Al Strauss on sat 1 oct 05
Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon tools?
Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
Thanx
Randall Moody on mon 3 oct 05
I have had good luck with a small jewelers file. Just make sure you keep th=
e
angle correct.
On 10/1/05, Al Strauss wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon tools=
?
> Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
>
> Thanx
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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>
Antoinette Badenhorst on mon 3 oct 05
My experience is it is not really worth it. Did you see my posting on =
tools
before? Hopefully I will have something in America not too far in future =
for
you to try out.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Al Strauss
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:02 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Sharpening Ribbon Tools
Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon =
tools?
Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
Thanx
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
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Hank Murrow on mon 3 oct 05
On Oct 1, 2005, at 10:02 AM, Al Strauss wrote:
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon
> tools?
> Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
DEar Al;
I used to use a sharpening stone meant for fish hooks, until I finally
ponied up the $$ for a Bison loop tool. I got 7000 pots out of it
before sending it back to Phil for tuning up. They require more care in
handling because of their brittle nature(Tungsten Carbide is a
crystal).
Email Phil @ Philip
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Bruce Girrell on mon 3 oct 05
> Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon tools?
> Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
I don't find the steel used in the Kemper tools to be worth sharpening. But
the Dolan tools use a much better grade of steel and I definitely find them
worth resharpening.
I use a small belt sander. They are frequently seen sold as a combo unit
with a 5 inch dia. disk sander on one side and a 1 inch wide belt on the
other side like this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006K000/ref=hi_de_a_smp/103
-4479178-9149419?v=glance&s=hi&n=1000&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures (you
may have to cut and paste to make the URL work). They are fairly
inexpensive. I think I paid $65 at Home Depot. I generally use a 220 grit
belt. Use a high quality belt or you'll end up spending all your money on
sanding belts instead of new loop tools.
The belt has a metal backing plate near the table that helps form a straight
edge, but it is also useful to work in the area above the backing plate when
you are sharpening a curved portion of the tool.
All standard sharpening rules apply: keep a constant angle, don't let the
steel get too hot, use light pressure, etc.
I can get at least five resharpenings out of most Dolans. The main trick is
not to let the tool get too dull before resharpening (applies to all edge
tools).
Bruce "sometimes sharper than others" Girrell
Vince Pitelka on mon 3 oct 05
Using a sharpening stone to re-sharpen a trimming tool is the slow way to
go, but you have a lot of control, so it might be the best method for some
people. I have always re-sharpened my ribbon tools, whether cheap Kempers
or good Dolans. I use a fine wheel on a good bench grinder with a properly
adjusted tool rest (as close as possible to the wheel surface without
actually touching). Have a cup of water close by, and quench the tip every
time the metal starts to change color - that will retain the hardness. Even
with a fine wheel, grinding will happen fast, so use a light touch.
Practice the movement required to grind around the corner of a square-end
tool, and then do it with one sure, gentle move, so as not to remove too
much metal. I used to sharpen those tools three or four times until they
finally just wore all the way through.
But yes, as Hank said, the best solution would be to just get a tungsten
carbide Bison loop tool from Phil Poburka. Hank takes a big utility sponge
and cuts a slit partway through with a razor knife. He uses this as a
holder for his tools, poking the business end of the tool into the slot. If
you develop the habit where the tool ALWAYS goes back into the slot every
time you set it down, then it will never roll off your tool tray and shatter
on the floor.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
steve graber on mon 3 oct 05
i sometimes use a bent knife as a ribon tool. i bought it initially from someone who cleans horse feet, horse shoes. common tool in their world. works for clay too. MUCH stronger then kemper tools & seems like a lifetime size as well.
~ never needs sharpening!
see ya
steve
Vince Pitelka wrote:
Using a sharpening stone to re-sharpen a trimming tool is the slow way to
go, but you have a lot of control, so it might be the best method for some
people. I have always re-sharpened my ribbon tools, whether cheap Kempers
or good Dolans. I use a fine wheel on a good bench grinder with a properly
adjusted tool rest (as close as possible to the wheel surface without
actually touching). Have a cup of water close by, and quench the tip every
time the metal starts to change color - that will retain the hardness. Even
with a fine wheel, grinding will happen fast, so use a light touch.
Practice the movement required to grind around the corner of a square-end
tool, and then do it with one sure, gentle move, so as not to remove too
much metal. I used to sharpen those tools three or four times until they
finally just wore all the way through.
But yes, as Hank said, the best solution would be to just get a tungsten
carbide Bison loop tool from Phil Poburka. Hank takes a big utility sponge
and cuts a slit partway through with a razor knife. He uses this as a
holder for his tools, poking the business end of the tool into the slot. If
you develop the habit where the tool ALWAYS goes back into the slot every
time you set it down, then it will never roll off your tool tray and shatter
on the floor.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
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Gordon Ward on mon 3 oct 05
Al,
A ribbon grinder (sander) is a great tool to have around not only for
sharpening trimming tools, but your kitchen knives and many other
things. I bought one that accepts a 1 inch wide by 42 inch belt at a
garage sale for $35 and used it for 25 years before I decided to buy a
fancier (quieter) one. You have great control with them and can put a
fine edge on a trimming tool in about a minute. If you want your tools
really sharp, this is the way to go. It's what knife makers use. The
more expensive trimming tools will generally hold an edge longer.
Gordon
> On Oct 1, 2005, at 10:02 AM, Al Strauss wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon
>> tools?
>> Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
Chris Schafale on mon 3 oct 05
See also http://www.bisonstudios.com
At 10:29 AM 10/03/2005, you wrote:
>On Oct 1, 2005, at 10:02 AM, Al Strauss wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon
>>tools?
>>Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
>
>DEar Al;
>
>I used to use a sharpening stone meant for fish hooks, until I finally
>ponied up the $$ for a Bison loop tool. I got 7000 pots out of it
>before sending it back to Phil for tuning up. They require more care in
>handling because of their brittle nature(Tungsten Carbide is a
>crystal).
>
>Email Phil @ Philip
>
>Cheers, Hank
>www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Darin Gehrke on tue 4 oct 05
When mt ribbon tools get a little dull I use a grinding wheel to sharpen them. Eventually they
will have to be replaced after a few sharpenings.
Darin
Alyssa Ettinger on wed 5 oct 05
i think i'm going to have to splurge and get me one of the fancy ones; i go
through the kemper ones every month or so, they just wear down till there's
nothing...
Kathy Forer on thu 6 oct 05
Emery cloth is terrific for honing an edge. Mainly intended for
deburring, a piece of emery on a flat surface is also good for
sharpening thin or small tools.
It works really well, try it!
Kathy
--
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
Snail Scott on sun 9 oct 05
At 01:02 PM 10/1/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to sharpen dull ribbon tools?
A big flat file works best for me. Power
tools tend to be overkill. A fine-grit
grinding wheel will work if you already
have one, but be gentle. I wouldn't buy
one just for this, though.
>Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
Not a waste of time, IMO. Even those cheap-ass
Kemper tools have a lot of life in them once
re-sharpened, and it's sad to chuck one out
just because a small area of the 'business end'
is dull.
-Snail
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 9 oct 05
Well, this depends somewhat, on whether the Ribbon Tool, or Loop Tool has an
inside bevel and outside flat, or, an outside bevel and an inside flat, and,
on the particular material it is
made of.
Since those kinds of Loop Tools one may wish to resharpen are
usually made of one or another kind of mild Steel, these may be sharpened
easily enough by hand.
If soft enough to be sharpened by a decent File, then of course a half-round
File or at least one whose section represents some portion of a circle or
curve either on one or both sides, would be elected for sharpening the
inside bevel of the (usually curved in some way) Loop. While a flat File
would be reached for for
sharpening the outside of the loop whether the outside has the bevel or not.
Likely, some decent grade 'Swiss' pattern so called 'Needle Files' or small
sized ones anyway, would be good for most mild Steel inside beveled Loops.
It is important to keep the bevel "flat" and the 'flat' side flat, and not
to grind or File either to
become at all rounded.
Many of these Tools have poor bevels or edge geometry when new, for that
matter, so their initial appearance should not be assumed to be optimum or
per-se to be emulated when re-sharpening. A flat bevel will cut best. The
cutting edge in other words should be the intersection or convergence of two
flat planes.
Some Loop Tools, being made of a tempered Steel, may be too hard for
convenient re-sharpening with a File, or, may be unevenly hard or unevenly
tempered so that some areas of them are soft enough for the File to bite,
while other areas of them the File will slide as if on glass and not get a
bite. These would then be dealt with either with abrasive various profiles
of abrasive Stones and protracted tedium, or be taken to visit the Belt
Sander or
Grinding Wheel or hi-speed Arbor.
The Belt Sander or Grinding Wheel of course may not address an inside bevel,
but will only be able to address an outside flat or outside bevel Loop.
Small hi-speed Arbors such as the 'Dremel' or 'Foredom' or any of various
other so called
Die Grinders may be used to dress or re-sharpen inside flats or inside
bevels when fitted with suitable narrow Burrs or abrasive Stones.
If one does not have a stationary Belt Sander, one may use a conventional
hand held kind of Belt Sander by clamping it in a vice or secureing it in
some other way so it is upside down and the Belt is horizontal,
or, so that the whole if vertical and the belt is running 'down' in a
vertical mode rather as a miniature Stationary Machine would have it. A fine
grit Belt would be a good idea.
Keeping the Tool cool while sharpening may be done by making light passes
and quenching in a convenienely placed cup of Soapy Water, and or holding a
small soapy Water saturated Sponge on the Tool end itself while
sharpening-sanding-grinding.
A Bench Grinder of course may also be used, and likely the side of the Wheel
rather than the periphery, would be best elected.
One may also make quite good abrasive sharpening 'Sticks' or Sanding Sticks,
by
glueing abrasive paper to slender lengths of suitably shaped Wood or other
slender material. These
slender lengths of Wood (or as may be ) may also be half-round or shaped as
one wishes.
3M 'Super 77' is a very nice aerosol adhesive for this use.
And Silicon Carbide Abrasive Paper, sold widely for many applications is my
own prefered choice for anything in the way of abrasive papers generally.
One simply sprays the adhesive on the side of the stick one wants to have
the abrasive paper on, and lays the stick then onto the back side of the
paper, massaging it for a nice fit especially if the stick is half
round...and after letting it dry a few moments, one cuts off the excess with
a single-edge Razor Blade from the back side of the paper.
One sheet of such paper can make several or many such 'sticks' and the
sticks may also of course have the abrasive paper on more than one side if
one wishes. One may make rectangular sectioned sticks, triangular or
paralellagram sectioned ones or curved face ones, round ones and so on.
These are handy for many tasks in Wood Working and many other occupations as
well.
Soapy Water or WD40 may be used with these when sharpening mild Steel Tools
as these kinds of abrasive papers are intended to be worked 'wet'.
Probably, for that matter, one could make a special Bat to overhang the
Wheel Head, or, or for a smaller diameter one, then elevated somehow, to at
least offer a
crisp 90 degree or less than 90 degree angle of crisp edge to use, and to
glue onto it the abrasive Paper and do one's sundry sharpenings on it with
the soapy Water being of no concern.
Trimming Tools made of Tungsten Carbide should be sharpened on liquid cooled
hi-speed Diamond Wheels.
Have fun...
Phil
Las Vegas
The Bedfords on sun 9 oct 05
>Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
I've recently discovered this trick of getting more mileage from a ribbon
tool.
When the rounded end of a Kemper tool wears all the way through, breaks
apart and becomes a lethal weapon, this is what I do.
After snipping off one of the 'prongs', I take my needle nose pliers and
bend the remaining one into a small loop shape.
It's a previously unused part of the ribbon tool that is now doing the
trimming.
Regards,
Lee Bedford
Canyon Creek Pottery
Golden, B.C.
Bryan Hannis on mon 10 oct 05
Your potters wheel works very nice for sharpening, just glue a piece of
sand paper to a bat.
Bryan Hannis
Alyssa Ettinger on mon 10 oct 05
lee,
i can't believe i didn't think of this... i'm bringing my toolbox to my
studio tomorrow to fix those deadly tools.
a
www.alyssaettinger.com
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:33:42 -0600, The Bedfords
wrote:
>>Or is it a waste of time and I should just toss and replace?
>
>I've recently discovered this trick of getting more mileage from a ribbon
>tool.
>
>When the rounded end of a Kemper tool wears all the way through, breaks
>apart and becomes a lethal weapon, this is what I do.
>After snipping off one of the 'prongs', I take my needle nose pliers and
>bend the remaining one into a small loop shape.
>It's a previously unused part of the ribbon tool that is now doing the
>trimming.
>
>Regards,
>
>Lee Bedford
>Canyon Creek Pottery
>Golden, B.C.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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