Frank Colson on fri 18 nov 05
Marianne- The perfect answer to understanding what temps you are at in your
kiln firing is to recognize "heat color". This way you know you are in the
ball park no matter what your pyrometer shows! A free Color Temperature
Chart is available at: www.R2D2u.com Just scroll to
the bottom of the opening page and download this helpful color guide.
Frank Colson
www.R2D2u.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "marianne kuiper milks"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: question about judging temperatures
> I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was also my
> 2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
> However: I have a question about something confusing.
>
> I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
> (06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of the
> kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I have
> bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was told
> would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am thinking
> that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy the
> more expensive one.
>
> I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
> When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by 1940
> nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top peep
> the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
> decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to do,
> because I had to choose between the average temp and
> the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3 pieces at
> the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I intend
> to low-fire them later. And because I really like
> them.
>
> I don't want to bug Axner, because they were really
> good to me with the exchange of a tile setter that
> arrived broken: they replaced it richly. However: I
> think I'm going to save up for the better type digital
> pyrometer.
>
> In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions what I
> should do re the inconsistency between the read temp
> (I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone 06 was
> down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
> (wine??) :)
>
> Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden), Marianne
> (pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
dannon rhudy on fri 18 nov 05
You MUST go by what the cones tell you.
The pyrometer is probably accurate at bisque
temps, but it may not be and sometimes they
need adjusting. There are instructions with
the pyrometer. Those less expensive ones work
fine, but sometimes they don't last as long. At
higher temps pyrometers are notoriously in-
accurate, but at 1800F or so, they are mostly
accurate.
If your kiln is heating unevenly, you will know
if you have placed cone packs here and there
throughout the kiln, so that you can see them
after the firing. If the middle is cold, or the
bottom, or wherever, the cone packs will alert
you.
If you fire more slowly, you are more likely to
have even temps, once you get the hang of adjusting
your damper (hole in the top, in this case).
regards
Dannon Rhudy
----- Original Message -----
From: "marianne kuiper milks"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: question about judging temperatures
> I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was also my
> 2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
> However: I have a question about something confusing.
>
> I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
> (06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of the
> kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I have
> bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was told
> would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am thinking
> that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy the
> more expensive one.
>
> I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
> When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by 1940
> nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top peep
> the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
> decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to do,
> because I had to choose between the average temp and
> the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3 pieces at
> the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I intend
> to low-fire them later. And because I really like
> them.
>
> I don't want to bug Axner, because they were really
> good to me with the exchange of a tile setter that
> arrived broken: they replaced it richly. However: I
> think I'm going to save up for the better type digital
> pyrometer.
>
> In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions what I
> should do re the inconsistency between the read temp
> (I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone 06 was
> down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
> (wine??) :)
>
> Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden), Marianne
> (pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> ---
> ---
>
>
---
---
marianne kuiper milks on fri 18 nov 05
I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was also my
2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
However: I have a question about something confusing.
I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
(06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of the
kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I have
bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was told
would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am thinking
that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy the
more expensive one.
I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by 1940
nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top peep
the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to do,
because I had to choose between the average temp and
the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3 pieces at
the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I intend
to low-fire them later. And because I really like
them.
I don't want to bug Axner, because they were really
good to me with the exchange of a tile setter that
arrived broken: they replaced it richly. However: I
think I'm going to save up for the better type digital
pyrometer.
In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions what I
should do re the inconsistency between the read temp
(I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone 06 was
down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
(wine??) :)
Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden), Marianne
(pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
marianne kuiper milks on sat 19 nov 05
Hello Frank, Thank you for writing. One of the things
I asked a while back, was whether I could tell from
color/surface where the kiln was in terms of correct
temp. reached. So, in a way, I was not looking in the
wrong direction. And i have certainly noticed the
differences in color - sometimes very rapid changes.
I'll print it off: another trophy for my new firing
shed. Thanks!
Marianne. Cute emil address..
--- Frank Colson wrote:
> Marianne- The perfect answer to understanding what
> temps you are at in your
> kiln firing is to recognize "heat color". This way
> you know you are in the
> ball park no matter what your pyrometer shows! A
> free Color Temperature
> Chart is available at: www.R2D2u.com Just scroll
> to
> the bottom of the opening page and download this
> helpful color guide.
>
> Frank Colson
> www.R2D2u.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marianne kuiper milks"
>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:49 PM
> Subject: question about judging temperatures
>
>
> > I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was
> also my
> > 2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
> > However: I have a question about something
> confusing.
> >
> > I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
> > (06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of
> the
> > kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I have
> > bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was
> told
> > would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am
> thinking
> > that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy
> the
> > more expensive one.
> >
> > I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
> > When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by
> 1940
> > nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top
> peep
> > the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
> > decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> > slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to
> do,
> > because I had to choose between the average temp
> and
> > the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3
> pieces at
> > the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I
> intend
> > to low-fire them later. And because I really like
> > them.
> >
> > I don't want to bug Axner, because they were
> really
> > good to me with the exchange of a tile setter that
> > arrived broken: they replaced it richly. However:
> I
> > think I'm going to save up for the better type
> digital
> > pyrometer.
> >
> > In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions
> what I
> > should do re the inconsistency between the read
> temp
> > (I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone 06
> was
> > down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
> > (wine??) :)
> >
> > Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden), Marianne
> > (pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Frank Colson on sat 19 nov 05
Wonder why? Just because pyrometers get coated with carbon during reduction
firings, as temperature rises, normally provides
a false reading! Is this any reason to have cones in place? YOU BET! Of
course , focusing on the mechanics of the pyrometer is one
way to be distracted from the truth of the flames within the kiln.
Frank Colson
www.R2D2u.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dannon rhudy"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: question about judging temperatures
> You MUST go by what the cones tell you.
> The pyrometer is probably accurate at bisque
> temps, but it may not be and sometimes they
> need adjusting. There are instructions with
> the pyrometer. Those less expensive ones work
> fine, but sometimes they don't last as long. At
> higher temps pyrometers are notoriously in-
> accurate, but at 1800F or so, they are mostly
> accurate.
>
> If your kiln is heating unevenly, you will know
> if you have placed cone packs here and there
> throughout the kiln, so that you can see them
> after the firing. If the middle is cold, or the
> bottom, or wherever, the cone packs will alert
> you.
>
> If you fire more slowly, you are more likely to
> have even temps, once you get the hang of adjusting
> your damper (hole in the top, in this case).
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marianne kuiper milks"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:49 PM
> Subject: question about judging temperatures
>
>
> > I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was also my
> > 2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
> > However: I have a question about something confusing.
> >
> > I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
> > (06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of the
> > kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I have
> > bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was told
> > would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am thinking
> > that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy the
> > more expensive one.
> >
> > I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
> > When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by 1940
> > nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top peep
> > the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
> > decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> > slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to do,
> > because I had to choose between the average temp and
> > the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3 pieces at
> > the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I intend
> > to low-fire them later. And because I really like
> > them.
> >
> > I don't want to bug Axner, because they were really
> > good to me with the exchange of a tile setter that
> > arrived broken: they replaced it richly. However: I
> > think I'm going to save up for the better type digital
> > pyrometer.
> >
> > In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions what I
> > should do re the inconsistency between the read temp
> > (I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone 06 was
> > down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
> > (wine??) :)
> >
> > Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden), Marianne
> > (pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> > ---
> > ---
> >
> >
>
> ---
> ---
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Paul Gerhold on sun 20 nov 05
Marianne,
There is no real relationship between the temp a pyrometer measures and the
cone reading. The pyrometer measures temperature and the cones basically
measure heat work or the amount of energy that the cone absorbs (and hopefully
the pot). Cones are the way to go if you are trying to replicate results. Use
the pyrometer as a rough guide as to when to start looking at the cones.
With time and as your firings become more consistant the pyrometer becomes
more useful but is still never the right answer unless your glazes have a
really wide (3 or more cones) firing range. Also, there is no real advantage to
the expensive pyrometers for the uses potters put pyrometers to.
Using draw rings that you pull out of the kiln to check the progress of the
glaze or clay is an old fashioned but very good approach as well.
Paul
marianne kuiper milks on sun 20 nov 05
So much to learn. Amazing though, when I think about
it: 3 yrs ago I didn't even know what a cone was(for).
I do rely first on the cones, let the pyrometer guide
the roughstough.
The message of patience - and firing slower - seems to
come through from all of you. My mother would have
been so proud...who ever says that you can't teach an
old wench new tricks?
I did not like at all, however, that only the 1st cone
was down and out, yet the pieces (14" tall) were
over-fired and smokey at their tops. I hope it takes
glaze, and wonder whether wetting it before glazing
(sponge) would make it more successful-adhere better
to the object. So I question how to fix that for now:
if the cone is not down but the pyr. says something
different at various heights...which trail do I
follow? Always the cone? But that's exactly what I did
last time.
Dannon spoke of having the temp go up slowly. but i
don't know what that means. one degree per 1-3
seconds, roughly? That's what I did. Wrong? Right? I
have no idea. What if it drops and continue to drop?
Raise the gas? I really am trying and know i will
succeed eventually.
And do you treat the heating up process differently
with biscue or a ^6 glaze load? I really read so much
about it, but once you jump in the water, the Klutz
Guide To Swimming may not help much!
OK. A new week, new errors, new excitements and new
successes. I appreciate the time you guys take!! I'll
treat you to lunch in Portland. Marianne
--- Frank Colson wrote:
> Wonder why? Just because pyrometers get coated with
> carbon during reduction
> firings, as temperature rises, normally provides
> a false reading! Is this any reason to have cones
> in place? YOU BET! Of
> course , focusing on the mechanics of the pyrometer
> is one
> way to be distracted from the truth of the flames
> within the kiln.
>
> Frank Colson
> www.R2D2u.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dannon rhudy"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 PM
> Subject: Re: question about judging temperatures
>
>
> > You MUST go by what the cones tell you.
> > The pyrometer is probably accurate at bisque
> > temps, but it may not be and sometimes they
> > need adjusting. There are instructions with
> > the pyrometer. Those less expensive ones work
> > fine, but sometimes they don't last as long. At
> > higher temps pyrometers are notoriously in-
> > accurate, but at 1800F or so, they are mostly
> > accurate.
> >
> > If your kiln is heating unevenly, you will know
> > if you have placed cone packs here and there
> > throughout the kiln, so that you can see them
> > after the firing. If the middle is cold, or the
> > bottom, or wherever, the cone packs will alert
> > you.
> >
> > If you fire more slowly, you are more likely to
> > have even temps, once you get the hang of
> adjusting
> > your damper (hole in the top, in this case).
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Dannon Rhudy
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "marianne kuiper milks"
>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:49 PM
> > Subject: question about judging temperatures
> >
> >
> > > I just fired my second gaskiln load, which was
> also my
> > > 2nd bisque load. It was exciting!
> > > However: I have a question about something
> confusing.
> > >
> > > I intended to fire to ^o4. I put three cones
> > > (06,05,04) in a row in the middle(vertically) of
> the
> > > kiln, close enoughto the peep to see them. I
> have
> > > bought the Axner digital pyrometer, which I was
> told
> > > would be just as good as the $300+ one. I am
> thinking
> > > that was a mistake, since I had the money to buy
> the
> > > more expensive one.
> > >
> > > I checked at different vertical levels as I
> fired.
> > > When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by
> 1940
> > > nothing more had happened. Measuring from the
> top peep
> > > the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference).
> I
> > > decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> > > slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to
> do,
> > > because I had to choose between the average temp
> and
> > > the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3
> pieces at
> > > the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I
> intend
> > > to low-fire them later. And because I really
> like
> > > them.
> > >
> > > I don't want to bug Axner, because they were
> really
> > > good to me with the exchange of a tile setter
> that
> > > arrived broken: they replaced it richly.
> However: I
> > > think I'm going to save up for the better type
> digital
> > > pyrometer.
> > >
> > > In the mean time, does anyone have suggestions
> what I
> > > should do re the inconsistency between the read
> temp
> > > (I read both oC and oF) and the fact that cone
> 06 was
> > > down? TemP Cones? Time? Marshmellow consistency?
> > > (wine??) :)
> > >
> > > Thanks, friends, (dank je wel, vrienden),
> Marianne
> > > (pronounced Mah-ree-ah-nuh. Thanks!!)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> > > ---
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Lee Love on mon 21 nov 05
On 2005/11/20 21:39:25, gerholdclay@aol.com wrote:
> Using draw rings that you pull out of the kiln to check the progress of
> the
> glaze or clay is an old fashioned but very good approach as well.
My experience is that the tile pulls are more accurate than the cones
because you are actually judging the maturity of the glaze by looking at
it. My teacher never depends on the cones or pyrometer alone.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"The way we are, we are members of each other. All of us. Everything.
The difference ain't in who is a member and who is not, but in who knows
it and who don't."
--Burley Coulter (Wendell Berry)
Jennifer Boyer on mon 28 nov 05
I'm not sure what you are asking, but my own 40 cu but gas kiln is VERY
uneven at low temps. I would be hard pressed to try to bisk fire in it.
The bottom starts out cold and gradually works it's way to catching up
with the top once I get over about come 6. Maybe it wasn't a problem
with the pyrometer? Or were you saying that the cones were reading
correctly and the pyrometer was way off? My experience with gas kilns(I
use propane) is that heat rising is the main dynamic in the kiln in
the first half of the firing. You may want to change your bagwalls for
bisk firing to keep the heat in the bottom more than in a glaze
firing..
Jennifer, just guessing
On Nov 18, 2005, at 7:49 PM, marianne kuiper milks wrote:
>
> I checked at different vertical levels as I fired.
> When it came to 1894o, cone 06 was down, but by 1940
> nothing more had happened. Measuring from the top peep
> the temp was MUCH higher (too big a difference). I
> decided to turn the kiln off and let it cool off
> slowly. I feel that this was the right thing to do,
> because I had to choose between the average temp and
> the cone. At least the one was down! I had 3 pieces at
> the top that I didn't want to overfire, since I intend
> to low-fire them later. And because I really like
> them.
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
| |
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