claybair on tue 8 nov 05
Will,
Thanks for the great posting.
You peaked my interest though...
Like what is Cordwaining and why
"Him" was the correct gender?
I came across this interesting article
http://66.82.75.68/wimguild2.html
title "Women in Medieval Guilds"
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Will McPherson
Dear Clay-art folk
It should be obvious to you all why there is no great interest in Medieval
times in a Potter's Guild.
Guilds were there to hold members to a standard, as well as take care of
those members and members' families who found themselves in difficult
straits.
Potteries, and tile makers, often moved about from job to job, since raw
materials were almost everywhere at hand. Any and all training done was done
by the
"Masters" of the craft, most of whom never went through a formal transition
from
journeyman to Master, which in other crafts, such as Cordwaining, (a craft
in
which I am also a Master,) required a group of Masters to sit and observe
the
journeyman preparing his "Master piece" whilst quizzing him (Sorry, Ladies,
but "Him" is the correct gender) about the secrets and mysteries of the
craft.snip>
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Wood Jeanne on tue 8 nov 05
Bill, I must respectfully take issue with a few of
your points. Women most certainly did belong to guilds
in the Middle Ages, please refer to "Women in the
Middle Ages" by Frances and Joseph Gies, Pgs. 178-181,
discusses a number of these guilds including women who
attained master status. Many more books too, just the
book I had at hand.
Later Middle Ages employed itinerant manuscript
illuminators who traveled and belonged to guilds. I
can send references for this too if wished.
Perhaps you are correct, but I still am not satisfied
as to the reason why there weren't potter's guilds in
Medieval Europe. Or maybe the answer is in the next
book I read???
-Jeanne W.
--- Will McPherson wrote:
> Dear Clay-art folk
>
> It should be obvious to you all why there is no
> great interest in Medieval
> times in a Potter's Guild.
> Guilds were there to hold members to a standard, as
> well as take care of
> those members and members' families who found
> themselves in difficult straits.
> Potteries, and tile makers, often moved about from
> job to job, since raw
> materials were almost everywhere at hand. Any and
> all training done was done by the
> "Masters" of the craft, most of whom never went
> through a formal transition from
> journeyman to Master, which in other crafts, such as
> Cordwaining, (a craft in
> which I am also a Master,) required a group of
> Masters to sit and observe the
> journeyman preparing his "Master piece" whilst
> quizzing him (Sorry, Ladies,
> but "Him" is the correct gender) about the secrets
> and mysteries of the craft.
> Not something that most potters, with established
> potteries already filled
> with wares cooking over an open wood fire for
> thirty-six hours, would care to go
> through.
> Potters were then, (as they are now) extremely
> independent, much like those
> covered so brilliantly in the book, Country Pottery:
> Traditional Earthenware of
> Britain, by Andrew McGarva. Look no farther than
> your own eclectic membership
> for examples. A new mother taking on the world of
> throwing in her forties, a
> fellow who lost everything in a fire or in Red Stick
> (Baton Rouge). You
> haven't changed in millennia, let alone decades.
> They are almost as independent as
> cordwainers, who would not leave their smoky shops
> unless it was to deliver a
> custom boot for a very large stipend.
> Potters were then the dregs of the earth; no
> offence, for, after all,
> consider the material with which they made their
> wares.
> They were only inches from the very earth they trod
> in the fall and let
> freeze in winter outside to become the smooth and
> plastic material from which God
> made Man, and we make mugs.
>
> Those of you who take offence at the term, "Mud,"
> for the material with which
> we work, do not understand how important those
> crafts are which work so
> closely to the material of the earth itself. Grind
> your own pigments, as
> Michelangelo did, grind your own inks as the Great
> Chinese artists did, (or let the ink
> stone be ground by a young and frail girl, whose
> body was not capable of a
> great deal of pressure of ink stick on slate, and
> was therefore perfect in the
> production of the quality of ink needed for those
> subtle and swift masterworks.)
> Tanned hide, horn turned into cups and combs, bones
> burned on a bone fire for
> potash, meat, eyes and tendons, all valuable, if a
> little forensic for our
> age, were why the craftspeople of the Medii Aevi had
> no trash to set out every
> Wednesday. They used it all.
> But they did not strut in the sun over what they
> made. Blacksmiths and
> whitesmiths, tanners with urine from the taverns,
> Brewers who supplied the fodder
> for the urine, cordwainers and cobblers, the latter
> cobbling together a sole for
> a boot made by their betters, (Stick to the last and
> give it your awl) all
> made the stuff of daily life and did not expect much
> beyond a farthing or two
> for their work since their egos, Freud's breakout,
> did not yet exist. A guild
> for potters? Ha!
>
> Sincerely,
> Bill McPherson
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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Will McPherson on tue 8 nov 05
Dear Clay-art folk
It should be obvious to you all why there is no great interest in Medieval
times in a Potter's Guild.
Guilds were there to hold members to a standard, as well as take care of
those members and members' families who found themselves in difficult straits.
Potteries, and tile makers, often moved about from job to job, since raw
materials were almost everywhere at hand. Any and all training done was done by the
"Masters" of the craft, most of whom never went through a formal transition from
journeyman to Master, which in other crafts, such as Cordwaining, (a craft in
which I am also a Master,) required a group of Masters to sit and observe the
journeyman preparing his "Master piece" whilst quizzing him (Sorry, Ladies,
but "Him" is the correct gender) about the secrets and mysteries of the craft.
Not something that most potters, with established potteries already filled
with wares cooking over an open wood fire for thirty-six hours, would care to go
through.
Potters were then, (as they are now) extremely independent, much like those
covered so brilliantly in the book, Country Pottery: Traditional Earthenware of
Britain, by Andrew McGarva. Look no farther than your own eclectic membership
for examples. A new mother taking on the world of throwing in her forties, a
fellow who lost everything in a fire or in Red Stick (Baton Rouge). You
haven't changed in millennia, let alone decades. They are almost as independent as
cordwainers, who would not leave their smoky shops unless it was to deliver a
custom boot for a very large stipend.
Potters were then the dregs of the earth; no offence, for, after all,
consider the material with which they made their wares.
They were only inches from the very earth they trod in the fall and let
freeze in winter outside to become the smooth and plastic material from which God
made Man, and we make mugs.
Those of you who take offence at the term, "Mud," for the material with which
we work, do not understand how important those crafts are which work so
closely to the material of the earth itself. Grind your own pigments, as
Michelangelo did, grind your own inks as the Great Chinese artists did, (or let the ink
stone be ground by a young and frail girl, whose body was not capable of a
great deal of pressure of ink stick on slate, and was therefore perfect in the
production of the quality of ink needed for those subtle and swift masterworks.)
Tanned hide, horn turned into cups and combs, bones burned on a bone fire for
potash, meat, eyes and tendons, all valuable, if a little forensic for our
age, were why the craftspeople of the Medii Aevi had no trash to set out every
Wednesday. They used it all.
But they did not strut in the sun over what they made. Blacksmiths and
whitesmiths, tanners with urine from the taverns, Brewers who supplied the fodder
for the urine, cordwainers and cobblers, the latter cobbling together a sole for
a boot made by their betters, (Stick to the last and give it your awl) all
made the stuff of daily life and did not expect much beyond a farthing or two
for their work since their egos, Freud's breakout, did not yet exist. A guild
for potters? Ha!
Sincerely,
Bill McPherson
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