Elizabeth Priddy on fri 18 nov 05
I wouldn't leave an electric blanket on and
covering things with water. The whole water
and electricity thing not being good.
Why can't you get another heater for the garage?
It seems that the expense would be well-justified
and tax deductible for incidentals of operation
since you are heating it to keep your materials
ready to use.
And I know you know how to scrounge, so it might
wind up close to free.
Also, don't you people who live where you freeze
have root cellars with hay procedures to keep
things warm?
When I worked in an unheated studio, I liked it.
But we are only cold for about three months.
Anyhow.
EP
--- primalmommy wrote:
> There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived. My rain barrel
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
primalmommy on fri 18 nov 05
There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived. My rain barrel is
frozen, the chicken waterer is a block of ice, and my arms ache to the
elbow from the cold clay I have been scooping out of the slop bucket and
packing into the hopper of the bluebird pugmill.
Now I have to think fast. The bluebird is in a garage unheated except
for the kilns. So are the slop buckets and several hundred pounds of
boxed clay. I can move some of it into the studio, which is kept above
freezing by an electric oil radiator with a thermostat, but it's only 12
X 24 to begin with, and packed already.
Mel says I should get an electric blanket and toss it over the pug mill.
I like the idea, because I think I could put some boxes of clay and slop
buckets under the pug milll and keep those from freezing as well.
(Yes, I know clay is not harmed by freezing. I am currently recycling
some that has weathered 7 years in big rubbermaid storage tubs outside.
But I want to be able to use this boxed clay without thawing and
rewedging. )
My concern is that an electric blanket left on 24-7, even on low, might
be a fire hazard. Anybody done something similar?
I suppose I could also wrap it in one of those heat cords like they use
to keep pipes from freezing, though that might not keep it from freezing
at either end and will do nothing for my clay.
Electric rates around here are bad, gas is worse. I have stashed clay in
my basement before, but the pug mill just can't come in the house and
won't fit in my studio.
Ideas welcome..
yours,
Kelly -- Remind me again why I live in Ohio?
P.S. Tony, I read with interest your post about writing. The truth is, I
have found clayart one of the only places where I can write without
getting myself in trouble. My other on-line groups range from parenting
to politics, and I am generally snow-shoeing in a minefield in places
like that. You think POTTERS get defensive when their techniques are
challenged -- try mommies! Or worse, homeschoolers...
_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More!
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 19 nov 05
Hi Kelly,
Hmmmmm....
Is the 'unheated except for the Kilns' garage, insulated? Or un-insulated?
Is the Kiln venting method able to be 'closed'? And are the insulated egress
of their chimneys able to be made air tightish? ( as distinct from 'open'
Triple-wall and so on?)
Have you a C02 Monitor in there ( for that matter, ) ?
I s'pose, if you could schedule firings regularly, the warm-ups and stay-ups
and cool-downs of them would over all keep things nice enough in there for
Mr.'Pug' et al...
....brooding now...and...
If it was me I think I'd get an old smallish-to-medium Coal Burning 'Pot
Belly'
Stove set
up in there, (toos out whatever CAN freeze out in the yard somewhere and
throw a tarpaulin ovet it) make a large plenum if you can, useing a 55 gal
drum (or two) suspended
horizontally from the ceiling up highish, and from that do your home stretch
'out' with the chimney-pipe...insulate and close off the room so it is
fairly tight, and have the
initial section from Stove to Plenum set up with an atmospheric gravity
rebound flue dampener.
You can stoke now and then that way, and lightly even, and regulate the
Stove and the in-line
dampener so it runs slow and 'easy' and long...so you are not having
to stoke very often, and likely be pretty allright in every way...likely it
would keep it in the 60s or something in there.
I can get and keep a 1,600 sq-ft 12 foot ceiling uninsulated semi-not-very
'tight'
shop space into the 80s on Wood here when it is 29 or 30 out, so, you should
be able to do pretty well with what size space your Garage is there with
some ingenuity. I had a chance to get quite a few tons of old 1920's or '30s
Coal that had been sitting forever but I dragged my feet oweing to how I had
no where to put it...and, it went bye-bye on me, so, sigh...
Otherwise, any resistance-heating electrical device is gunna add up in cost
to just run at all, by the end of the season, will have cost a lot more than
a smaller-to-medium sized old Iron Stove got at some yard sale or
fleamarket or want ads, some used pipe and a Barrel, used or self made
'triple wall' for the going through the ceileing or roof parts, and a pile
of
Coal or Coke
got likely even for free if you know where.
Between now and then, whether you use an Electric Blanket or a little Space
Heater, it is going to draw juice and add to your electric bill something
serious. Those astards are going to get more greedy with the greed they get
rewarded with by being patronized already, too.
If you were to run a Kerosene or Propane heater that does not have a pipe
going out the roof, you may build up some nasty C02 levels and...besides the
unpleasant expense of the appliances themselves and their tiresome fuel
replenishments...
Mixing lots of Plaster would warm things up a little...but...
If it was me living in the rust belt regions, I'd heat with Coal and Coke
and be a happy boy...and if the paint peels on the neighbor's house, well,
here, let me dab the corner of my eye with that hanky a moment...
I imagine there are still endless old tuns of it laying
around for good guy (or gal ) deals. Anthrocite, Bituminous, old Coke...lots
of happy BTUs there...ohhhhh yea...
I know you need a 'solution' quick, but there might not be one that is not
going to cost either money, or time, or both in some proportion to have it
do what
you want over months of use.
"Just" keeping the Pug Mill a little above freezing maybe an electric
Blanlet would be fine enough, but still, what does it draw, and what about
the rest of the room where maybe you will be wishing to do things or have
things? How many watts will that draw if set high enough to do anything more
than keep it 'just' above freezing?
You could run a long extension cord or series of them to some not especially
liked neighbor's house and plug it in somewhere where they would not notice.
You know, twist tie some Autum leaves or dessicated Vine segments, to the
parts that are out of the snow.
Make sure if you do, that the cords are heavy enough so they do not melt the
snow with their resistance, which otherwise would cover them untill Spring,
and, your Bill then will not suffer, so you can run it on the 'hi' setting
all Winter that way. Come spring when it thaws, get mad at them for their
'prank' and march home winding up the cords saying, "I'm gunna take these
since they have been laying on MY property you litterbug prankster you!" or
something...
(Just kidding of course...ahem...)
Otherwise...
I dunno...
Good luck though..!
I myself hate having cold hands or cold things I am trying to work with...
How do you heat your House?
Phil
Las Vegas
Who likes Ohio for one thing, because at one time, it was refered to as "The
West"...
And West of the Ohio River, for that matter, was 'Out West'...
That was some ways before the Railroads though...
----- Original Message -----
From: "primalmommy"
> There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived. My rain barrel is
> frozen, the chicken waterer is a block of ice, and my arms ache to the
> elbow from the cold clay I have been scooping out of the slop bucket and
> packing into the hopper of the bluebird pugmill.
>
> Now I have to think fast. The bluebird is in a garage unheated except
> for the kilns. So are the slop buckets and several hundred pounds of
> boxed clay. I can move some of it into the studio, which is kept above
> freezing by an electric oil radiator with a thermostat, but it's only 12
> X 24 to begin with, and packed already.
>
> Mel says I should get an electric blanket and toss it over the pug mill.
> I like the idea, because I think I could put some boxes of clay and slop
> buckets under the pug milll and keep those from freezing as well.
>
> (Yes, I know clay is not harmed by freezing. I am currently recycling
> some that has weathered 7 years in big rubbermaid storage tubs outside.
> But I want to be able to use this boxed clay without thawing and
> rewedging. )
>
> My concern is that an electric blanket left on 24-7, even on low, might
> be a fire hazard. Anybody done something similar?
>
> I suppose I could also wrap it in one of those heat cords like they use
> to keep pipes from freezing, though that might not keep it from freezing
> at either end and will do nothing for my clay.
>
> Electric rates around here are bad, gas is worse. I have stashed clay in
> my basement before, but the pug mill just can't come in the house and
> won't fit in my studio.
>
> Ideas welcome..
>
> yours,
> Kelly -- Remind me again why I live in Ohio?
Karin on sat 19 nov 05
A move to sunny Arizona could make it better.
Karin Hurt
www.laughingbearpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "primalmommy"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: heating pug mill?
> There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived. My rain barrel is
> frozen, the chicken waterer is a block of ice, and my arms ache to the
> elbow from the cold clay I have been scooping out of the slop bucket and
> packing into the hopper of the bluebird pugmill.
>
> Now I have to think fast. The bluebird is in a garage unheated except
> for the kilns. So are the slop buckets and several hundred pounds of
> boxed clay. I can move some of it into the studio, which is kept above
> freezing by an electric oil radiator with a thermostat, but it's only 12
> X 24 to begin with, and packed already.
>
> Mel says I should get an electric blanket and toss it over the pug mill.
> I like the idea, because I think I could put some boxes of clay and slop
> buckets under the pug milll and keep those from freezing as well.
>
> (Yes, I know clay is not harmed by freezing. I am currently recycling
> some that has weathered 7 years in big rubbermaid storage tubs outside.
> But I want to be able to use this boxed clay without thawing and
> rewedging. )
>
> My concern is that an electric blanket left on 24-7, even on low, might
> be a fire hazard. Anybody done something similar?
>
> I suppose I could also wrap it in one of those heat cords like they use
> to keep pipes from freezing, though that might not keep it from freezing
> at either end and will do nothing for my clay.
>
> Electric rates around here are bad, gas is worse. I have stashed clay in
> my basement before, but the pug mill just can't come in the house and
> won't fit in my studio.
>
> Ideas welcome..
>
> yours,
> Kelly -- Remind me again why I live in Ohio?
>
> P.S. Tony, I read with interest your post about writing. The truth is, I
> have found clayart one of the only places where I can write without
> getting myself in trouble. My other on-line groups range from parenting
> to politics, and I am generally snow-shoeing in a minefield in places
> like that. You think POTTERS get defensive when their techniques are
> challenged -- try mommies! Or worse, homeschoolers...
>
>
>
>
> > style="font-size:13.5px">_______________________________________________________________
Get
> the FREE email that has everyone talking at > href=http://www.mail2world.com
> target=new>http://www.mail2world.com
> color=#999999>Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar –
> SMS – Translator – Much More!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 nov 05
> Now I have to think fast. The bluebird is in a garage unheated except
> for the kilns. So are the slop buckets and several hundred pounds of
> boxed clay. I can move some of it into the studio, which is kept above
> freezing by an electric oil radiator with a thermostat, but it's only 12
> X 24 to begin with, and packed already.
Kelly -
Leaving an electric blanket over your pugmill running 24/7 would be an
invitation to disaster. 12' by 24' is still a lot of space, and a pugmill
in the corner doesn't take up that much room. Seems to me that you need to
make some seasonal adjustments in your studio arrangement. There must be
things in there that could go out into the garage for the winter.
In my former studio at the northern end of California we had very little
freezing, but it was still plenty cold through the winter. I stored my clay
outside on pallets under a tarp behind the studio, and I'd keep a small
supply inside the studio next to the pugmill. When the supply of "warm"
clay started to get low, I'd hand-truck in another dozen boxes, and by the
time I got to that clay it would be warm.
In your part of the country, I expect this needs to be an even higher
priority. Warm clay is a necessity rather than a luxury.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Louis Katz on sat 19 nov 05
magnetic engine block heater?
Shoot aluminum pugmill won't work
At the bray we made an inuslated box for our 25 Horse pugmill the
first five years and put a space heater under it. Definately a possible
fire hazard. I think a heat source with a fuse, and two thermostats
might be called for. You need some sort of insulation or the cost of an
electric blanket 24/7 for 3 months might eat your lunch, or at least
eat your lunch twice a week.
How about pug your whole winters clay. and empty the pugmill for the
winter?
Louis
http://LouisKatz.net
On Nov 18, 2005, at 8:12 PM, primalmommy wrote:
> There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived.
Linda Ferzoco on sat 19 nov 05
Kelly,
How about building an insulated box around the pugmill and clay? For convenience, just get pieces of polystyrene foam at Home Despot or where ever, stack them vertically around the set up and cap with another piece. Keep the sides up with strapping and make a latch so that it can be taken down easily.
I'd try this first and see if the heat in the clay itself can't be conserved. If needed, try one of those heat pads that gardeners use to heat up the bottoms of seed trays. They're built to take water and might be safer than the electric blanket.
Or for a great non-electric heat source, make said container a dog house! A couple of nice Alaskan Malamutes would do the trick. Remember three dog night?
Good luck,
Linda
Pacifica, California, where we're having terrible, terrible weather; don't ask.
primalmommy wrote: There is no denying it - winter has finally arrived. My rain barrel is
frozen, the chicken waterer is a block of ice, and my arms ache to the
elbow from the cold clay I have been scooping out of the slop bucket and
packing into the hopper of the bluebird pugmill.
Now I have to think fast. The bluebird is in a garage unheated except
for the kilns. So are the slop buckets and several hundred pounds of
boxed clay. I can move some of it into the studio, which is kept above
freezing by an electric oil radiator with a thermostat, but it's only 12
X 24 to begin with, and packed already.
Mel says I should get an electric blanket and toss it over the pug mill.
I like the idea, because I think I could put some boxes of clay and slop
buckets under the pug milll and keep those from freezing as well.
(Yes, I know clay is not harmed by freezing. I am currently recycling
some that has weathered 7 years in big rubbermaid storage tubs outside.
But I want to be able to use this boxed clay without thawing and
rewedging. )
My concern is that an electric blanket left on 24-7, even on low, might
be a fire hazard. Anybody done something similar?
I suppose I could also wrap it in one of those heat cords like they use
to keep pipes from freezing, though that might not keep it from freezing
at either end and will do nothing for my clay.
Electric rates around here are bad, gas is worse. I have stashed clay in
my basement before, but the pug mill just can't come in the house and
won't fit in my studio.
Ideas welcome..
yours,
Kelly -- Remind me again why I live in Ohio?
P.S. Tony, I read with interest your post about writing. The truth is, I
have found clayart one of the only places where I can write without
getting myself in trouble. My other on-line groups range from parenting
to politics, and I am generally snow-shoeing in a minefield in places
like that. You think POTTERS get defensive when their techniques are
challenged -- try mommies! Or worse, homeschoolers...
_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More!
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
John Post on sat 19 nov 05
Just thinking out loud here...
What about a thick blue plastic tarp over the top of the pugmill and two
metal shop/mechanic lights underneath the pug with a light bulb in each?
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
... or just forgo the pugmill from November to April--- use boxed clay
for that part of the year.
earlk on sat 19 nov 05
Kelly,
Make a box from OSB, plywood or ??? that
will fit over your pug mill. Staple fiberglass
insulation on the inside. Place such box over
pug mill and place 100 watt light bulb under
box. This should generate and contain enough
heat to keep the mill from freezing. If 100
watt is more than adequate try a 60 or 40.
Or maybe gardner's or plumbe'rs heat tape
would work. They have thermostats such
that they only consume power when below
freezing.
Cost of running 100 watt bulb?
100 watts X
24 hours per day X
30 days per month /
1000 watts per kwh = 72 kwh
I don't know what your electric rate is but
at the low end of $0.10 per kwh that would
be $7.20 per month. At $0.20 per kwh it
would be $14.20.
Neither would be a financial burden if it
allows you to make and sell just one more pot.
earlk...
bothell, wa, usa
Michael Wendt on sat 19 nov 05
Dear Primalmommy,
In our area at farm supply stores they sell an inexpensive device called a
"heat cube" which is a plug with a built in thermostat. They are used to
prevent freezeups in pump houses and animal sheds during cold weather by
switching on when the room temperature gets to 35 degrees and switching off
if the temperature gets to 40 degrees. There are ones with different
temperature settings as well. Connect this device to your old fashioned
electric blanket and you are set for the winter without fear of overheating
the blanket if it turns out to be a warmer day.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 20 nov 05
Dear Kelly,
There is evidence in the clay knowledge base that puts forward the =
notion that Clay Cannot Be Frozen. There may be some truth in this.
My own opinion, based on taking plastic clay down to about minus 14 =
Celsius and holding at that temperature is that clay undergoes some sort =
of segregation when it is taken to such low temperatures. A proportion =
of the water remains bonded with the minerals but excess to that needed =
for plasticity separates out as thin sheets of ice.
When such frozen clay is unfrozen the ice vanishes without leaving a =
trace of free water and plasticity is restored.
I find this fascinating because of the questions it raises. I ask "Why =
should only part of the water separate, why not all of it? I ask 'To =
where does the separated water return when temperature rises beyond zero =
Celsius ?. "Does the density of clay change by 10% when it is cooled sub =
zero?" Such questions may not be of concern to you but they may shed =
light on the situation you describe and other things that concern =
potters.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
.
Tom at Hutchtel.net on sun 20 nov 05
Can I add one more question to Ivor's list. Don't know if it's directly
related, but might be....Why does wetted clay get stiffer hen it is
chilled...softer when heated? Water doesn't get thicker when chilled.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis" <
> There is evidence in the clay knowledge base that puts forward the =
> notion that Clay Cannot Be Frozen. There may be some truth in this.
>
> My own opinion, based on taking plastic clay down to about minus 14 =
> Celsius and holding at that temperature is that clay undergoes some sort =
> of segregation when it is taken to such low temperatures. A proportion =
> of the water remains bonded with the minerals but excess to that needed =
> for plasticity separates out as thin sheets of ice.
>
> When such frozen clay is unfrozen the ice vanishes without leaving a =
> trace of free water and plasticity is restored.
>
> I find this fascinating because of the questions it raises. I ask "Why =
> should only part of the water separate, why not all of it? I ask 'To =
> where does the separated water return when temperature rises beyond zero =
> Celsius ?. "Does the density of clay change by 10% when it is cooled sub =
> zero?"
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 22 nov 05
Dear Tom,
You ask...."Can I add one more question to Ivor's list. Don't know if =
it's directly related, but might be....Why does wetted clay get stiffer =
when it is chilled...softer when heated? Water doesn't get thicker when =
chilled."....
I wondered about the changes in the viscosity of water and checked. Yes, =
temperature does change the viscosity of water. It is thicker when it is =
near the freezing point and thinner near its boiling point.
When frozen clay is subject to a shock load, such as a hammer blow it =
will break with a brittle fracture. Now how can water be brittle??? =
Makes no sense given what The Books tell us.
But you have a valid point because what we are discussing here are Yield =
Point, Structure, Phase Changes, the Nature of Plasticity and their =
inter-relationships.
We are faced with complexity, misunderstanding, misinterpretation and in =
some cases, pure unadulterated misinformation.
Thanks for joining in.
Best regards,
Ivor
| |
|
