mel jacobson on tue 20 sep 05
i want to dip some pots into a thick/thick slip.
get almost a 3D affect.
i will be using both my own clay body, and a white.
some of this will find its way into our wood kiln this spring.
so.
this is an area that i have never explored.
i use a basic 25x4 alfred white.
high iron stoneware.
any ideas.??
thanks, mel
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
http://home.comcast.net/~figglywig/clayart.htm
for gail's year book.
L. P. Skeen on tue 20 sep 05
Mel,
This was done on one of the DIY Pottery Programs. Go to
http://www.diynet.net and look up Bil VanGilder's demo. It's very cool. I
did some after seeing that episode. He takes the claybody he's throwing and
runs it through a very fine sieve, and the consistency is in the
neighborhood of chocolate pudding. Dip the piece in the slip, then use
tools or fingers to make marks in the slip.
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
>i want to dip some pots into a thick/thick slip.
> get almost a 3D affect.
>
> i will be using both my own clay body, and a white.
>
> any ideas.??
Gene & Dolita Dohrman on tue 20 sep 05
Really now...here we go again. Did you check the archives before posting?
I am sure it is all there. This learned group simply does not have the time
to answer every mundane question from every beginner that discovers clayart.
Oh....it is you Mel... well, in that case.... I have no idea. ROTFLOL!
(This was tongue in cheek, people, so don't put out a hit on me!)
Love, Dolita
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: thick slip question
> i want to dip some pots into a thick/thick slip.
> get almost a 3D affect.
>
> i will be using both my own clay body, and a white.
>
> some of this will find its way into our wood kiln this spring.
> so.
>
> this is an area that i have never explored.
>
> i use a basic 25x4 alfred white.
>
> high iron stoneware.
>
> any ideas.??
> thanks, mel
>
> from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
> website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> http://home.comcast.net/~figglywig/clayart.htm
> for gail's year book.
>
>
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Rick Bonomo on tue 20 sep 05
Mel wrote
>> i use a basic 25x4 alfred white.=20
> > high iron stoneware
I'm interested to know exactly what that 25X4 alfred white is
Perhaps it's time to review the venerable Daniel-san's recipes from his =
Clay and Glazes book: (1957, 1973)
http://www.ricks-bricks.com/images/engobeslip.jpg
I was using the cone 6-11 over dry body and it didn't mature adequately =
at bisque 06-04
At Pat Southwoods advice (below)
I switched to 1/2 Kaolin 1/2 Ball Clay which is great:
nice bright white after bisque : =
http://www.ricks-bricks.com/images/SlipBisqueRiceBowl.jpg
and behaves under extreme conditions: =
http://www.ricks-bricks.com/images/complicatedred.jpg
Is Daniel Rhodes still among the living?
Rick Bonomo
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:09:01 +0100
From: Pat Southwood
Subject: ancient slip formula
Rick,
It's coming off because it's only half cooked
You have got stuff in there that hasn't melted
It sounds more like an engobe that would mature at stoneware temps.
A very easy white slip recipe is;
one cup full of china clay
one cup full of ball clay.
It might not fit your clay body, but it has fitted every body I have =
ever used.
I would go mad if I had to faff about with that much stuff in a slip!
Best wishes,
Pat Southwood.
Mel's whole post:
i want to dip some pots into a thick/thick slip.
get almost a 3D affect.
i will be using both my own clay body, and a white.
some of this will find its way into our wood kiln this spring.
this is an area that i have never explored.
i use a basic 25x4 alfred white.
high iron stoneware.
any ideas.??
thanks, mel
Tony Ferguson on tue 20 sep 05
Rick,
The best and I mean the best slip I have ever and continue to use is made from the coleman porcelain available through Aardvark. If you order a 50 pound box--it will last you for a very very long time--and it sticks to ANYTHING because of the plasticizer. I've put this on leather hard porcelain with no problems.
Tony Ferguson
Tony Ferguson
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
fergy@cpinternet.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Craig Martell on tue 20 sep 05
mel wanted to know:
>any ideas.??
Hello mel:
Sure, lots of ideas. But what kind of ideas are you wanting? Aesthetic,
technical, all of the above?
One thing I can tell you for sure is that you WILL get a 3d thing
happening. It's impossible to avoid. You've already received some good
advice about using the same or a similar body for thicker slips. This will
usually avoid application problems like cracking and shelling. Crackle is
nice sometimes but you don't want any shelling or peeling away of the slip
from the pot. You can cut the added water by using Darvan if you want or
you can calcine some of the clay too if you have any problems. Thick slips
will bring out all of the problems associated with non compatible shrinkage
between clay and slip. If the slip is shrinking a lot more than the pot
you'll get the crackle thing happening. If the pot is shrinking more than
the slip you'll get shelling. Both are very easy to fix with some testing
and adjusting of the slips. You can add or reduce certain materials to
change the shrinkage or just try Darvan or calcine.
Thick slips are really nice to try different texture tools with. I've used
all kinds of sawtooth wood and metal ribs, shaving brushes, textured
sponges, stiff paint brushes, fingers, ad infinitum. The only thing I
haven't done yet if figure out how to incorporate this sort of work into
what I'm doing now.
Let us know how it's going. We're interested in your development. 8>)
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Earl Krueger on wed 21 sep 05
It's all Mel's fault, he started this.
I made up a thick slip from my claybody(s),
by slaking dried turnings in water. I then
loaded it into a squeeze bottle (horseradish),
and squirted some out onto wet pots.
The slip didn't crack or fall off but where
I stopped squeezing it pulled up into sharp
points like the top of a soft-serve ice cream
cone. Great if I were making prickly-pear
cactus or porcupine Objay's Day Art, but not
so good for comfort items you hold in your hands.
All three ^6 claybodies I used reacted the same
(porcelain, white and red).
So, was my slip floc'd or defloc'ed?
And would it make a difference if I reversed that?
--
Earl Krueger
Rob on wed 21 sep 05
Mel,
I get great thick body slips by drying out my claybody, then throwing peices
of it into a blender with some water and a golf-ball sized chunk of plastic
clay...not a set amount of water, I just play it by ear. I run it on pulse
for about 30 seconds, enough to break down most of the chunks, then let it
sit and hydrate real well for 30 minutes or so. Then I run it at liquify
for about a minute. If it seems TOO thick, then I add a little water and
run it again. If it seems too thin, I add a little more dried clay, then
repeat the proccess. The plastic clay seems to help the slip stay in
suspension and maintain a smooth texture - I always have problems if I leave
it out.
After I get it to a nice, smooth consistency, I strain it through an 80-mesh
seive to remove sand, grog, and other large bits. The end result is almost
the consistency of cake batter, and sometimes I will dry it on top if the
kiln to the consistency of icing. You can do all sorts of textural things
with this slip.
Incidentally, I've done the same thing with pure grolleg. In the wood kiln
it flashed bright orange - very nice.
Rob Van Rens
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: thick slip question
>i want to dip some pots into a thick/thick slip.
> get almost a 3D affect.
>
> i will be using both my own clay body, and a white.
>
> some of this will find its way into our wood kiln this spring.
> so.
>
> this is an area that i have never explored.
>
> i use a basic 25x4 alfred white.
>
> high iron stoneware.
>
> any ideas.??
> thanks, mel
>
> from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
> website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> http://home.comcast.net/~figglywig/clayart.htm
> for gail's year book.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
John Britt on wed 21 sep 05
Adding a deflocculant will reduce the cracking (if you get any) as it is
like super saturating the slip. I, then, add dried scraps to thicken.
Best,
John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com
Ron Roy on thu 22 sep 05
Hi Mel,
This looks like a good place to start - it will probably crack as it dries
so you need to deflocc it - keep in mind vinegar and epsom both flocculate
- not good!
I use Darvan #7 - some will say soda ash and/or sodium silicate - I like
the Darvan cause it is forgiving.
It's messy to do the first defloccing but what you need to know is how much
Darvan and how much water - so it will be easy to do next time.
Start with a cup of dry mix the slip as thick as you can - keep track of
how much water you use - start adding Darvan a drop at a time - keep track
of the drops.
Be mixing as you add the Darvan - and give it a little time (10 min) to get
working.
The slip will thin out eventually - add more powder mix - mix in well till
the slip is thick again - add more Darvan keeping track of the drops - add
more dry - then more Darvan. Eventually you will get to a point when adding
more darvan will not thin the slip anymore.
You now will have a thick slip which will not crack as it dries - and you
will know how much water and Darvan to add to each cup of dry mix you do
later.
I like the idea of using a ball clay type porcelain for the base - no
chance of winding up with a lot of cristobalite in the final product.
RR
>this is a standard white/porcelain recipe.
>pounds, volume, percent.
>
>25 epk
>25 silica
>25 feldspar
>25 ball clay
>
>this is one of those theories that drive purists nuts.
>atomic weights etc change....but, in the long run
>you can almost always get a nice white high temp
>body with this theory.
>it is very white.
>and, throws well.
>
>if you are fussy....do the percent thing.
>
>i make it by adding an ice cream pail of each into
>a large container. add water...mix.
>makes a great slip. seems to stick to most semi wet surfaces.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ron Roy on thu 22 sep 05
Hi Earl,
I would think it's flocced - and thats OK cause it's going on wet clay and
the shrikages are compatible,
If you put it on leather hard you might get some cracking - then you would
deflocc.
I used to do a lot of slip decor on leather hard porcelain - when I started
defloccing the cracking stopped.
RR
>It's all Mel's fault, he started this.
>
>I made up a thick slip from my claybody(s),
>by slaking dried turnings in water. I then
>loaded it into a squeeze bottle (horseradish),
>and squirted some out onto wet pots.
>
>The slip didn't crack or fall off but where
>I stopped squeezing it pulled up into sharp
>points like the top of a soft-serve ice cream
>cone. Great if I were making prickly-pear
>cactus or porcupine Objay's Day Art, but not
>so good for comfort items you hold in your hands.
>
>All three ^6 claybodies I used reacted the same
>(porcelain, white and red).
>
>So, was my slip floc'd or defloc'ed?
>And would it make a difference if I reversed that?
>
>--
>Earl Krueger
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
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