Lee Marshall on fri 11 nov 05
In a message dated 11/11/2005 12:07:39 AM Central Standard Time,
LISTSERV@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG writes:
A quick look to
see the average size of bacterium came up with quite a rance (0.2 =B5m and 2=
0
=B5m).
in the pharmaceutical industry we filter bacteria with a ,5 micron filter. to
put that in perspective, the diameter of a human hair is 50 microns. that is
also the limit of what a trained inspector can see when checking vials for
particulates
lee marshall
silver ridge pottery
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 25 nov 05
Hi Wayne,
But too, any cool Old-Time Twenty-Quart Pressure Cooker with them big Jules
Vern Wing Nuts and the rusty peeling-paint-dial Gauge ( like mine! ) , makes
a dandy 'poor mans' Autoclave, and a fast, 20 minute 'soak' at ohhhh, eighty
whistleing pounds or something, ( you know, right around there the Dog tends
to hide and so on) ought to tell that Mold-in-the-plate-crazes who's who...!
Or, one could just go for the gusto!
Soak that plate in some nice 'Nutrient' Broth of some kind, and keep it in a
warmish humid place out of the light for a while, and..."Viola!"
"Chia Pets" look out...!
Lol...
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne"
John:
In answer to your questions:
1: I would tell her that indeed they must be staying moist for mold
to grow, and would suggest the addition of a teaspoon of chlorine to
each gallon of dishwater (after heating) to eliminate mold spores.
Allow the dishes to soak in the water for a few minutes, not just a
quick dunk, rub and rinse. Thoroughly drying the dishes in a rack
(covered with a cloth if necessary) on the counter is indicated
also.
2: If I made ware like that, I would be too ashamed to sell it, and
would hope that the Mayor would come down and kick me soundly in the
butt for doing so. Hopefully, I would have tested any ware first
before offering it for sale. Yes, she would get a refund,
immediately.
IMHO
Wayne Seidl
who has seen enough mold these past two weeks to last a lifetime
John Hesselberth on fri 25 nov 05
Hi Everyone,
We have debated the importance of crazing on functional work several=20
times over the years and I think the general consensus is that it is a=20=
glaze defect but probably not one that is a health/safety issue. I=20
received an inquiry, part of which I have copied below, and wonder how=20=
you would have responded. It is the worst case I have ever heard of.=20
The dinnerware must be earthenware or a very non-vitrified stoneware to=20=
have mold sprouting from the cracks in the glaze. So 2 questions:
1. How would you answer her inquiry, and
2. If you had made and sold this dinnerware, would you refund the=20
person's money if confronted with it?
>>> I purchased commercial produced dishes (Casual China by=20
>>> Waechtersbach of Germany) =A0less than 1
>>> year ago.=A0 They are crazing very badly!=A0 When I don't use them =
for
>>> awhile, like large pieces mold grows inside of the cracks.=A0 The
>>> company has given me the reason is because I am putting them up
>>> wet...We both know that is a bunch of junk...=A0 Can you give me any
>>> direction on how safe this is for us to eat on these dishes?
Regards,
John
Michael Wendt on fri 25 nov 05
John,
There is no hope to survive in business if customers are dissatisfied. In
this instance, they are very rightly unhappy.
Mold should never grow on dinnerware unless there is food left on the
surface. The crazing must be quite severe to allow mold growth from the
craze lines. Bad!
I have a general policy that I make it right either by refund or replacement
if a person is unhappy with a purchase. It can hurt you more to have an
unhappy customer bad mouthing you and pottery in general than the small
amount a refund costs.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Wayne on fri 25 nov 05
John:
In answer to your questions:
1: I would tell her that indeed they must be staying moist for mold
to grow, and would suggest the addition of a teaspoon of chlorine to
each gallon of dishwater (after heating) to eliminate mold spores.
Allow the dishes to soak in the water for a few minutes, not just a
quick dunk, rub and rinse. Thoroughly drying the dishes in a rack
(covered with a cloth if necessary) on the counter is indicated
also.
2: If I made ware like that, I would be too ashamed to sell it, and
would hope that the Mayor would come down and kick me soundly in the
butt for doing so. Hopefully, I would have tested any ware first
before offering it for sale. Yes, she would get a refund,
immediately.
IMHO
Wayne Seidl
who has seen enough mold these past two weeks to last a lifetime
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John
Hesselberth
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:26 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Crazed dinnerware
Hi Everyone,
We have debated the importance of crazing on functional work several
times over the years and I think the general consensus is that it is
a=20
glaze defect but probably not one that is a health/safety issue. I=20
received an inquiry, part of which I have copied below, and wonder
how=20
you would have responded. It is the worst case I have ever heard of.
The dinnerware must be earthenware or a very non-vitrified stoneware
to=20
have mold sprouting from the cracks in the glaze. So 2 questions:
1. How would you answer her inquiry, and
2. If you had made and sold this dinnerware, would you refund the=20
person's money if confronted with it?
>>> I purchased commercial produced dishes (Casual China by=20
>>> Waechtersbach of Germany) =A0less than 1
>>> year ago.=A0 They are crazing very badly!=A0 When I don't use them
for
>>> awhile, like large pieces mold grows inside of the cracks.=A0 The
>>> company has given me the reason is because I am putting them up
>>> wet...We both know that is a bunch of junk...=A0 Can you give me
any
>>> direction on how safe this is for us to eat on these dishes?
Regards,
John
____________________________________________________________________
__________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
--=20
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date:
11/23/2005
=20
--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date:
11/23/2005
=20
Vince Pitelka on fri 25 nov 05
John Hesselberth wrote:
"We have debated the importance of crazing on functional work several
times over the years and I think the general consensus is that it is a
glaze defect but probably not one that is a health/safety issue. I
received an inquiry, part of which I have copied below, and wonder how
you would have responded. It is the worst case I have ever heard of.
The dinnerware must be earthenware or a very non-vitrified stoneware to
have mold sprouting from the cracks in the glaze. So 2 questions:
1. How would you answer her inquiry, and
2. If you had made and sold this dinnerware, would you refund the
person's money if confronted with it?"
John -
This is perhaps the most extreme example I have ever heard of. I wonder if
the antique stuff just sort of "seals itself" over time? Yeah, I know, not
a pleasant thought, but I don't know how else to explain the fact that one
never encounters this mold problem on such dishes. I have owned a lot of
old earthenware pottery that was severely crazed, and have washed, dried,
stacked, and used it in a normal fashion without ever encountering such mold
problems.
It would be my guess that these dishes must be severely porous, and perhaps
the moisture is aggrivating the problem by causing further expansion,
worsening the crazing, increasing the absorption, etc. The company has a
lot of nerve suggesting that the problem is that she is "putting the dishes
up wet." Hell, the only way to dry them would be to heat them up in the oven
for a few hours so that they dry out through and through.
If I had made those dishes and realized the extent of the problem, I'd take
them back immediately with a full refund to the customer, and I'd re-examine
my ways of making and firing my wares.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Daniel Semler on sat 26 nov 05
Hi John,
Apologies up front for rather dodging your questions :)
It is very interesting that this is happening.
From the bit you quote it seems that the crazing is still occurring and very
visibly. It has been speculated, as you know, that bacteria and so on might
find a home in craze lines. As no case so bad as this has apparently been
reported before, and yet a great number of crazed pots have been used for
years, one has to ask why these pots should be different. This leads to
questions about the environment in which the pots live as well as questions
about the pots themselves. Do we know anything about that environment at all ?
Is it relatively humid ? Does she have a mold problem in her house ? On
the pot
side, I would expect that weighing them, then baking them at 300F for a few
hours would be interesting, ie. it would be worth knowing if the porosity is
indeed outside norms for the particular type of ware. It would also be
interesting to know if the composition of the pots was in some other way
uniquely suited to growing mold. Alas, without cooperation from the
manufacturer this is likely impossible to determine.
Thanx
D
Kathi LeSueur on sat 26 nov 05
John Hesselberth wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have debated the importance of crazing on functional work several
> times over the years and I think the general consensus is that it is a
> glaze defect but probably not one that is a health/safety issue. I
> received an inquiry, part of which I have copied below, and wonder how
> you would have responded. It is the worst case I have ever heard of.
> The dinnerware must be earthenware or a very non-vitrified stoneware
> to have mold sprouting from the cracks in the glaze. So 2 questions:
>
> 1. How would you answer her inquiry, and
> 2. If you had made and sold this dinnerware, would you refund the
> person's money if confronted with it?
>
>>>> I purchased commercial produced dishes (Casual China by
>>>> Waechtersbach of Germany) less than 1
>>>> year ago. They are crazing very badly! When I don't use them for
>>>> awhile, like large pieces mold grows inside of the cracks. The
>>>> company has given me the reason is because I am putting them up
>>>> wet...We both know that is a bunch of junk... Can you give me any
>>>> direction on how safe this is for us to eat on these dishes?>>>>>>>>
>>>
If I had made and sold this dinnerware I would be horrified and
embarrassed. I would ask for the pieces back and totally refund her
money. Then I would try to figure out why they had crazed so badly and
if there was other work out there with the same problem.
If I didn't make this work I would advise the customer to take one of
two steps. Return the pottery and demand a full refund. If they refuse,
a threat to turn them in to the appropriate government agency would be
in order or a letter to my senator asking that they intervene to keep
this dangerous work off o the U.S. market.
If they wanted to keep the work and use it I would suggest that they
always rinse it in a 10 bleach solution (the universal ratio for
disinfecting).
Kathi
| |
|
