Paul B on fri 21 oct 05
I do mostly wholesale and up until now always seem to find new places to
sell to a little faster than the old ones go out of business, but i have a
feeling this will change next year. So many of the galleries i sell to have
been saying for years that sales are slow, and that was even before the
price of oil doubled. Now they are heading into this year's holiday
shopping season with inflation climbing rapidly and oil prices at a near
all-time high with another major hurricane just about to wipe out a bunch
more of oil refineries and no doubt cause sharp price increases at the pump.
Just this week i had two galleries actually cancel thier holiday season
orders with simply because they don't have space for any more merchandise
because sales are so slow. One of them was on my B list but the other was
more or less on my A list as they have an excellent location and have sold
my pottery very fast. But they they started carrying a lot of ultra-high
end ceramic art and did not order as often from me anymore, who knows maybe
that will change now if they can make it through these hard times.
One way or another i will get by and i have all kinds of ways to keep my
expenses down like running both my van and my kiln on waste veg oil, but i
can't help but think this is the year when all these stores that have been
saying for years how slow things are going will finally just close up shop
for good. Don't get me wrong, i see stores close every year but i think
this is the big one.
The conclusion i have drawn after 4 years in the wholesale gift ware/craft
gallery scene is that, although it works fine for me and i plan to continue
as long as there are stores left to sell to, the basic fact is that it is
not a very profitable business to buy and re-sell hand made crafts. The
stores that really make a good profit off of it are the exceptions rather
than the rule and the overwhelming majority of these places stay around
less than 5 years if that.
Pretty soon i will be going full speed ahead on my website and i think that
will eventually replace the need to even bother wholesaling to more than a
handfull of the best galleries i deal with, so i am not so much concerned
about my own financial well being.
It makes wonder what kind of future there is for studio potters who make
most or all of their income from pottery, when you consider that craft
shows are about as downhill as they could be and now it seems like the
entire wholesale market is going the same direction.
I don't mean to be pessimistic here, just wondering if anyone will come
forward and prove me wrong. Please feel free to do so!
thanks,
Paul
steve graber on fri 21 oct 05
i'm certainly not in the same boat as you, but years back i lost my "day job" and did pottery to pay the bills for 2 years. (1994 - engineering took a bust). JUST before i got another job in 1995 i thought of selling vases (with lids) to mortuaries for cremation urns. the diversity of regular art shows & mortuaries seemed like a viable business plan. ~ even today with china certainly involved i think there's a good market for studeo pottery & creamation urns.
i sold several urns to local mortuaries. i sold them for $75 each & i thought that was good. they confessed & told me that their market sells NOTHING for under $150! ~ and everything available to them looked like "dead guy inside" type work. my vases looked like a basic vase - not so morbid.
i found that mortuaries run on a franchise basis - be aware of that if you pursue it. you'll have to talk to the home franchise which seemed like they were all in texas. batesvile castkets is the world leader in supplying this stuff. selling straight to them sure makes production easier. they distribute around the world.
i found i MISSED the california state mortuary trade show (a real UP event i'm sure) by 3 months. that would have been a good show to be in to launch the business line. check with your state. the show price was cheaper then high end art shows. check with neighbor states.
i found that for the state of california the rules for creamated people are 220 cubic inch "durable" containers (about a gallon). "durable" never was defined but mortuaries told me the intent was to not send grandma home in tupperware or a paper bag...
the mortuaries told me that 1/2 of all the people who die go home in a jar. for some asians, the whole family gets some portion, so that means one dead person equals several jars.
chase down that market. there is no special season for when people die.
my wife wants to be a glaze when the time comes.
don't shy away from this - it's a fact of life & it's a viable market. production ware looks bad for the nobility of having a relative rest in a special place be it at home, or in a cript.
see ya
steve
Paul B wrote:
I do mostly wholesale and up until now always seem to find new places to
sell to a little faster than the old ones go out of business, but i have a
feeling this will change next year. So many of the galleries i sell to have
been saying for years that sales are slow, and that was even before the
price of oil doubled. Now they are heading into this year's holiday
shopping season with inflation climbing rapidly and oil prices at a near
all-time high with another major hurricane just about to wipe out a bunch
more of oil refineries and no doubt cause sharp price increases at the pump.
Just this week i had two galleries actually cancel thier holiday season
orders with simply because they don't have space for any more merchandise
because sales are so slow. One of them was on my B list but the other was
more or less on my A list as they have an excellent location and have sold
my pottery very fast. But they they started carrying a lot of ultra-high
end ceramic art and did not order as often from me anymore, who knows maybe
that will change now if they can make it through these hard times.
One way or another i will get by and i have all kinds of ways to keep my
expenses down like running both my van and my kiln on waste veg oil, but i
can't help but think this is the year when all these stores that have been
saying for years how slow things are going will finally just close up shop
for good. Don't get me wrong, i see stores close every year but i think
this is the big one.
The conclusion i have drawn after 4 years in the wholesale gift ware/craft
gallery scene is that, although it works fine for me and i plan to continue
as long as there are stores left to sell to, the basic fact is that it is
not a very profitable business to buy and re-sell hand made crafts. The
stores that really make a good profit off of it are the exceptions rather
than the rule and the overwhelming majority of these places stay around
less than 5 years if that.
Pretty soon i will be going full speed ahead on my website and i think that
will eventually replace the need to even bother wholesaling to more than a
handfull of the best galleries i deal with, so i am not so much concerned
about my own financial well being.
It makes wonder what kind of future there is for studio potters who make
most or all of their income from pottery, when you consider that craft
shows are about as downhill as they could be and now it seems like the
entire wholesale market is going the same direction.
I don't mean to be pessimistic here, just wondering if anyone will come
forward and prove me wrong. Please feel free to do so!
thanks,
Paul
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Antoinette Badenhorst on sat 22 oct 05
Do you think it is the whole craft industry? According to Craft magazine
metalwork for 2004 averaged $110 000. Glass came in second. Clay was =
much
further down the line. Garden stuff is in high demand right now. How =
does
potters that do huge fountains, wall and garden sculptures experience =
the
market?
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul B
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:06 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: IS THIS THE END OF CRAFT GALLERIES?
I do mostly wholesale and up until now always seem to find new places to
sell to a little faster than the old ones go out of business, but i have =
a
feeling this will change next year. So many of the galleries i sell to =
have
been saying for years that sales are slow, and that was even before the
price of oil doubled. Now they are heading into this year's holiday
shopping season with inflation climbing rapidly and oil prices at a near
all-time high with another major hurricane just about to wipe out a =
bunch
more of oil refineries and no doubt cause sharp price increases at the =
pump.
Just this week i had two galleries actually cancel thier holiday season
orders with simply because they don't have space for any more =
merchandise
because sales are so slow. One of them was on my B list but the other =
was
more or less on my A list as they have an excellent location and have =
sold
my pottery very fast. But they they started carrying a lot of ultra-high
end ceramic art and did not order as often from me anymore, who knows =
maybe
that will change now if they can make it through these hard times.
One way or another i will get by and i have all kinds of ways to keep my
expenses down like running both my van and my kiln on waste veg oil, but =
i
can't help but think this is the year when all these stores that have =
been
saying for years how slow things are going will finally just close up =
shop
for good. Don't get me wrong, i see stores close every year but i think
this is the big one.
The conclusion i have drawn after 4 years in the wholesale gift =
ware/craft
gallery scene is that, although it works fine for me and i plan to =
continue
as long as there are stores left to sell to, the basic fact is that it =
is
not a very profitable business to buy and re-sell hand made crafts. The
stores that really make a good profit off of it are the exceptions =
rather
than the rule and the overwhelming majority of these places stay around
less than 5 years if that.
Pretty soon i will be going full speed ahead on my website and i think =
that
will eventually replace the need to even bother wholesaling to more than =
a
handfull of the best galleries i deal with, so i am not so much =
concerned
about my own financial well being.
It makes wonder what kind of future there is for studio potters who make
most or all of their income from pottery, when you consider that craft
shows are about as downhill as they could be and now it seems like the
entire wholesale market is going the same direction.
I don't mean to be pessimistic here, just wondering if anyone will come
forward and prove me wrong. Please feel free to do so!
thanks,
Paul
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Chris Campbell on sat 22 oct 05
Paul -
Yes, I agree that things are very tough in the
wholesale business right now ... but unless
you have a ton of places to pass out your
website information no one will find you.
Try googling specific pottery types and watch
60,000 sites show up!
That is why I recommend www.wholesalecrafts.com.
I do not work for them nor do I profit in any way
by recommending them to you.
There are currently over 12,000 galleries shopping
online with them ... the sales for the third quarter of
this year were 67 percent above last year.
When you consider most other venues are showing
declining sales, this is excellent news. Also, many
repeat orders go directly through the artist and do
not show up in the site statistics.
They handle American and Canadian handcrafts
and are worth taking a look at.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - watching a hawk
slowly circle my back yard ... checking out my bird feeders
for a quick snack I suspect !!
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Fine Colored Porcelain since 1989
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 1 nov 05
There was a very interesting workshop last Feb at the Rosen Show. The topic
was essentially about what was going to happen to the retail handcrafted
industry as the web grew in influence. The moderator/speaker's position was
that the web is here, it's not going away, and the industry had better learn
to live with it and adapt to it, and the best way is to set up a dialog with
the artists so there is some mutual understanding. (Crafts Report ran an
article on this by the moderator in, maybe, June 2005).
The galleries/shops basic position was that of stonewalling...if the artist
has a website, we won't do business with them. This is, in my opinion,
unrealistic. If they maintain this position, they will ultimately have to
deal in manufactured for retail goods, with maybe a few truly handcrafted
people.
We're seeing it already. Many of the handcrafted people in wholesale are
going into offering slab work big time, with a few handthrown pieces on the
side. This allows them to hire unskilled workers to add to the line while
their handthrown work is only part.
We sell our work wholesale, have a website, and run a gallery with some 160
craftspeople supplying us...all bought wholesale...no consignment.
Since we added the shopping cart to the website for our work last fall,
sales from the web quadrupled. Now, how long are we going to be wholesaling
at this rate? Our base strategy is to sell everything we wish to make, at
retail, from the studio. Before the web really took off about 3 years ago,
that might have been tough. Now it is clearly a viable strategy.
The galleries that will survive are those who understand that they are not
selling goods, they are selling an experience, service, selection. Even if
they stonewall the artist into not selling on the web, other shops will be
selling on the web (right now, note how few shops quote prices) and
ultimately there will be discounters. But, most of their customers will not
come in, grab names and go home to shop it on the web. They will enjoy the
ambiance, the chatter with friends and shop employees and owners. They will
be buying the experience. But a few grab names, check the web and the shop
owner must be prepared to handle it with appropriate customer answers.
Other industries have gone through this already and figured out how to make
it work. Computers are sold in stores, by web discounters and direct by
manufacturers. This is true of many other products. Art and craft are just
late to the game.
Another piece the galleries must face is size. If they reach the sales
levels needed to support their overhead, they have to move a lot of
merchandise, or very high priced merchandise. Many of us as small producers
can't keep up with demand or will find ourselves supplying only a few
outlets...a dangerous situation. My suspicion is that ultimately the
handcrafted work of small producers will be found almost exclusively in the
showrooms, like ours, of people who produce their own work.
The handcrafted market is changing quickly. And as always, in change, some
will survive and some won't. And the industry will look very different 5
years form now.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Tom at Hutchtel.net on wed 2 nov 05
Hi Kathy...
I'm not demeaning your work, or slab work in general. If you build a system
of forming, finishing and drying, I would still contend that there is a
shorter learning curve for slab work than wheel for the kind of work being
turned out here. These are production pieces. All one clay body, a few
forms, little in the way of additions or non-mold forming. Things like
various trays and plates. Very simple.
What I was trying to make was the observation that many production potters
are adding slab work to their lines because they can get less skilled people
to make them. In many cases the potter does the glazing or decorating.
It's just a way to add to the number of pieces the studio turns out. The
fact people are doing it is indicative of how hard it is to make a living by
throwing only. In many cases, the slab work actually takes longer to do
than throwing. try making that 30 mugs an hour by hand (without an
extruder).
I have personally watched one potter who has a worker roll and cut slabs
with a template, finish edges, lay on a hump mold and then stack 10 of these
molds on top of each other, rolling them around to ensure proper forming.
When dry enough, they are pulled from the mold, have appropriate cleanup and
then dried for bisque.
Sorry you thought I was picking on hand building as less skilled than wheel.
They're different critters and what you do is different than what I'm
talking about.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
>>From: "Kathi LeSueur" Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: IS THIS THE END OF CRAFT GALLERIES?
>>
>> ......... Many of the handcrafted people in wholesale are
>> going into offering slab work big time, with a few handthrown pieces
>> on the
>> side. This allows them to hire unskilled workers to add to the line
>> while
>> their handthrown work is only part.>>>>>>>>
>
> A large part of my line is slab work. I guarantee you that a quality
> product cannot be made by unskilled workers. Proper finishing is
> essential. Proper drying is essential. I am often accused of RAM
> pressing my slab work because it is so well finished and consistant. The
> pieces stack beautifully. They are not RAM pressed. Every piece starts
> with a slab of clay. Every piece is finished by hand. And, every piece
> is dried in a different way. Slab requires a whole other set of skills
> from throwing. But I could teach someone to throw reasonably well in
> less time than I could teach someone to do quality slab work.
>
Kathi LeSueur on wed 2 nov 05
Tom at Hutchtel.net wrote:
> There was a very interesting workshop last Feb at the Rosen Show. The
> topic
> was essentially about what was going to happen to the retail handcrafted
> industry as the web grew in influence......
>
> The galleries/shops basic position was that of stonewalling...if the
> artist
> has a website, we won't do business with them....
>
> ......... Many of the handcrafted people in wholesale are
> going into offering slab work big time, with a few handthrown pieces
> on the
> side. This allows them to hire unskilled workers to add to the line while
> their handthrown work is only part.>>>>>>>>
A large part of my line is slab work. I guarantee you that a quality
product cannot be made by unskilled workers. Proper finishing is
essential. Proper drying is essential. I am often accused of RAM
pressing my slab work because it is so well finished and consistant. The
pieces stack beautifully. They are not RAM pressed. Every piece starts
with a slab of clay. Every piece is finished by hand. And, every piece
is dried in a different way. Slab requires a whole other set of skills
from throwing. But I could teach someone to throw reasonably well in
less time than I could teach someone to do quality slab work.
Kathi
>
>
>
Kathi LeSueur on thu 3 nov 05
Tom at Hutchtel.net wrote:
> Hi Kathy...
>
> I'm not demeaning your work, or slab work in general. If you build a
> system
> of forming, finishing and drying, I would still contend that there is a
> shorter learning curve for slab work than wheel for the kind of work being
> turned out here. These are production pieces.....
> Sorry you thought I was picking on hand building as less skilled than
> wheel.
> They're different critters and what you do is different than what I'm
> talking about.>>>>>>
Tom,
I didn't think you were picking on me. However, I do disagree (without
any rancour) with some of your arguments. "Production pieces" are part
of any potter's line in my opinion. When I sit down and throw
twenty-four vases that I will then carve by hand, these are production
pieces. I will try, as best my skill allows, to make each form the same.
The carving will follow a style I've developed over the years. I've made
hundreds of these pots. I consider them production pieces.
However, if I take them to a show, I can display them one of two ways.
On shelves, lined up they will be considered "production pieces". But,
if I put one of each size on a pedestal, they become one of a kind art.
This isn't just me. I have a potter friend who sells very large thrown
vessels. They are exquiste and he displays them on pedestals. One each.
But when I visit his studio I will see maybe ten or more of each form
waiting to be glazed. They are a production item.
I personally feel that quality slab takes longer and more skill to
produce. I can out throw my slab production any day. I think it's not
the process, but the product in the end that matters. Each can be done
well or be done poorly. Each with or without integrity. Those slabs on
form stacked up will look dead on the shelf because the care taken to
make them is minimal.
Kathi
>
>
>
Lee Love on fri 4 nov 05
On 2005/11/04 19:38:16, Kathi LeSueur wrote:
> Each can be done
> well or be done poorly. Each with or without integrity. Those slabs on
> form stacked up will look dead on the shelf because the care taken to
> make them is minimal.
Tom Wrote:
> > of forming, finishing and drying, I would still contend that there
is a
> > shorter learning curve for slab work than wheel for the kind of
work being
> > turned out here. These are production pieces.....
Personally, I think handbuilt work is more difficult to do
well. On the wheel, we can always fall back on the circle.
The pottery that I think is the most astounding is the first
pottery made: Jomon ware. It was handbuilt.
I sat next to a 77 year old shokunin (living breathing
master craftsman) who did all the handbuilt work for my teacher during
my apprenticeship. He started at age 14, working for Shoji Hamada.
He cut his slabs with a wirer and slats were used to judge the
thickness. He would get a kick out of the fact that his slab and mold
made kokusara (square dishes), would fetch a higher price than the
foreman's thrown platters. The slab plates took longer to make.
I have seen these square dishes made (often in the West)
by folks who don't understand them, and they look like crap.
There is a lot of slab made functional/production ware here
that is very popular. The work can be made in an inspired way or a
schlock way. It all comes down to skill and one's intention.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
--Leonardo da Vinci
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