Alyssa Ettinger on thu 13 oct 05
Honestly, this is embarrassing to post... but where else to post it?
I'm a really competent thrower, but I can't throw a plate bigger than a
bread plate to save my life. I'm using porcelain, cone 6, and bats...
whatever I do, I can't seem to get the clay down flat enough against the
bat. When I try to expand and make the plate flatter, it gets all ripple-y
and won't behave.
Obviously, I am doing something very wrong. I've tried pushing the centered
ball down with my fist, and then using said side of fist to pull the clay
outward. It's making me feel angry; this should be a hard skill to
re-master, after all i did it a lot 20 years ago, in college.
(And I would love to go to Michaud's workshop, but am not in the
geographical vicinity...)
Help is greatly appreciated!
-alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
Fredrick Paget on thu 13 oct 05
>I recently discovered, by accident, Steve's method of throwing a
>wide-bottomed bowl and opening the sides slowly to form a large plate.
>.....
>Paula Mann
>Fort Collins, CO
That is the way Stephen Jepson taught me and I think he learned it
from Margurite Wildenhain.
--
From Fred Paget,
Marin County, CA, USA
fredrick@well.com
Charter Member Potters Council
Tom at Hutchtel.net on thu 13 oct 05
Hi Alyssa,
Keep trying...it'll finally come. What I do to get the "pancake" flattened:
I use 3.5 to 4 lbs of clay for a 10.5" plate....thrown initially to 12 " and
shrinks to 10.5. Clay should be moderately soft, definitely not stiff. Too
soft and the rim will be a problem later.
Center normally and leave the mound 6 or 7 inches across. The final part of
this is done with the outside edge (little finger side) of the hand, fingers
extended, finger tips curled to tighten up the hand muscles.
Then extend the fingers and hold them with the left hand so you can use that
outside edge again, this time like a rib. Start in the center with the
little finger base joint and use that joint kind of like a finger to roll a
small ridge of clay outward. Near the outside lift your hand leaving some
of the ridge. Do this several times to get the basic diameter. Now you can
go back in and smooth the center ( I usually backthrow it a few times (move
from the outside to the center) to compress the bottom). When the bottom
is mostly to your liking, go to work on the rim.
If clay is especially stiff, and sometimes on large platters, I literally
hook my toes under the cart/tables on either side of the wheel to get power
to spread the ball of clay (and I weigh 220 lbs). You might even try
standing if your lighter in weight and don't have a table you can use.
Good luck.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alyssa Ettinger"
Subject: Need help with throwing plates
> I'm a really competent thrower, but I can't throw a plate bigger than a
> bread plate to save my life. I'm using porcelain, cone 6, and bats...
> whatever I do, I can't seem to get the clay down flat enough against the
> bat. When I try to expand and make the plate flatter, it gets all ripple-y
> and won't behave.
steve graber on thu 13 oct 05
don't make plates that way! or work out other methods...
i make plates by making wide bowls & continue opening the walls down into a plate. stop short becuase they will continue to unfold during the firing.
use the wide foot or foundation, use a wide cylinder. bend the cylinder walls outward into the plate.
see ya
steve
Alyssa Ettinger wrote:Honestly, this is embarrassing to post... but where else to post it?
I'm a really competent thrower, but I can't throw a plate bigger than a
bread plate to save my life. I'm using porcelain, cone 6, and bats...
whatever I do, I can't seem to get the clay down flat enough against the
bat. When I try to expand and make the plate flatter, it gets all ripple-y
and won't behave.
Obviously, I am doing something very wrong. I've tried pushing the centered
ball down with my fist, and then using said side of fist to pull the clay
outward. It's making me feel angry; this should be a hard skill to
re-master, after all i did it a lot 20 years ago, in college.
(And I would love to go to Michaud's workshop, but am not in the
geographical vicinity...)
Help is greatly appreciated!
-alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
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lela martens on thu 13 oct 05
Hi Michael,
I checked out your clip, also do similar with plates. But could you describe
that
tool that helps rise the lip? I often get a `wrinkle` . I do that stage
carefully
with the wheel going quite slow,
but ...
thanks from Lela
>Check out my video clip at:
>http://www.wendtpottery.com/workshop.htm
>I have developed a simple way to make plates
>that will work for most people.
>Check out the clip to see the main step.
>Regards,
>Michael Wendt
>
Michael Wendt on thu 13 oct 05
Alyssa,
Check out my video clip at:
http://www.wendtpottery.com/workshop.htm
I have developed a simple way to make plates
that will work for most people.
Check out the clip to see the main step.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Steve Slatin on thu 13 oct 05
Alyssa --
Others have given their opinions already, but let me
suggest something simple ... that rippley, washboard,
irregular, won't-do-what-I'm-telling-it-to-do effect?
I get it when the clay is insufficiently moist and I'm
going too fast at the same time, and it tends to start
at about 4" from the center of the plate. I just slow
down and get some more of that gooey slip onto the
plate and all is well again.
Then again, maybe I'm all wet.
Best wishes -- Steve S.
--- Alyssa Ettinger wrote:
> Honestly, this is embarrassing to post... but where
> else to post it?
>
> I'm a really competent thrower, but I can't throw a
> plate bigger than a
> bread plate to save my life. I'm using porcelain,
> cone 6, and bats...
> whatever I do, I can't seem to get the clay down
> flat enough against the
> bat. When I try to expand and make the plate
> flatter, it gets all ripple-y
> and won't behave.
Steve Slatin --
Drove downtown in the rain
9:30 on a Tuesday night
Just to check out the
Late night record shop
__________________________________
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Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on thu 13 oct 05
Dear Alyssa,
is the clay soft enough. Your description seems to me to point in that =
direction, and as some porcelain's can be notoriously unplastic, it =
could be to do with proper kneading and wedging of the clay allied with =
getting it as soft as you can.
happy potting Marek www.no9uk.com www.moley.uk.com
Paula Mann on thu 13 oct 05
I recently discovered, by accident, Steve's method of throwing a
wide-bottomed bowl and opening the sides slowly to form a large plate.
I had decided to forget about throwing plates because I hated the muscle it
took to open them and I really hated trimming away (seemingly) as much clay
as I'd started with. The bottoms always seemed to warp, too, because I must
have had the physics wrong.
This new bowl/plate method has allowed me to throw bigger plates (14" before
firing) with 3.5-4 lbs. of clay with little or no trimming.
I haven't fired any yet...sure hope I'm not in for any big surprises!
Paula Mann
Fort Collins, CO
Alyssa Ettinger on fri 14 oct 05
ok, so in the "throw the bowl" method, starting with the cylinder (how i
throw my bowls anyway), you make it bigger and bigger... are you actually
letting the walls move downward toward the bat and and you extend it out the
walls become part of the bottom of the pot? i tried this today and it was a
small disaster, but i will try again.
as for softness vs. hardness, my clay tends to be on the softer side, and i
throw with a lot of water.
since i'm going to be making plates that are going to have carved/textural
designs on them, i'm thinking that perhaps a press-mold might be the answer.
NOT that i should learn to throw plates, but for this project it might be
easier and faster, and they will be more consistent in size.
thanks for your help, will keep you posted.
alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
Bonnie Staffel on fri 14 oct 05
You might try my method of throwing with slabs. It is effortless and
you can make as large a plate as you have a wide bat. The process is
shown on my Throwing with Slabs and Coils video offered on my website.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
lee love on fri 14 oct 05
Alyssa,
One of the specialites of my teacher and his students are plates.
My teacher keeps different sizes and inlay on a table next to the
gas kiln where he bisques. They are stacked maybe 25 or 30 high,
maybe 3 dozen different designs. They are used as fillers for the
kiln. If I ever get ahead, I want to do the same: bisque plates
don't take up a lot of space so you can store a bunch to use to fill
space in a glaze firing.
The method I was taught and part of the reason for the method,
was to give the thrown plate enough thickness and strentgth to stand
up to the rope impression, was to throw thick, right up to the lip,
and then trim the back of the plate all the way to the lip. This
helps the plate keep its shape, especially if you are going to stamp
or do rope impression.
Also, you need to make a little more curve than you want the
final plate to be, because the curve will lay down a little in the
drying and firing.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"To the ambitious for whom neither the bounty of life nor the beauty
of the world suffice to content,it comes as penance that life with
them is squandered and that they posses neither the benefits nor the
beauty of the world. And if they are unable to perceive what is divine
in Nature which is all around them, how will they be able to see their
own divinity, which is sometimes hidden." - Leonardo Da Vinci
Good luck!
Alyssa Ettinger on fri 14 oct 05
looks like i have a lot of methods to try out next week. (i can get to them
because the 40+ pots i threw this week are still so wet from the driving
rain we've had i can't even go near them to trim them.)
alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
claybair on fri 14 oct 05
Last year or so was my plate making lesson
Bonnie's method is what I wound up using...
it's fast & easy on the wrists.
Thanks Bonnie!
This year's lesson..... mugs......am getting there!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bonnie Staffel
You might try my method of throwing with slabs. It is effortless and
you can make as large a plate as you have a wide bat. The process is
shown on my Throwing with Slabs and Coils video offered on my website.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
____________________________________________________________________________
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Michael Wendt on fri 14 oct 05
Lela,
The most common reason for the ripple is inadequate clay preparation. The
soft and hard sections yield at different rates resulting in ripples. Check
the archives for a description of the stack and slam wedging method. I am
currently writing an article about this method complete with photos and hope
that one of the pottery magazines will publish it as I think it will solve a
lot of problems for people who don't have pug mills in their studios.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Hi Michael,
I checked out your clip, also do similar with plates. But could you describe
that
tool that helps rise the lip? I often get a `wrinkle` . I do that stage
carefully
with the wheel going quite slow,
but ...
thanks from Lela
steve graber on fri 14 oct 05
when i throw wide bowls & coax them into plates i think of it as folding the walls of the bowl open or down into a plate. the foot region doesn't move much. the tops of the bowl are stretched open more & more.
and all bowl work into a plate is from the top to the bottom. it's very tempting to go from bottom up to the top but what this does is kick the bottom of the walls off the foundation & the bowl colapses or otherwise gets those woop-d-doo's at the bottom foot region.
i do vases from bottom to top.
and i don't touch the outside of the pots until trimming.
see ya
steve
Alyssa Ettinger wrote:
ok, so in the "throw the bowl" method, starting with the cylinder (how i
throw my bowls anyway), you make it bigger and bigger... are you actually
letting the walls move downward toward the bat and and you extend it out the
walls become part of the bottom of the pot? i tried this today and it was a
small disaster, but i will try again.
as for softness vs. hardness, my clay tends to be on the softer side, and i
throw with a lot of water.
since i'm going to be making plates that are going to have carved/textural
designs on them, i'm thinking that perhaps a press-mold might be the answer.
NOT that i should learn to throw plates, but for this project it might be
easier and faster, and they will be more consistent in size.
thanks for your help, will keep you posted.
alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
lela martens on sat 15 oct 05
Yes, that makes sense. I will pay more attention, not having a pugmill
either.
Is the tool used an angled stick thing? The nail on my right thumb is
wearing down..
I don`t use tools much in the throwing stage. I hope you let us know where
to look
for your article when the time comes.
Thanks!
Lela
>
>Lela,
>The most common reason for the ripple is inadequate clay preparation. The
>soft and hard sections yield at different rates resulting in ripples. Check
>the archives for a description of the stack and slam wedging method. I am
>currently writing an article about this method complete with photos and
>hope
>that one of the pottery magazines will publish it as I think it will solve
>a
>lot of problems for people who don't have pug mills in their studios.
>Regards,
>>Hi Michael,
>
>I checked out your clip, also do similar with plates. But could you
>describe
>that
>tool that helps rise the lip? I often get a `wrinkle` . I do that stage
>carefully
>with the wheel going quite slow,
>but ...
>thanks from Lela
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