Jennifer Boyer on tue 30 aug 05
Hi,
We have been having a discussion in our area about jury standards for
clay work in craft galleries. Specifically we are thinking about where
you draw the line for slip casting. As a potter who does wheel work, I
am comfortable with a rule that says if someone casts their work they
must have personally made the model used to make the molds. The potter
can't buy bisk ware or commercially made molds form a company like
Gare. The only exception I can justify is in the case of tiles. It
doesn't bother me that potters buy tiles since the home
building/remodeling market can require a consistent size.
Does anyone out there have any nicely worded jury guidelines to share?
Jennifer
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Wayne Seidl on wed 31 aug 05
Jennifer:
You need to talk to Nan Kitchens or Stephani Stephenson about tiles.
With a decent tile press, you can turn out many tiles per hour, all
consistent, all the time. I know, I watched Nan do it last week.
She made it look effortless, including making the slabs first.
I think you might want to specify hand made tiles as well.
Just my 2=A2 ( which of course means naught)
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Jennifer Boyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:11 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: jury standards for pottery
Hi,
We have been having a discussion in our area about jury standards
for
clay work in craft galleries. Specifically we are thinking about
where
you draw the line for slip casting. As a potter who does wheel work,
I
am comfortable with a rule that says if someone casts their work
they
must have personally made the model used to make the molds. The
potter
can't buy bisk ware or commercially made molds form a company like
Gare. The only exception I can justify is in the case of tiles. It
doesn't bother me that potters buy tiles since the home
building/remodeling market can require a consistent size.
Does anyone out there have any nicely worded jury guidelines to
share?
Jennifer
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Jennifer Boyer on wed 31 aug 05
Hi Wayne,
I see your point but:
This is a hypothetical exercise, but an interesting one. There is a =20
person in VT who has her tiles in most of the best state galleries and =20=
paints on purchased tiles. Her slip painting is absolutely beautiful. =20=
It doesn't really bother me that she buys the tiles. She would have to =20=
make almost the exact shape that she is buying anyway. There are also =20=
some folks who paint wooden bowls that they buy. They are the generic =20=
wooden bowl shape. Both of them totally transform the bowls with their =20=
decoration, as does the tile maker. Somehow I would feel different if I =20=
saw someone buying a lines of dinnerware bisk and trying to sell it in =20=
a high end gallery no matter how good the decoration was....
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I need plenty of devils advocates!
I guess I'm trying to see how you could institute jury guidelines onto =20=
a gallery that already has an existing exhibitor list....
Jennifer
On Aug 31, 2005, at 1:36 AM, Wayne Seidl wrote:
> Jennifer:
> You need to talk to Nan Kitchens or Stephani Stephenson about tiles.
> With a decent tile press, you can turn out many tiles per hour, all
> consistent, all the time. I know, I watched Nan do it last week.
> She made it look effortless, including making the slabs first.
> I think you might want to specify hand made tiles as well.
> Just my 2=A2 ( which of course means naught)
> Wayne Seidl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Jennifer Boyer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:11 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: jury standards for pottery
>
> Hi,
> We have been having a discussion in our area about jury standards
> for
> clay work in craft galleries. Specifically we are thinking about
> where
> you draw the line for slip casting. As a potter who does wheel work,
> I
> am comfortable with a rule that says if someone casts their work
> they
> must have personally made the model used to make the molds. The
> potter
> can't buy bisk ware or commercially made molds form a company like
> Gare. The only exception I can justify is in the case of tiles. It
> doesn't bother me that potters buy tiles since the home
> building/remodeling market can require a consistent size.
>
> Does anyone out there have any nicely worded jury guidelines to
> share?
>
> Jennifer
> ************************
> Jennifer Boyer
> Thistle Hill Pottery
> Montpelier, VT
>
> http://thistlehillpottery.com
>
> =
_______________________________________________________________________=20=
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Alex Solla on wed 31 aug 05
Usually I sit these talks out but I will chime in on this one:
Jurying handmade objects, whether for a gallery or a show or exhibition all boils down to two things in my book. 1. what are the economic stakes? 2. what is the demographic?
With a gallery situation you may find it simpler and easier to just bring in whatever sells. Your call. It may be "handmade" in the sense that once upon a time someone touched it, maybe in another country even. Do you care? Does your buying customer care? Again, your call.
Now, if you do care.... why? Dollars are dollars right? Well, I guess that depends on your moral footing. If this gallery is being promoted as a venue for handmade items, and your clientele expects a certain authenticity of goods, you could shoot yourself in the foot by carrying manufactured goods.
I think it all boils down to the two issues of economics and demographics.
We just did a show last weekend that completely skewed our research over the past 9 years of shows. We saw fewer bodies walk by, but saw our avg ticket sale more than double. When we talked with these folks the first thing out of their mouth was how much they liked this particular show because there was less "craft" and more "ART". They also liked having fewer artists to see at a show; shows have gotten too big. Not enough time to really see everyone and go back and buy what you saw at the beginning of the show. This is all from their point of view of course.
So what does it mean? I guess if you cultivate a market for handmade whatever, you have to find and develop that market. If you just want to bring in anyone of the street for some fast $, then pricepoint will be your bottomline. Tony C could probably list the proper marketing terms for this economy, but suffice to say, you have to make a choice.
We just pulled out of a gallery that was starting to carry too much in the way of gifts... manufactured stuff that you could get in any gift shop, potters whose work you could find anywhere... that isnt what folks looking for our pots wanted. They let us know when they came out to our shop. They werent really complaining as much as expressing surprise that we were selling in this store. Maybe that's it. It went from being a gallery to being a gift shop/store.
It isnt about slipcasting vs some other process, it is about the nature of craftsmanship vs modern economics. Personally, I think the rewards of carrying top notch handmade goods is more than off-set by the work one has to do to get the public educated and marketed to.
That's my 2 pennies worth on a WET wed morning. First rain we have seen (at all!) since June 9th.
cheers,
Alex Solla
Cold Springs Studio
4088 Cold Springs Road
Trumansburg, NY 14886
607-387-4042 voice/fax
info@coldspringsstudio.com
www.coldspringsstudio.com
> Hi,
> We have been having a discussion in our area about jury standards
> for
> clay work in craft galleries. Specifically we are thinking about
> where
> you draw the line for slip casting. As a potter who does wheel work,
> I
> am comfortable with a rule that says if someone casts their work
> they
> must have personally made the model used to make the molds. The
> potter
> can't buy bisk ware or commercially made molds form a company like
> Gare. The only exception I can justify is in the case of tiles. It
> doesn't bother me that potters buy tiles since the home
> building/remodeling market can require a consistent size.
>
> Does anyone out there have any nicely worded jury guidelines to
> share?
>
> Jennifer
> ************************
> Jennifer Boyer
> Thistle Hill Pottery
> Montpelier, VT
>
> http://thistlehillpottery.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Wayne Seidl on wed 31 aug 05
Dear Jennifer:
From that standpoint, I'm assuming you meant that the art is being
created "on" a particular medium. I suppose that works for me. I
don't know many painters, for example, that stretch their own canvas
or make the frames. There are potters that create works that they
call their own on pots they "commission" to be thrown for them. The
work is breathtaking, and I would never consider that it was not
"their" work because they had someone else make the form for them.
On the other hand, (since this is a hypothetical exercise :>)
I have seen work here in town which is simply green ware available
anywhere, glazed with commercial glazes (not decorated, simply
glazed) which is then exhibited and sold as "hand made". Scary that
people actually buy it. I shake my head and shudder when I see it.
(One piece still had the mold lines on it!) I have a problem with
that, a big one.
As to instituting jury guidelines into a gallery that has an already
existing exhibitor list:
* Would the existing exhibitors be required to follow any such
guidelines? Perhaps phased in over time?
* Are the guidelines being instituted strictly to "weed out"
some of the existing exhibitors? (that's political, and I hate that
idea)
* Is it only for certain shows, or is _every_ exhibitor going
to be juried form now on, and
* Is this a "peer review" from other exhibitors or simply a
judgment by the gallery owner (I'm assuming owners do this
regularly anyhow, in deciding who they want in their gallery)?
* Is this for certain shows or exhibitions only, and will the
existing exhibiting artists be told that up front?
* Last, is work by other exhibitors in that space (who may
have been exhibiting there for some time) going to be=20
denied future space, in favor of juried work?
Here's another gray area for you:
If someone were to take an object that was "meant" for one purpose
and use it in a completely different way, does that make it
"theirs"? I had to wrestle with that one for a while, but in the
end decided that if the parts they were using were no longer being
used for their original function, it might be considered "theirs".
An artist here in town takes metal yardsticks ($6.97), bends them in
(sometimes) amazing configurations, maybe with some popsicle sticks
glued up as ladders, glues painted plastic or small wooden figures
($0.69-$1.99 each) on them in various poses, and calls it her own.
Sells them for big bucks too ($300+). Is it "found object" art?
In her case, I would think yes, it is "hers" because she is using
the items in a new and original way, not for their original purpose.
Both of the artists I mentioned exhibit in the same gallery,
alongside other artists doing watercolors, other (nicer, IMHO)
ceramics, whimsical paper mache sculptures, and leather work.
Eclectic and funky as a whole, but it makes that gallery work.
Perhaps I'm offbase, having lived here too long, but it seems to me
that not every customer wants the same thing. How can you create
standards for that and why would you? The bad will weed itself out,
won't it, when compared in the same space to the better?
Best,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Jennifer Boyer
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:23 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: jury standards for pottery
Hi Wayne,
I see your point but:
This is a hypothetical exercise, but an interesting one. There is a
person in VT who has her tiles in most of the best state galleries
and =20
paints on purchased tiles. Her slip painting is absolutely
beautiful. =20
It doesn't really bother me that she buys the tiles. She would have
to =20
make almost the exact shape that she is buying anyway. There are
also =20
some folks who paint wooden bowls that they buy. They are the
generic =20
wooden bowl shape. Both of them totally transform the bowls with
their =20
decoration, as does the tile maker. Somehow I would feel different
if I =20
saw someone buying a lines of dinnerware bisk and trying to sell it
in =20
a high end gallery no matter how good the decoration was....
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I need plenty of devils
advocates!
I guess I'm trying to see how you could institute jury guidelines
onto =20
a gallery that already has an existing exhibitor list....
Jennifer
On Aug 31, 2005, at 1:36 AM, Wayne Seidl wrote:
John Baymore on wed 31 aug 05
Jennifer,
Oh boy... here's a can of worms!
From my point of view this "forming method question" is more about
a "truth in advertising" issue than a real "jurying" issue............ and
here you get into that always controversial question of what
constitutes "hand made" . Since there is no legal definition (in the
USA, at least)....it is open to WIDE interpretation. To me this question
is not really a "jury standard"... which to me involves more issues of
quality of execution and craftspersonship and consideration of aesthetic
issues.
If a person walks into a gallery...and that gallery has gone to great
lengths to create the understanding with it's customers that the work is
all finely crafted handwork made by the artists themselves.... then an
expectation is created in the customer's mind. The customer of the shop
also will ASSUME that the gallery management has "done it's job" and is
actually providing what it says it is providing.
So now you get down to what the typical customer would expect in that type
of venue. If I am expecting a handmade piece made "hands-on" solely by
the artist themselves ....... it is POSSIBLE that I am thinking of certain
forming methods with which I may have had some contact. I think most
consumers are likely NOT that familiar with the practices of slip casting,
jiggering/jollying, extrusion, ram pressing, or off-shore contract
manufacturing within the "handcraft" field. They probably have
experiences in seeing hand throwing and hand building....and it is likely
that THIS is the image that they conjur up in their minds in a "handcraft
gallery".
If the price charged for the object is commensurate with that charged for
other "totally artist made" objects..... I think the expectations on the
genesis of the forming is even further reinforced.
So from my point of view..... there is a big difference in the expectation
created for a customer between a sign or a hangtag that says "Handmade by
Joe Potter" and one that says "Handpainted by Joe Potter" and one that
says "Designed by Joe Potter".
I think that it is fully appropriate in such galleries that if there is a
possible question about the genesis of the object's existance.... the
extent of the artist's involvement should be relatively explicitly stated
in some manner. "Handpained by....." or "Designed by......" might be
solutions to this stuff. Particualry if the object is deliberately formed
in a manner that hides or even disguises certain aspects of the forming
process.
I have no problem with the "workshop tradition" that is clearly well
established in places like Japan or in producing stuff like Dale
Chihully's work. I have pieces "by" folks like Shimaoka-sensei.... that I
KNOW are likely formed in part or fully by ....oh say.... Lee Love .
But it is again about the EXPECTATION of the viewer / buyer.
The "JURY" question I would ask is, "Would this object, presented in this
manner, in this particular venue, create an expectation in the average
person that will view it here that is DIFFERENT than the actual genesis of
the object?" If the answer to that question is "yes"..... then I think
that some ACTIVE steps need to be taken to ethically address the possible
discrepancy.
Because there are so many levels of possible type of production when
making work...... unfortunately the whole "definition" thing ends up
getting very "grey" .
best,
.................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
"Please use compuserve address for any direct communications."
lee love on wed 31 aug 05
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Boyer wrote:
> decoration, as does the tile maker. Somehow I would feel different
if I
> saw someone buying a lines of dinnerware bisk and trying to sell it
in
> a high end gallery no matter how good the decoration was....
I don't see much difference between
the two. Plates are
sort of the "tile" of functional ware.
I guess in both cases, it would depend upon the quality of
the decoration. Why would the same decoration on a tile be "less
worthy" on a plate? The main issue is that the artist must be
upfront about what they are doing and not hide the fact that they are
decorated other peoples' forms.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
" People say that what we are all seeking is meaning for life.
I think that what we're really seeking is an experience of being
alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will
have resonance within our innermost being and reality, so that we can
actually feel the rapture of being
alive."
- Joseph Campbell.
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