Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on mon 31 oct 05
As an aside to this discussion about mfa degrees, my mother and I went to
the Carnegie Art Museum of Pittsburgh last week, and looked at the portion
of their 19th and 20th century art on display. Quite a few pieces had
discussion of the artists, about 95% of them painters, and the only academic
credentials mentioned were when someone had been a professor at a Pittsburgh
area college or university. No mention of degrees that anyone had earned.
Occasionally there was mention that someone was "self taught."
This is a mostly traditional collection of paintings on display, and they
didn't care about anyone's academic credentials.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: mfa, studio.what?
> this has been worked over rather well on clayart
> over the last ten years...and will continue to be
> a topic of interest.
>
> degrees, studio time, shows, exhibits...what?
>
> so often people trudge down life paths thinking they should
> follow the crowd. do things is some sort of pre determined social order.
> college.
> degree.
> advanced degree.
> then you are ready to rock and roll.
>
> i have not found that to be true in the arts.
>
> the book `art and fear` claims it is surefire
> death for an artist.
> those getting mfa degrees, or having a major
> show in new york often never do art again...in their life.
> when art is based on `idea` rather than skill and knowledge...
> once you have had your big idea...your life is over.
>
> when i go out around the country and teach...the one thing
> people want is `skill based, technique based information`. people
> are starving for information and skill. ` just show us how to do things.`
> the stories and chatter are fun, interesting...but what folks want is
> information on how to be a better potter, or...`what do i do with the
> stuff i make?` i try hard to change the lives of potters with skills
> that will enhance their work forever. and the letters that i get back
> after a workshop indicate it is working well.
>
> if you are on a tenure track teaching job...well, shows and exhibitions
> are
> vital...your future is tied to them. if you are a young potter working
> out of your home....stay away from shows. they are expensive, you will
> often be hurt and it does nothing for your future. take the money you
> would
> spend on professional slides, entry fees, travel and buy a pug mill.
> you will be years ahead. then, make a hundred pots...set them on table
> in your backyard...and have a small home sale. keep the prices low...20,
> 30 bucks and you will be a very happy...sold out potter. you will smile,
> all the way to the bank.
> keep a list of friends and neighbors, make a small data base and in ten
> years
> you will have 500 names on your list. then you can do a `kick ass` sale.
> keep the commission for yourself. for sure, do this math test: 100 pots
> times 25= $2500.00 or, you can hope to sell one pot for a thousand
> bucks.
> not many doing it.
>
> if you want to be a potter...a potter, that makes pots..functional
> ware....
> i totally agree with tom turner....go to potters to learn, go to art
> centers
> that have instruction for potters and go to workshops....then you will
> be on your way. then make a great many pots.
>
> if you want to go into debt, give up your family...leave home, go to
> a great grad program and get your mfa and then tell me how much
> you gained. i have the answer for most. a few of you out there have
> done it with grace and hard work...(lori leary) but, it was not easy. and
> to think that a job teaching college ceramics is just waiting for
> you...well
> you are in deep dodo. try the lottery, your chances are better.
> but, as vince says...`if it is what you want and you are really
> committed..go for it.`
>
> my bottom line on all of this is:
> know why you want to do something.
> be honest to yourself.
> what is the cost in money and family problems.?
> what do you gain in the end?
> so, don't be the `wizard of oz`...paint a degree on your chest.
> if you want to be a potter...make pots...lots of pots.
> make glaze tests...lots of them. fire kilns...all kinds. get involved
> in the process of making things from clay. all ways. wheel, hand building
> sculpture. then sell it to someone. then make more. but, make a great
> many.
> not one a month.
> mel
> what a great group of eager potters i found in toledo. they are
> ready to `rock and roll` with clay. no false hopes there.
> it never surprises me how often people just need permission and a
> small shove to be good.
>
>
> from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
> website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
mel jacobson on mon 31 oct 05
this has been worked over rather well on clayart
over the last ten years...and will continue to be
a topic of interest.
degrees, studio time, shows, exhibits...what?
so often people trudge down life paths thinking they should
follow the crowd. do things is some sort of pre determined social order.
college.
degree.
advanced degree.
then you are ready to rock and roll.
i have not found that to be true in the arts.
the book `art and fear` claims it is surefire
death for an artist.
those getting mfa degrees, or having a major
show in new york often never do art again...in their life.
when art is based on `idea` rather than skill and knowledge...
once you have had your big idea...your life is over.
when i go out around the country and teach...the one thing
people want is `skill based, technique based information`. people
are starving for information and skill. ` just show us how to do things.`
the stories and chatter are fun, interesting...but what folks want is
information on how to be a better potter, or...`what do i do with the
stuff i make?` i try hard to change the lives of potters with skills
that will enhance their work forever. and the letters that i get back
after a workshop indicate it is working well.
if you are on a tenure track teaching job...well, shows and exhibitions are
vital...your future is tied to them. if you are a young potter working
out of your home....stay away from shows. they are expensive, you will
often be hurt and it does nothing for your future. take the money you would
spend on professional slides, entry fees, travel and buy a pug mill.
you will be years ahead. then, make a hundred pots...set them on table
in your backyard...and have a small home sale. keep the prices low...20,
30 bucks and you will be a very happy...sold out potter. you will smile,
all the way to the bank.
keep a list of friends and neighbors, make a small data base and in ten years
you will have 500 names on your list. then you can do a `kick ass` sale.
keep the commission for yourself. for sure, do this math test: 100 pots
times 25= $2500.00 or, you can hope to sell one pot for a thousand bucks.
not many doing it.
if you want to be a potter...a potter, that makes pots..functional ware....
i totally agree with tom turner....go to potters to learn, go to art centers
that have instruction for potters and go to workshops....then you will
be on your way. then make a great many pots.
if you want to go into debt, give up your family...leave home, go to
a great grad program and get your mfa and then tell me how much
you gained. i have the answer for most. a few of you out there have
done it with grace and hard work...(lori leary) but, it was not easy. and
to think that a job teaching college ceramics is just waiting for you...well
you are in deep dodo. try the lottery, your chances are better.
but, as vince says...`if it is what you want and you are really
committed..go for it.`
my bottom line on all of this is:
know why you want to do something.
be honest to yourself.
what is the cost in money and family problems.?
what do you gain in the end?
so, don't be the `wizard of oz`...paint a degree on your chest.
if you want to be a potter...make pots...lots of pots.
make glaze tests...lots of them. fire kilns...all kinds. get involved
in the process of making things from clay. all ways. wheel, hand building
sculpture. then sell it to someone. then make more. but, make a great many.
not one a month.
mel
what a great group of eager potters i found in toledo. they are
ready to `rock and roll` with clay. no false hopes there.
it never surprises me how often people just need permission and a
small shove to be good.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
gjudson on mon 31 oct 05
Mel wrote:=20
> if you want to be a potter...a potter, that makes pots..functional
> ware....
> i totally agree with tom turner....go to potters to learn, go to art
> centers
> that have instruction for potters and go to workshops....then you will
> be on your way. then make a great many pots.
>=20
For me Mel is RIGHT ON! Last weekend I drove to Houston Texas to attend =
a
workshop at the Glassell School Ceramic Studio led by Kim Yong-Moon. =
Such a
wonderful experience! Watching someone work with clay in such a =
masterful
way is very stimulating for me--not intimidating as might be expected. =
And
the generosity of these master-potters as they share their "secrets" is
amazing. I came home charged up to get on the wheel and try out all =
that I
saw demonstrated.
My husband, Jim, is bringing Tony Clennell to San Antonio next March to
offer a 2 day demonstration workshop. I can't wait to meet this pottery
master, fill my pocket with his tricks, and get to know this wonderful
character first-hand! What a treat it will be. You can come, too!=20
Taylor from Rockport on mon 31 oct 05
Hey Hey Hey, It's Fat Albert...er...Tony...er never mind.
I wanted so much to go to that Houston workshop but I had my eyes and my
pocketbook set on Gruene. I too was rewarded for my loyalty to Gruene.
This year I was delighted that I chose to sit in on Lisa Orr's demo. Mein
Gott, but that woman is right on with her clay handling. To see her demo
is to KNOW that she understands things about clay that I want to
understand. Fantastic. My cool kimchi jars will have to wait.
And now you are telling me that TC will be within spittin' distance of
Rockport TX? Sign me up, man! Oh, I have to check with the wife and see
if I have any allowance coming, but I'll keep my fingers crossed. And give
us more information on the event asap.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
http://www.wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://www.wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.clayartmugshots.blogspot.com
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:10:44 -0600, gjudson wrote:
>Mel wrote:
>> if you want to be a potter...a potter, that makes pots..functional
>> ware....
>> i totally agree with tom turner....go to potters to learn, go to art
>> centers
>> that have instruction for potters and go to workshops....then you will
>> be on your way. then make a great many pots.
>>
>
>For me Mel is RIGHT ON! Last weekend I drove to Houston Texas to attend a
>workshop at the Glassell School Ceramic Studio led by Kim Yong-Moon. Such
a
>wonderful experience!
...
>My husband, Jim, is bringing Tony Clennell to San Antonio next March to
>offer a 2 day demonstration workshop. I can't wait to meet this pottery
>master, fill my pocket with his tricks, and get to know this wonderful
>character first-hand! What a treat it will be. You can come, too!
Kathy Forer on mon 31 oct 05
On Oct 31, 2005, at 9:32 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> when art is based on `idea` rather than skill and knowledge...
> once you have had your big idea...your life is over.
I smiled when I saw your lede echoed in a story in the local section =20
of today's paper which reads "[candidate a] offers ideology, while =20
[candidate b] sticks with pragmatism."
There are many ways to develop knowledge. Skill through pragmatism =20
and problem-solving is one, idealism which will often spend itself is =20=
another, while rationalism and empiricism are better equipped to =20
survive. "Knowing that" or episteme (literally: science) is =20
distinguished from "knowing how" or techne (literally: craftsmanship) =20=
but truly, they're interdependent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
The pragmatism of fire can turn a gnat-like excrescence of ideas to =20
gold. Or dross.
=46rom Aristophanes, The Clouds, 423 BC:
PHEIDIPPIDES: Just listen to that=97Paternal Zeus.
How out of date you are! Does Zeus exist?
STREPSIADES: He does.
PHEIDIPPIDES: No, no, he doesn=92t=97there's no way,
for Vortex has now done away with Zeus
and rules in everything.
STREPSIADES: He hasn=92t killed =20=
him.
[He points to a small statue of a round goblet which stands outside =20
Thinkery]
I thought he had because that statue there,
the cup, is called a vortex. What a fool
to think this piece of clay could be a god!
PHEIDIPPIDES: Stay here and babble nonsense to yourself.
[Pheidippides exits]
STREPSIADES: My god, what lunacy. I was insane
to cast aside the gods for Socrates.
[Strepsiades goes up and talks to the small statue of Hermes outside =20
his house]
But, dear Hermes, don=92t vent your rage on me,
don=92t grind me down. Be merciful to me.
Their empty babbling made me lose my mind.
Give me your advice. Shall I lay a charge,
go after them in court. What seems right to you?
[He looks for a moment at the statue]
You counsel well. I won=92t launch a law suit.
I=92ll burn their house as quickly as I can,
these babbling fools.
http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/aristophanes/clouds.htm
Lee Love on tue 1 nov 05
On 10/31/05, *mel jacobson* wrote:
> if you want to be a potter...a potter, that makes pots..functional
> ware....
> i totally agree with tom turner....go to potters to learn, go to art
> centers
> that have instruction for potters and go to workshops....then you will
> be on your way. then make a great many pots.
Sometimes "just making pots" ain't enough. If you examine a
bit, you know that this is one way, as Volukos might say, to keep
making the same dumb pots.
I would hesitate in telling people the easy way
is the best way to go. If I followed that prescription, I would
have never picked up and moved to Minnesota to study or come to Japan at
the age of 46 to do a 3 year apprenticeship or decided to live here to
know why pots are made the way they are here.
> my bottom line on all of this is:
> know why you want to do something.
> be honest to yourself.
This is what our decisions should be based on.
How much do you love what you do? How much are you willing to
sacrifice to be your best? I think the workshop system is wonderful
back home and is not something that is so strong here. But it is only
one tool in the tool box.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Although nature commences with reason and ends in experience
it is necessary for us to do the opposite,
that is to commence with experience
and from this to proceed to investigate the reason.."
--Leonardo da Vinci
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