Richard Mahaffey on sat 3 dec 05
Lee, You did not ask me but I am replying anyway..........
For me travel filters into my work but it takes a long time. This slow
process happens and I don't notice it until someone points something out.
I lived in Japan in '96 and had traveled there in '82 and again in 1998
and 2001. Sometime in '02 someone said looking at some pots that I had
made, "I see you have been looking at Japanese pots". I responded,
yes I have, I have had Japanese pots around me before I went to Japan
(My dad was an Antique dealer in San Francisco), but I realized that my
travels to Japan had crept into my work.
I am going to China next year for the second time so maybe in a couple
of years someone will say something about Chinese ceramics causing a
change in my work.
For me the real change is that my travels and friendships abroad have
opened my mind and caused me to appreciate work that did not appeal to
my before. This is my case for context being important to
appreciation for me. The highly decorated work I saw in Turkey did not
interest me in books or even in the Brundage Collection in San Francisco
(which I looked at several times while growing up there), but after
seeing the work and people making it and begining to understand the
culture and traditions (been there twice now and want to go again) I am
liking that work more and more, not to make, but I get so much more from
it now................
Sorry it is late and we had a full day and I am rambling, so I will say
goodnight,
Rick
Lee Love on sun 4 dec 05
Thanks Rick!
The thing that living here has done for me that my two, 2 month long
visits didn't, was make me aware of how "American" I am. It has also
given me an appreciation for the really diverse community of clay people
I left behind in Minnesota.
Here is something interesting, that I only recently started to figure
out, and it is related to a cosmopolitan world view: The primary pottery
I am interested in here in Japan, has been in one way or another,
associated with crosscultural influences. Dogen, the founder of my zen
school (the Soto school) brought the first tenmoku pottery back to Japan
from Tien-mu-Shan, "mountain of the Eye of Heaven," a mountain in
Chechiang province, China. A monk that traveled with him, Kato
Shirozaemon Kagemasa, brought the secret of Chinese celadon back to
Japan and started making the first truly glazed ware in the kilns he
built in Seto in 1228.
Sen No Rikyu, the Tea Master from the same neighborhood as my
birthplace, brought Korean Yi work to the attention of the Japanese
followers of tea, and helped the feudal lords brink hostage potters from
Korea to Hagi and Karatsu, along with their noborigama technology. Rikyu
also discovered black seto and Raku. He may have encouraged the first
plain shino work in Mino. His successor, Tea Master Furuta Oribe
developed E-shino and Oribe, inspired by white Korean work and also
their iron and copper decorated ware. I imagine that Oribe came from the
Mino potters tying to copy Korean red copper decorated porcelainious
stoneware. But because their kilns fired in oxidation, they came out green.
Shino was made for less than 60 years. The folks that worked the kilns
in Shino and Oribe kilns in Mino were probably the first artist potters
in Japan. They were influenced by the new technology, as well as the
pots, that was brought to Korea from Japan. Many of the works we like
the best from the ancient anagama kilns were chosen by the same tea
masters for use in tea. Folks who had a broad, cosmopolitan education.
So all these pots I like the best, came from the meetings of two or more
cultures. In Japan, when the outside influences stopped effecting the
work, be became stale and cliched. When they started saying "We
Japanese", they started loosing their vitality.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is
rounded with a sleep."
--PROSPERO Tempest Shakespeare
Hank Murrow on sun 4 dec 05
On Dec 4, 2005, at 6:33 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> I imagine that Oribe came from the
> Mino potters tying to copy Korean red copper decorated porcelainious
> stoneware. But because their kilns fired in oxidation, they came out
> green.
Dear Lee;
I saw an Oribe piece in the Guimet Museum in Paris in which the overlap
between clear and copper glaze had turned copper red. One can see fine
examples of both reduction and oxidation pieces from the old anagamas.
>
> Shino was made for less than 60 years. The folks that worked the kilns
> in Shino and Oribe kilns in Mino were probably the first artist potters
> in Japan. They were influenced by the new technology, as well as the
> pots, that was brought to Korea from Japan.
The reason the Shino seemed to disappear after two generations is that
the second noborigama (multichamber kiln) courtesy of the Korean
potters was built in Mino, and the hotter temperatures and shorter
firing made the Shino glaze go grey and transparent.... requiring much
more decoration in order to be interesting. Thus, technology killed
Shino and gave birth to Oribe.
Then, in the thirties, Arakawa resurrected Shino on the site of the
original kilns. The way he did it was to build an anagama kiln like the
Kato family used there to make Shino wares during Momoyama times. He
used the traditional Shino/Oribe materials, fired in a similar kiln.
Interestingly, he also made yellow Seto and Black pulled-Seto in this
kiln.
> Many of the works we like
> the best from the ancient anagama kilns were chosen by the same tea
> masters for use in tea. Folks who had a broad, cosmopolitan education.
>
> So all these pots I like the best, came from the meetings of two or
> more
> cultures. In Japan, when the outside influences stopped effecting the
> work, be became stale and cliched. When they started saying "We
> Japanese", they started loosing their vitality.
Good point made here. Worth pondering for ourselves and our work.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Lee Love on mon 5 dec 05
Hank Murrow wrote:
> I saw an Oribe piece in the Guimet Museum in Paris in which the overlap
> between clear and copper glaze had turned copper red. One can see fine
> examples of both reduction and oxidation pieces from the old anagamas.
Hank,
I think the Oribe was fired in the newly introduced noborigama.
The Shino fired in Mino were small anagama. I think you corrected me
one time when I mistakenly said Shino was fired in noborigama. I don't
think the little anagama fired in heavy reduction, but the new
noborigama were probably neutral to oxidation.
>
> more decoration in order to be interesting. Thus, technology killed
> Shino and gave birth to Oribe.
I read somewhere, that kilns were abandoned in Mino and that the
noborigama were built in Seto. There are political reasons for
this. Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi , and Furuta Oribe were from Mino,
which is a different prefecture from Seto. Mino was Nobunaga's home
prefecture and he controlled it. The potters who built the Shino
kilns in Mino were offered protection by Nobunaga. Work at Seto was not
possible at the time because of the warfare going on there. After
Hideyoshi consolidated the country, the warfare eased in Japan. The
final wars were between Hideyoshi's followers and Tokugawa's. It
could be, that peace caused the demise of Shino ware. Probably didn't
help that Hideyoshi ordered Rikyu killed and Tokugawa order Oribe killed.
Another thing that happened, was that the noborigama in Seto made
tableware affordable for the first time in Japan. So probably,
economics help shut down the less efficient Shino anagama kilns. Some
of the Shino-E (picture shino) work is highly decorated in Iron,
scraffito and dipped slip.
Rick, even is the copper content is high, in reduction,
because Oribe was used over other glazes, I am guessing it would go
red on the edges like Hank's example. In traditional Japan,
green and blue were the same color. In fact, the stoplights are
red:/blue/yellow, not red/green/yellow. In a way, you could say
that Oribe was the poorman's blue. ;-)
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Human subtlety will never devise an invention more beautiful,
more simple or more direct than does Nature,
because in her inventions, nothing is lacking and nothing is superfluous."
--Leonardo da Vinci
Steve Irvine on mon 5 dec 05
i've noticed a shift in priorities while travelling over the years. Twenty years ago, during trips to
England and Australia, I wanted to see as many potters as possible; to discuss their work with
them and talk about approaches to creative process. I found in more recent trips to Denmark,
Norway and Japan that I organized only a few visits to potters.
I seemed to be looking for something else -- and found I was being drawn to Viking burial
grounds in northern Denmark, and the architecture of Norwegian stave churches and Japanese
castles. These kinds of things are certainly less specific to clay, but are important just the same as
subliminal touch stones of form and volume possibilities.
They become references in the search, to bring the work more into harmony with universal human
themes. The process, the search itself, becomes the main point of it all in the end.
Steve
http://www.steveirvine.com
lela martens on tue 6 dec 05
Hi Steve!
That`s hitting a commonality!
I have many cousins and friends in Denmark, have been three times and
planning another trip in 2006. I will go with a friend whose main thing is
galleries. Mine is castles, the burial mounds you speak of and of course the
local potteries. I will leave that part of the planning to my cousins..they
know their potteries as well as they know the neighbourhood flowershop or
baker.
And of course my cousin, the weaver`s hubby knows and teaches all about the
old churches and relics..
I really notice now how much my heritage influences my work in clay.
It`s almost enough to make me believe in re-incarnation.
Did you meet Holger Dansk in Hamlet`s castle?
Best wishes from Lela, where the weather is just a bugger. The weather
person on the news doesn`t even want to talk about it, presuming he can get
his car started to get to work.So I am curling up with the cat.
>They become references in the search, to bring the work more into harmony
with universal human
>themes. The process, the search itself, becomes the main point of it all in
>the end.
>
>Steve
>http://www.steveirvine.com
>
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Steve Irvine on tue 6 dec 05
Hi Lela,
Copenhagen is one of my favourite cities in the world; I envy your trip there next year. My main
reason for going to Denmark was to see the Gundestrup Cauldron in the National Museum. I spent
the better part of a day sitting beside it in the museum, taking it in. The Viking burial ground
mentioned is Lindholm Hoje in Norresundby, on the outskirts of Aalborg. Perhaps you've been
there? A remarkable site, and an excellent interpretive centre museum, well worth the trip up to
Jutland, and you can sample some of the famous schnapps "at source" while in Aalborg. I only saw
Hamlet's Castle from the water while en route to Oslo... next time.
Steve
http://www.steveirvine.com
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 05:46:37 +0000, lela martens wrote:
>Hi Steve!
>That`s hitting a commonality!
>I have many cousins and friends in Denmark, have been three times and
>planning another trip in 2006. I will go with a friend whose main thing is
>galleries. Mine is castles, the burial mounds you speak of and of course the
>local potteries. I will leave that part of the planning to my cousins..they
>know their potteries as well as they know the neighbourhood flowershop or
>baker.
>And of course my cousin, the weaver`s hubby knows and teaches all about the
>old churches and relics..
>I really notice now how much my heritage influences my work in clay.
>It`s almost enough to make me believe in re-incarnation.
>Did you meet Holger Dansk in Hamlet`s castle?
>
>Best wishes from Lela, where the weather is just a bugger. The weather
>person on the news doesn`t even want to talk about it, presuming he can get
>his car started to get to work.So I am curling up with the cat.
>
> >They become references in the search, to bring the work more into harmony
>with universal human
>>themes. The process, the search itself, becomes the main point of it all in
>>the end.
>>
>>Steve
>>http://www.steveirvine.com
Marcia Selsor on tue 6 dec 05
My favorite travel is in Spain looking at Romanesque churches. I find
the sculpture to be significant themes
of psychology of the human experience and I love the patterns. I also
love the tranquility inside these places especially in the cities
where the outside bombardment is unnerving. I appreciate the great
accomplishments of Domenic i Montenich and Gaudi.
I also love the Moorish influences of tile and pattern in
architecture in Spain, Middle East and central Asia.
I love playing with pattern translating it into either the texture or
color onto columns. Italy's patterns to me are the Cyprus trees on
ridges, vineyards and groves on steep hillsides and soft undulating
curves of the terrain in the early morning or at dusk.
Lately after my Hawaiian experience, I am interested in carving
foliage in porcelain during the cold winter in Montana.
Maybe it reminds me of warmth. There were really interesting leaves
with spore patterns that were totally new to me.
Also volcanoes and lava and ice have been a reoccurring attempt in
sculpture for the past few years after my residency in Iceland and
Hawaii.
I have been experimenting with wollastonite fiber, nasty stuff but
can glisten like snow.
Visual people respond to travel experiences in fascinating ways. This
has been an interesting thread for me to follow.
Best wishes,
marcia in Montana and the snow!
lela martens on tue 6 dec 05
Hey Steve,
Yes, I have been to the national museum and saw the Gundestrup Cauldron, and
did the same as you. Sat in wonder. The burial ground my cousin took us to
is in the Molls, west Jutland. He also took us to a ruins called Kalo.. The
history just seeps into the soul.
What got me was that there was no graffitti, no defacing, little `fencing
off`..
I think it is because there is an inborn respect for the history we don`t
have here, at least not yet.
Alisa`s Clause man took us to Koldinghus. Did you see that! I had been there
before with my kids, driven by an uncle, but mountain man just had to see
and he still dosn`t have the words.
The whole place is a fairytale wonderland museum.. Copenhagen my favourite .
The walk down the main street, New Haven and then on to the little
mermaid...But! On the way I discovered Gyfion!
Now if people are talking art! Honestly, that piece brings tears to my eyes.
I buy a Danish weinerbrod and just stare for an hour.
Yes, Steve, I know snapps..don`t drink normaly, but that stuff is just
wonderful, and even mountain man agreed that pickled herring on Danish
bread is a gift from the gods. He still hasn`t made it to esrom cheese
though, says he will not eat anything that smells worse than his socks.
I can hardly wait. The `Old Town` in Aarhus, etc.
My friend Ole on the west coast that has rebuilt his thatched roof farm
house built in around 1500. He recreates the ancient `black pots` for
museums there.
I was thinking about NCECA being close this year, but heart is in Denmark
and $ only go so far.
Ohh, now I`m getting warmed up, even in this prairie cold..
best wishes,
Lela
ps, Holger Dansk will still be sitting, waiting for you till you get there
next time. He will rise again the next time Denmark is invaded..Vikings..
sigh
>Hamlet's Castle from the water while en route to Oslo... next time.
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Lee Love on wed 7 dec 05
I like to try and show folks nature around Mashiko. Usually though,
because people are only here a day or two, it isn't possible. To
undstand traditional pottery, you have to see the landscape where it
came from. It explains a lot.
Here are some shots from Samyoji temple (it is a temple on the 33 temple
pligrimage.) It dates from the 8th century.
Some photos here:
http://daishizen.blogspot.com/
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
--Leonardo da Vinci
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