Peter Cunicelli on wed 16 nov 05
Hi all,
I'm still fairly new to selling my work, but as in the flea market thread,
I have a clear philosophy about selling good work.
However, I do get pieces that have cracks, which I don't feel are worth
full price. What are some thoughts about having a Seconds Sale? Does
anyone do that to clear inventory and make some pocket cash? If so, how
much less would you sell a piece for?
Am I being contrary to what I said earlier regarding selling my soul if I
discount any work?
Thanks!
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Mark Issenberg on wed 16 nov 05
Dont sell seconds at a show. Dont haggle about prices.
Be professional
If you have seconds have a seconds sale at your studio.
Mark
_www.lookoutmountainpottery.com_ (http://www.lookoutmountainpottery.com)
Jennifer Boyer on wed 16 nov 05
Ohboy, you'll get a rainbow of reactions to this one. Mine:
I've done pretty high volume production for decades and I have good
galleries that don't tolerate 2nds. I sell my seconds for 70% of
retail. So I get more for them that I would for a first going to a
consignment gallery. I also sell them out of my studio, so they don't
take any more labor that putting them on the shelf with a sticker.
Granted, my seconds are very slightly flawed. For instance I wouldn't
sell something with a bad rim crack, only bottom cracks that don't go
all the way through, Most of my seconds involve clay impurity spots,
brushwork oddities, oxide smudges, kiln stuff in the pot, small
handle/mug join cracks, etc.
Customers love my seconds and I don't have the least problem with less
than perfect pots being out in the world. I've had many situations
where someone buys a second (having never bought hand made pottery
before) and then comes back later to buy firsts as presents because
she loves her second so much....call it entry level pottery.
In this day of a questionable global energy future I can't imagine
putting perfectly usable, slightly flawed pottery in the landfill,
especially when I go the the Metropolitan Museum and see some seconds
reverently displayed in the cases!
Take Care
Jennifer
On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:12 AM, Peter Cunicelli wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm still fairly new to selling my work, but as in the flea market
> thread,
> I have a clear philosophy about selling good work.
>
> However, I do get pieces that have cracks, which I don't feel are worth
> full price. What are some thoughts about having a Seconds Sale? Does
> anyone do that to clear inventory and make some pocket cash? If so,
> how
> much less would you sell a piece for?
>
> Am I being contrary to what I said earlier regarding selling my soul
> if I
> discount any work?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peter
> (www.petercunicelli.com)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Vince Pitelka on wed 16 nov 05
> However, I do get pieces that have cracks, which I don't feel are worth
> full price. What are some thoughts about having a Seconds Sale? Does
> anyone do that to clear inventory and make some pocket cash? If so, how
> much less would you sell a piece for?
> Am I being contrary to what I said earlier regarding selling my soul if I
> discount any work?
Peter -
I think that discounting your best work is a slippery slope, and if you sell
wholesale or on consignment, you owe it to those retailers not to undersell
the projected retail price in other venues (I say projected, because if you
sell wholesale, the retailers are free to mark up the price to whatever the
market will bear, but if their markup is more than 100% of the wholesale
price, then they cannot complain if you undersell them in other markets).
But as you point out, every potter ends up with seconds and leftovers. This
has been discussed extensively in the past, but briefly, here's what I have
done.
When I was a full-time studio potter in the late 70s and early 80s, a good
part of our income came from big studio sales in a showroom in our house in
December and May, and from showroom sales by appointment throughout the
year. We always had a "seconds and bargains" shelf, and things were marked
down dependent on the degree of "defect," and it becomes a question of what
you consider a defect. Pieces that were very badly warped or had sharp
cool-down cracks went in the trash.
A major part of our income was wholesale (50% of retail), so we were
committed to not undersell that retail price unless a piece was defective or
discontinued. And yet if we could sell something for significantly more
than wholesale price, we were money ahead. All the best stuff sold from our
showroom went for full retail price, but if there was ANY good reason to
mark something down a little and place it on the "seconds and bargains"
shelf, we did so, and that stuff FLEW out of the showroom. People do love a
bargain, and while I think it does demean your best work to offer it for a
lowered price price, especially if the customer is trying to get you to
lower the price, it does make sense to offer seconds and bargains when there
is a good reason to do so.
I believe that it is inappropriate to offer seconds and bargains in any
venue except your own home showroom/galllery and studio sales. If you do so
at any sort of craft fair, it demeans the venue. If you do so at a flea
market or yard sale, it demeans your work. When you have a corner for
bargains or seconds in your home showroom or your studio, it just makes good
sense, to you and to the customer, and they will appreciate it. In some
cases I'd mark prices down slightly on pieces that wholesale or consignment
retailers would probably have accepted, such as when the glaze color was
slightly off, or there was an extra-large iron bloom, or a very slight warp
in the rim-level of a plate, because it was financially advantageous to us
to do so. Customers would be tickled pink if they bought such a piece for
10% off and "couldn't even see why it was a second."
Well, that wasn't so brief, but I hope it is helpful -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Peter Cunicelli on wed 16 nov 05
Mark, Jennifer & Vince,
Thanks for the replies! I always know I'm going to get good advice from
folks on this list.
I would never sell seconds at a show. What would be the point of having
the good work if people can get similar pieces for reduced amount. I have
a cousin who only buys seconds. I'll never sell full price to people like
that.
I would have a seconds sale only in my studio. I've emailed certain people
on my list to offer my seconds to them. One friend/artist went nuts
because he felt that I was compromising sales of my good work and
encouraged me to Dremmel my signature off the pieces I sold at a reduced
rate. I didn't do that. So, that's why I asked this question.
I haven't begun selling wholesale - yet. I will. However, I've sold
specific forms at a specific price. I won't sell any future pieces like
that for any less. I've got a good handle on how to sell my work
(although, hearing anyone elses experience is always welcomed).
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Steve Irvine on wed 16 nov 05
Hi Peter,
I've never sold or even given away a second. I just can't bring myself to do it. They all get
smashed. I have to do this when my wife isn't around since she will come into the studio and try to
"rescue" the pieces if she hears me. A few of the shards have made it into other projects:
http://www.steveirvine.com/sundial.html
I never haggle with customers. I don't have any one liners or anything, I just politely but firmly say
no.
Apart from my immediate family, I don't give discounts to anyone, not even close friends. If I did
so I'd have to draw a line somewhere between close friends, good friends, friends, acqaintances...
I can't draw that line so everyone gets charged the same, including taxes. I think my friends
understand and appreciate this.
The above may make me seem a little hard hearted, but it also follows that people trust and count
on me without question, and that's worth something too.
Steve
http://www.steveirvine.com
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:12:22 -0500, Peter Cunicelli wrote:
>I'm still fairly new to selling my work, but as in the flea market thread,
>I have a clear philosophy about selling good work.
>
>However, I do get pieces that have cracks, which I don't feel are worth
>full price. What are some thoughts about having a Seconds Sale? Does
>anyone do that to clear inventory and make some pocket cash? If so, how
>much less would you sell a piece for?
Peter Cunicelli on wed 16 nov 05
Hi Steve,
I don't think you sound hard hearted at all. It's the way you chose to do
business. I respect that. I have very clear boundaries when it comes to
doing business with family and friends. I don't! :)
I, on the other hand, have had a lot of interest in work that's sitting in
my house and my studio that I consider below par. So, if I can get some
cash for it that's great. I'm going to be doing this full time as of
December 1. As I mentioned in a post to Gayle, there are pieces that
aren't fit for the light of day. They get smashed by a friend who does
mosaics.
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Rose on fri 18 nov 05
>However, I do get pieces that have cracks, which I don't feel are worth
>full price. What are some thoughts about having a Seconds Sale? Does
>anyone do that to clear inventory and make some pocket cash? If so, how
>much less would you sell a piece for?
>
>Am I being contrary to what I said earlier regarding selling my soul if I
>discount any work?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Peter
>(www.petercunicelli.com)
I have a special process for cracked or second pieces, the hammer. I don't
want anything of poor quality coming back on me in the years to come. That
work represents you and your standards. I make beautiful crystalline work and
don't want to be compromised. If I really like the look of the piece, the
form, the glaze, crystals, background, secondary crystals, I keep the piece for
myself, cracked or not, otherwise, I sacrifice it to the gods of the hammer!
Rose Downs
Terra Madre
www.terramadre.com
2517 Greenfield Acres
Princeton, TX 75407-9734
469-450-5480
personal cell ... 469-450-3305
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