Gary Harvey on fri 28 oct 05
Throwing tall Harvey's Way.
1. The clay should be stiff rather than too soft but not to hard either
because your wrist will suffer if it is.
2. Very slow wheel. This can't be repeated enough, very slow wheel. Take
you time don't rush it until you are use to doing this.
3. center, open clay, set bottom.
4. Pull clay up into cone shape. Take your time don't rush it.
5. use knuckle grab to pull up as tall as you want. You can use this again
in place of #6
6. Then use a Metal rib that looks like a flat piece of metal. Mine is 5"
long by 4" wide about 1/4' thick. It also has a thumb hole in the middle.
(if you want a photo email me off list please allow 5 days for a response.)
One edge is curved in ward the other is square. Use the curved side to pull
the clay up. Use your inside the pot hand to push out against the inside,
(I use my finger tips) turn the medal rib at about a 45 degree angle to the
pot and use it to push inward towards the inside. (In other words squeeze
the clay between you inside hand and the rib on the outside.) Again bring to
a cone shape. Then I use the straight side of the rib to put a shape to the
pot but sometimes I use the curved.
7. I sometimes repeat 6 according to need.
8. Using the straight edge of the metal rib I smooth out the outside of the
clay by cutting into the exterior part of the pot slightly. This put a very
smooth surface to work with.
9. Use the edge of the rib to cut under the pot at about 45 degrees angle.
Then use your finger tip to smooth out the bottom. Cut under the pot with a
cutter wire. Remove bat from wheel head.
Gary Harvey, Palestine TX substitute the obvious prettypaos at
academicplanet dot com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wendt"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: throwing tall
> Dan & Laurel ,
> Much of the advice given is right on so I want to add this point:
> The softer the clay is, the more difficult it is to stand a tall wall.
> I am basing this on my own experience backed up by yield
> measurements made with the clay softness tester I built.
> As the moisture level in the clay goes up, its ability to
> support a load declines so if you want taller pots, first
> try drying the clay out before you wedge it, then wire
> wedge it thoroughly and finally, work quickly to avoid
> absorbing too much water during the early stages of
> forming. I suspect that you may be victim of too soft clay
> since what you describe is a yield problem where the
> weight of the added clay above thickens and widens the
> wall beneath, limiting how tall you can throw.
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Ave
> Lewiston, Idaho 83501
> USA
> wendtpot@lewiston.com
> www.wendtpottery.com
> I seem to have a problem getting anything taller than about 8". I start
> with
> 2lb of clay and in a few pulls I get up to 8" and have been unable to do
> anything to make anything taller. If I add more clay, same thing, fast up
> to
> 8" and than it just wants to get wider but not taller. Is there some trick
> to make this work? Any good books or videos that someone can recommend?
>
>
> Dan & Laurel in Elkmont Al
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Michael Wendt on sat 29 oct 05
"Throwing tall Harvey's Way.
1. The clay should be stiff rather than too soft but not to hard either
because your wrist will suffer if it is.
2. Very slow wheel. This can't be repeated enough, very slow wheel. Take
you time don't rush it until you are use to doing this."
I disagree with the notion that working slowly will help a person struggling
with size to get bigger pots.
Every student I have taught has had the same problem:
they work so slowly that the pot takes on water, gets soft and becomes slump
prone. The clay gets overworked.
Good pacing with decisive pulls helps them overcome this common hurdle.
Any time I throw moderately large pieces, I try to blank out the cylinder in
three pulls and usually have the core cylinder in 45 seconds to one minute.
I am talking about one piece pots in the 3-5 LB. range with an initial
height before shaping of 10-12 inches.
My 1 gallon canisters weigh 5 lbs wet and are about 11-12" tall wet and
10-11" tall when finished.
I realize these are not large pots by most peoples standards, but they are
good practice for throwing taller things like lamp bases which are often a
full arms length and require a very strong pace to beat the overworking
issue.
YMMV
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Malcolm Schosha on sat 29 oct 05
On 10/29/05, Michael Wendt wrote:
> "Throwing tall Harvey's Way.
> 1. The clay should be stiff rather than too soft but not to hard either
> because your wrist will suffer if it is.
> 2. Very slow wheel. This can't be repeated enough, very slow wheel. Take
> you time don't rush it until you are use to doing this."
>
> I disagree with the notion that working slowly will help a person struggl=
ing
> with size to get bigger pots.
> Every student I have taught has had the same problem:
> they work so slowly that the pot takes on water, gets soft and becomes sl=
ump
> prone. The clay gets overworked.
> Good pacing with decisive pulls helps them overcome this common hurdle.
> Any time I throw moderately large pieces, I try to blank out the cylinder=
in
> three pulls and usually have the core cylinder in 45 seconds to one minut=
e.
> I am talking about one piece pots in the 3-5 LB. range with an initial
> height before shaping of 10-12 inches.
> My 1 gallon canisters weigh 5 lbs wet and are about 11-12" tall wet and
> 10-11" tall when finished.
> I realize these are not large pots by most peoples standards, but they ar=
e
> good practice for throwing taller things like lamp bases which are often =
a
> full arms length and require a very strong pace to beat the overworking
> issue.
> YMMV
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Ave
> Lewiston, Idaho 83501
> USA
> wendtpot@lewiston.com
> www.wendtpottery.com
>
...............................
If you can get to get the clay up in less pulls (two maximum) you
would be better off, and not have the problem with water absorbsion.
Fifteen lb. pots CAN be thrown with just two pulls. Experience, in
Italy, has shown that the first pull is best done with a spunge in the
outside hand, it makes it easier to get a large amount of clay up.
For large pieces (18" or more) the clay is best pulled very slowly.
The strain of going so slow is one of the things that makes throwing
large pieces hard on the potter's body. This is particularly true if
throwing many large pieces in a long day on the wheel.
Malcolm Schosha
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 30 oct 05
Dear Michael Wendt,
Your experience seems to fit in with the idea that most folk who take up =
the wheel can get a cylinder four inches high and a palm width wide =
cavity inside from a pound of clay. From a couple of pounds of clay they =
will get up to eight inches high. With three pounds of clay they may =
manage twelve inches high but given four pounds of clay they may never =
attain a pot sixteen inches high.
Some people may be able to explain why.
Best regards,
Ivor
Malcolm Schosha on mon 31 oct 05
Ivor,
Because the width of a cylinder must increase with the hight to maintain a stable shape. Shapes that are too tall in proportion to with are not stable.
Malcolm Schosha
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
Dear Michael Wendt,
Your experience seems to fit in with the idea that most folk who take up th e wheel can get a cylinder four inches high and a palm width wide cavity inside from a pound of clay. From a couple of pounds of clay they will get up to eight inches high. With three pounds of clay they may manage twelve inches high but given four pounds of clay they may never attain a pot sixteen inches high.
Some people may be able to explain why.
Best regards,
Ivor
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Carl Finch on mon 31 oct 05
At 06:27 AM 10/31/2005, Malcolm Schosha wrote:
>... the width of a cylinder must increase with the hight to maintain a
>stable shape. Shapes that are too tall in proportion to width are not stable.
Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
--Carl
in Medford, Oregon
Malcolm Schosha on tue 1 nov 05
Carl,
It is hard to be sure from a photo if the cylinder was thrown heavy. It is, in fact, possible to throw such a shape with about 1/8" thickness (or less) with an even distribution top to bottom, but that does not make it a stable shape. For instance, a vase that configuration with flowers in it would get blown over very easily by the wind near an open window.
A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high is not a stable shape, but it is a possible shape. But, on the other hand, in the context of someone's work it might well be logical...that is always possible; and every potter works from the logic of his/her own situation and goals.
Malcolm Schosha
Carl Finch wrote:
At 06:27 AM 10/31/2005, Malcolm Schosha wrote:
>... the width of a cylinder must increase with the hight to maintain a
>stable shape. Shapes that are too tall in proportion to width are not stable.
Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
--Carl
in Medford, Oregon
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Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on tue 1 nov 05
A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high sounds like an extruder shape to me.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
> Carl,
>
> It is hard to be sure from a photo if the cylinder was thrown heavy. It
> is, in fact, possible to throw such a shape with about 1/8" thickness (or
> less) with an even distribution top to bottom, but that does not make it a
> stable shape. For instance, a vase that configuration with flowers in it
> would get blown over very easily by the wind near an open window.
>
> A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high is not a stable shape, but it is a
> possible shape. But, on the other hand, in the context of someone's work
> it might well be logical...that is always possible; and every potter works
> from the logic of his/her own situation and goals.
>
> Malcolm Schosha
>
>
> Carl Finch wrote:
> At 06:27 AM 10/31/2005, Malcolm Schosha wrote:
>
>>... the width of a cylinder must increase with the hight to maintain a
>>stable shape. Shapes that are too tall in proportion to width are not
>>stable.
>
> Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
>
> --Carl
> in Medford, Oregon
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Malcolm Schosha on tue 1 nov 05
I doubt if there are very many potters who throw cylinders of any size or proportion as the major part of their production. But cylinders do make a convent example when discussing throwing problems (as in this case) because they are easy to measure and compare.
Malcolm Schosha
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman wrote:
A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high sounds like an extruder shape to me.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
> Carl,
>
> It is hard to be sure from a photo if the cylinder was thrown heavy. It
> is, in fact, possible to throw such a shape with about 1/8" thickness (or
> less) with an even distribution top to bottom, but that does not make it a
> stable shape. For instance, a vase that configuration with flowers in it
> would get blown over very easily by the wind near an open window.
>
> A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high is not a stable shape, but it is a
> possible shape. But, on the other hand, in the context of someone's work
> it might well be logical...that is always possible; and every potter works
> from the logic of his/her own situation and goals.
>
> Malcolm Schosha
>
>
> Carl Finch wrote:
> At 06:27 AM 10/31/2005, Malcolm Schosha wrote:
>
>>... the width of a cylinder must increase with the hight to maintain a
>>stable shape. Shapes that are too tall in proportion to width are not
>>stable.
>
> Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
>
> --Carl
> in Medford, Oregon
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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______________________________________________________________________________
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Bruce Girrell on tue 1 nov 05
Carl Finch wrote:
>Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
Holey Smokey! How much clay did you start with for that?
Bruce "envious" Girrell
Gene & Dolita Dohrman on tue 1 nov 05
Oh Carl...you are a naughty, naughty boy. Do tell how you did that! LOL!
Dolita
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Girrell"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
> Carl Finch wrote:
>
> >Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
>
>
> Holey Smokey! How much clay did you start with for that?
>
> Bruce "envious" Girrell
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 10/31/05
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 2 nov 05
Dear Bonnie Hellman,=20
I wonder where this 1/4" came from. I was asking for a cylinder with a =
palm width cavity which is about 4 inches diameter.
Best regards,
Ivor
Carl Finch on thu 3 nov 05
At 09:55 AM 11/1/2005, Bruce Girrell wrote:
>Carl Finch wrote:
>
> >Mebbe, mebbe not--looky here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/20851686/
>
>
>Holey Smokey! How much clay did you start with for that?
Actually, I fergit. My wife took that snapshot in February, 2001. I had
just resurrected our wheel from 25 years of cobwebs, and this was my very
first attempt to see if I could still center and pull, etc.
The current "throwing tall" thread reminded me of the picture and how I
(ahem) modified it slightly for the bemusement of friends. Here's what I
did: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djinn/59289859/
>Bruce "envious" Girrell
So there's no need to be, Bruce (envious, I mean--presumeably you do need
to be Bruce!)
And as a further disclaimer, the next photo there (Cone Illumination and
Viewing...) is actually NOT a cone-viewing device, but some sort of
laser-tag gun, a birthday present of my young grandson's.
The dog, however, is real and functions pretty much as shown.
Carl "fessed up" Finch
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on thu 3 nov 05
Ivor,
The 1/4" was what Malcolm Schosha wrote in his email, copied below. In
visualizing these dimensions it didn't sound like anything people would
throw.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
> Carl,
>
> It is hard to be sure from a photo if the cylinder was thrown heavy. It
> is, in fact, possible to throw such a shape with about 1/8" thickness (or
> less) with an even distribution top to bottom, but that does not make it a
> stable shape. For instance, a vase that configuration with flowers in it
> would get blown over very easily by the wind near an open window.
>
> A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high is not a stable shape, but it is a
> possible shape. But, on the other hand, in the context of someone's work
> it might well be logical...that is always possible; and every potter works
> from the logic of his/her own situation and goals.
>
> Malcolm Schosha
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
Dear Bonnie Hellman,
I wonder where this 1/4" came from. I was asking for a cylinder with a palm
width cavity which is about 4 inches diameter.
Best regards,
Ivor
______________________________________________________________________________
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melpots@pclink.com.
Malcolm Schosha on fri 4 nov 05
Sorry about the typo in my message. I had intended to write 4", the width given by Ivor in his experiment in cylinder height in proportion to clay weight.
Now that I think of it, Ivor, why not do the experiment keeping the cylinder height the same and varying the width? Would not one make as much sense as the other?
Malcolm Schosha
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman wrote:
Ivor,
The 1/4" was what Malcolm Schosha wrote in his email, copied below. In
visualizing these dimensions it didn't sound like anything people would
throw.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
> Carl,
>
> It is hard to be sure from a photo if the cylinder was thrown heavy. It
> is, in fact, possible to throw such a shape with about 1/8" thickness (or
> less) with an even distribution top to bottom, but that does not make it a
> stable shape. For instance, a vase that configuration with flowers in it
> would get blown over very easily by the wind near an open window.
>
> A cylinder 1/4" wide and 16'' high is not a stable shape, but it is a
> possible shape. But, on the other hand, in the context of someone's work
> it might well be logical...that is always possible; and every potter works
> from the logic of his/her own situation and goals.
>
> Malcolm Schosha
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: throwing tall instructions my way
Dear Bonnie Hellman,
I wonder where this 1/4" came from. I was asking for a cylinder with a palm
width cavity which is about 4 inches diameter.
Best regards,
Ivor
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
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melpots@pclink.com.
______________________________________________________________________________
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 4 nov 05
Dear Bonnie Hellman,
It seemed to me to be a "typo" error ! !
I noted your response about control of wheel speed. Once you get past =
the basics with throwing it always seems as though good physical =
coordination, good observation using eyes and fingertips and lack of =
distraction all contribute to learning as you repeat the basic cylinder =
forming process time... after time... after time......
Thanks for your contributions to the thread,
Best regards
Ivor
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 5 nov 05
Dear Malcolm,=20
Thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding.
Yes, you have a good point. Any diameter you wish to choose would be =
fine. In fact throwing test samples of several diameters might help to =
validate the results for any particular clay.
I chose a "Palm Width" which is about four inches or ten centimetres out =
of convenience. Anything smaller and it becomes difficult to get your =
hand down to make the second draft, anything bigger and it starts to =
need a lot of clay.
A good test is to assemble 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 lb (or metric equiv) =
balls of clay and get to work and see what your own personal outcomes =
are. This could be done with a 20 lb bag of clay.
I need to do that again but with a project in mind.
Best regards,
Ivor
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