountaintops.
Yes, calmness does indeed hel, and is something that I wholly
recommend!. But, there can be mechanical complications with a particular
wheel, however rare they may be.
Holli, if you are all ready adept at centering and suddenly you are
unable to center on your new wheel despite your best and repeated
efforts, then there may indeed be a mechanical reason. One, the slightly
bent shaft (not very likely....but possible) has already been mentioned.
A few things to check: End play. Does the edge of the wheel head
move up and down as it spins. It you position a pointed tool so that it
is within a 16th of an inch or less of the top of the wheel head at the
otter most edge the wheel head should not touch the wheel head as it
spins. If it does there is "end play" which is either a result of a
wheel head that isn't flat, a bearing that ain't quite right, a slight
irregularity it the shaft on which the wheel head spins, or any
combination of these three things. This could be enough to make
things difficult for you, especially if the wheel is different from
others on which you have thrown. It shouldn't make it impossible though.
I have seen potters in Bolivia throwing full tilt boogie on homecrafted
wheels which basically consisted of less than ideally flat piece of
quasi flat wood connected to an imperfect shaft that was spinning in a
"bearing" that was nothing more than a heavily greased piece of leather
jammed into a hole through a 2x4. The bottom "fly wheel" at the bottom
of the shaft was an old automobile wheel, tire and part of an axle.
Worked quite well for the man who was using it...LOL.....so unless it's
really bad the end play thing may not be the culprit. Just try and feel
what the wheel is doing before you evem put any clay on it and start to
center. Try closing your eyes and let your finger tips examine things
for you.
Make sure the wheel is spinning at a steady speed. If there are
fluctuations, for whatever reason, this may be giving you difficulty as
well.
The mechanical things are pretty quick to spot. Once you have done this
then it may be a good idea to sit and have another crack at it with a
nice cooling breathing cycle.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
June Perry on tue 30 aug 05
You can still center clay even if you prop a bat up on one side, so I
suspect it isn't that you wheel isn't level. One possibility is that this new wheel
is a different height and you are somehow altering your usual body position
as it relates to the clay.
Also, the usual suspect with centering difficulties can be traced to
improperly wedged clay.
Regards,
June Perry(studio still not complete and dealing with a sprained ankle, so
I'm having lots of computer time! :-(
_http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/_
(http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/)
m.mshelomi on tue 30 aug 05
One moment, please...
Since I figure cost as how many hours it takes me to earn money, whatever I
buy better work for me right out of the box.
I do not feel that the way the way I use the item, if used correctly, should
even enter the equation.
Why should Holli have to change the way she
throws,
relaxes
or make any concession
for such an important and expensive piece of equipment?
Where is the vendor and manufacturer?
Since it is new, isn't it under warranty?
Why should we have to "fix" a piece of equipment that is not working
properly?
Take the damn thing back and let the "experts" tell you why it is not
working the way it should.
LET THEM FIX IT or tell you what you are doing improperly.
pottermim still muttering after reading all of these posts
Wayne Seidl on tue 30 aug 05
Sorry pottermim, but I have to disagree. Vehemently.
There was recently(?) a case where a retired couple
sued an RV manufacturer. (They won, but that wasn't the point.)
The man, after driving for some hours, decided that he was tired and
pulled over. His wife took over driving, and he went in back for a
nap. During her driving stint, she got hungry, so she set the
cruise control, LEFT THE DRIVER'S SEAT, and went in back to fix
herself a sandwich. Her action resulted in a crash. (Duh!)
They claimed in court that the operator's manual did not
"specifically say" that one could not do that, and so the jury
awarded them I forget how much in damages. That was a bad call,
IMHO, rewarding them for their stupidity.
Should the manufacturer be responsible because you do not follow
common sense? Should any manufacturer be held responsible (liable)
for training you on a piece of machinery you buy? Should the
manufacturer decide that you are or are not capable of running a
machine, and therefore are or are not entitled to buy it? =20
NO, NO, NO!!!
(The next time you buy a coffeemaker or a can opener at Kmart, do
you want to spend all day in a training session to learn how to use
it? I don't think so.)
If there is a defect in a piece of machinery, YES, the manufacturer
should be responsible for fixing it, or replacing it, to my way of
thinking, even if the defect appears after warranty (as in auto
recalls).
But they should not be responsible for your failure to learn how to
use it properly.
In the case of the original poster, (s)he already knows how to throw
on a particular wheel. There is something wrong with either the way
(s)he is using the new one, or (s)he is simply not used to it yet.
If there is a defect in the machine, I have no doubt that Sh(r)impo
will stand behind their product and correct the defect while
under warranty. =20
But the "jury is still out" on whether the machine is indeed
defective. More information is still required. There are a lot of
variables to consider here. The owner of that wheel needs time to
adjust, just as a driver needs to adjust from an old (familiar) to a
new vehicle, not blame the manufacturer automatically for their
failure to be able to use it properly.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
LET THEM FIX IT or tell you what you are doing improperly.
pottermim still muttering after reading all of these posts
Steve Slatin on tue 30 aug 05
Mim --
A corresponding question -- did Holli check the wheel
for suitability before purchasing it? I wouldn't buy
an automobile without test driving it. If for some
reason I did, I wouldn't blame the manufacturer for
making a car I didn't turn out to be comfortable
driving.
Many potters purchase equipment from distant vendors.
Some have no choice, as they have no local vendors.
Others just try to save a few $. If they do and the
wheel or kiln is OK, the savings is soon forgotten.
If it isn't OK, the agony seems to last almost
forever.
I don't know what Holli's problem is, but with a new
wheel involved, seating position, height, distance
from the wheel, etc. are all possible sources of
trouble. As are wheelhead distortions, improper head
mounting, and wobbly motor mounts. And unlevel
floors. And adjustment to the new motor sound. And
pedal sensitivity and wheel velocity.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- "m.mshelomi" wrote:
> One moment, please...
>
> Since I figure cost as how many hours it takes me to
> earn money, whatever I
> buy better work for me right out of the box.
> I do not feel that the way the way I use the item,
> if used correctly, should
> even enter the equation.
> Why should Holli have to change the way she
> throws,
> relaxes
> or make any concession
> for such an important and expensive piece of
> equipment?
> Where is the vendor and manufacturer?
Steve Slatin --
Drove downtown in the rain
9:30 on a Tuesday night
Just to check out the
Late night record shop
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