mel jacobson on tue 13 dec 05
there are many that cut their ceramic teeth through a guild
an art center or junior college/community program.
they should be starting points, learning points. they should
not be long term solutions to being a fine crafts person or potter.
the place of these studios is rich and needed. critical in getting folks
started in craft. they are not long term solutions.
i have a strong feeling that when a person takes that step
to ownership of the tools and equipment to be a potter...that
is the day you become one. it is about commitment.
i know all the arguments against what i say.
`oh, mel, i don't have the room, or i can't afford it, or my husband
does not want the mess, or my wife does not tolerate my hobbies.`
it goes on and on forever...the built in excuse. someone else is holding
you back.
i have spent a few years on the board of a very large community art center
here in minnetonka. i had to get to know the clay program as we fired
(cone 10)
the director, and i had to step in and make things work...short term, about
six months. the things that i discovered, and of course knew anyway were:
the classes were really clubs. private clubs. new members were not wanted
or encouraged. folks used the art center as personal studios. the teacher
was the leader of the club.
the club went out for drinks together, had parties, had shows/juried/
and you know who got their pots in the show. the classes were filled
the first day with members of the club. `sorry, ceramics tuesday is filled`.
when i suggested that we run a course in `cutting loose` (from the center,
buying your own kiln, wheel etc).` it was like shock and awe. `what,
us leave the center, have a drop in attendance...what in the hell are
you talking about dorko?` (remember this is a very, very wealthy community.
some those folks could afford a 50 foot studio, with everything.)
the truth was that we had hundreds of people that wanted to be a part
of the art center, but could not get through the barriers of feeling like
they did not belong. so, our system was keeping people out, not in.
this is often the case with guilds...they become very exclusive clubs.
most of the members spend a great deal of time running the guild and
about twenty minutes a month doing clay. `oh, i want to make more
pots, but i have to work on bylaws for the next three years.`
and, of course these associations drag in many folks that really do not
care for the craft...they want to belong and organize others...soon the
president is a person that has never touched clay, and does not want to.
she or he wants to run a guild.
the same sickness hits teaching. `oh, i have no time to do art, i teach
all day...i have to be near my students..i used to do art.` now tell me...
how the hell do you keep competent, and current in art if you do not ever
do it? it is the biggest cop/out in the world. when you do art with your
students, so they can see you do it...they work ten times harder. and,
your art world brightens.
every guild, art center should have a philosophy that the best and brightest
are encouraged to move on...make a studio, take the plunge. if i ran a guild
i would set up a scholarship to help folks move on. a new member always
takes their place. that is how the guild grows...new and exciting members.
often the best and brightest hold back others. `oh, my...i just can never
be as good as grace, she is our star.` bs. when you go to those places and
visit as i do...i hear it all the time...they push me over to grace, and they
tell me about her history, her shows, her skill...`they live through grace`.
(sounds like a religious anointment.) and, then i say...`show me your work
and tell me what you are doing.` and then they continue to talk about grace
and her work.
it is very clear that many love to work at guilds and centers. the excuse
is that being with people makes me want to work. then it becomes the
excuse for social interchange. art, craft is personal...it is alone time. it
is serious stuff. that is what the commitment is...you and the craft...alone
to make serious decisions. then you are the winner.
anyway. this should start good thought and debate.
if you are a serious guild member, take stock of what you are doing...how
much time do you give to guilding, and how much time do you devote
to your own work? ask the hard questions. and, why don't you have
your own space if you are a potter?
some will get angry with me...right off the bat...`he is knocking our guild
that
ass#^%&.` but, i am not. the guild, the art center is critical to many.
it is just not a forty year place to work. it takes courage to step on out.
make a place for yourself...reach that third and fourth floor. you will never
get past the first floor it you work only at the guild or art center.
and, remember...that glaze room, kiln room at the guild or center is run
by others. when your pot comes back...you own only half of it.
group firing is just that....group firing. you get maybe 5 out of 90
pots fired. i cannot even conceive of having my pots in someone else's kiln
with someone else's glazes on them...it is beyond my own imagination.
mel
it would be like winning first place at the state fair art show for a
pot that came from a community kiln, fired by a tech, using malcolm
davis shino...and your pot was in that perfect sweet spot in a kiln
that you had nothing to do with. i would be so embarrassed to accept
a blue ribbon under those conditions...phew...fraud.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://my.pclink.com/~melpots3
marianne kuiper milks on tue 13 dec 05
What, in my experience, makes students and art centers succesfull?
In the Netherlands I was, at a very (obnoxious) young age the first director of the first music school on a little island. (Marken). When I left 3 years later for the USA, there were 247 students.
It had always been my dream/wish to have such a center in the USA, where this is much easier (i.e. in Europe you have to be approverd/subsidized by hundreds of boards & committees..) here you have to prove capable of a number of things: the artistry and all, organization, clout or charisma and the ability to talk fast to those with money. But your abilities speak highest. (I hope!)
Here in Honesdale I began an art center in 1985. We offered group music instruction (Kindermusic, Orff, Chorus, folkdancing and chamber music) as well as private music lessons. Many, many artists/musicians were involved. In addition there were ceramics classes (no, I never HAD time: I was teaching, running the school and performing with and without my students), painting, life-drawing space for prof. artists, writing...more-more-more...the whole bit.
i felt very strongly about the support system the music program offered. The reason was that parents easily invest in 10 years of piano lessons, 5 years of trumpet instruction, 6 years in the youth chamber group. We NEEDED that income: we did not have wealthy people to support us. Reason: this town is ruled by those who have their penny invested in the bank. I was new and so were most artists in this area. I needed and spent my penny.
Rarely does someone sign a child up for drawing, intending the child to draw, with daily assignments, for the coming 8 years.
We had a large artist community to draw from. Unbelievable. But no funding, even though we were a member of the National Guild for Community Schools for the Arts. The board sat there, except two members who were very active. In a community of 5000, recourses are limited! We had, on the average of a year, 400-500 students in classes/lessons, ages 1.5 through sr.citizens., and a summer daycamp.
For our levels one and two, we had a "new student" sign up day before repeat students could sign in. In addition, we had "open classes" available for all others. Choices as well as openings for the new we needed so badly.
As a musician, my emphasis with each class, regardless of level, was on educaytion. Step-by-step. My motto, all my life, has been: "I do not teach (music), I teach people" And from the ground up, step by step. The purpose, as Mel said: send someone on or on their way being able to do an understand each step. Do it well Instructors were only to do things for students if safety was involved. That was one of the few "rules" I enforced with the staff.
Perhaps this is why it deeply angers me when I am/was not taught that way. You end up with holes in your socks. You don't know how to mend them, they hurt and eventually discourage you from going somewhere.
I think I am a very kind and patient teacher. But I NEVER compromise on my quality teaching and my expectations according to the ability of each. I've done many wrong things in my life, but that is not one of them. Because I am not lazy, which I believe is, like burn-out, one of the greatest enemies of instructors. I need to remember that I was also raising 4 young children and more.
Of course it had a price, like everything. In 1989 I had my first serious breakdown and had to leave the art center. Someone else took over, with the assurance that it was time for change, anyway. Things should be easier...accommodate what the people wanted. I left in February. The doors closed permanently the end of May.
Is that the end? not really. People throughout the USA (Philly Art Acad..Manhattan Sch of Music, UofM sch of Mus, Oberlin etc etc) have often asked "what IS it about that area, that it has produced SO many excellent artists and musicians!"
Dunno. Good artists here., Dozens of good teachers. Proud teachers who do their job.
mel jacobson wrote: there are many that cut their ceramic teeth through a guild
an art center or junior college/community program.
they should be starting points, learning points. they should
not be long term solutions to being a fine crafts person or potter.
the place of these studios is rich and needed. critical in getting folks
started in craft. they are not long term solutions.
i have a strong feeling that when a person takes that step
to ownership of the tools and equipment to be a potter...that
is the day you become one. it is about commitment.
i know all the arguments against what i say.
`oh, mel, i don't have the room, or i can't afford it, or my husband
does not want the mess, or my wife does not tolerate my hobbies.`
it goes on and on forever...the built in excuse. someone else is holding
you back.
i have spent a few years on the board of a very large community art center
here in minnetonka. i had to get to know the clay program as we fired
(cone 10)
the director, and i had to step in and make things work...short term, about
six months. the things that i discovered, and of course knew anyway were:
the classes were really clubs. private clubs. new members were not wanted
or encouraged. folks used the art center as personal studios. the teacher
was the leader of the club.
the club went out for drinks together, had parties, had shows/juried/
and you know who got their pots in the show. the classes were filled
the first day with members of the club. `sorry, ceramics tuesday is filled`.
when i suggested that we run a course in `cutting loose` (from the center,
buying your own kiln, wheel etc).` it was like shock and awe. `what,
us leave the center, have a drop in attendance...what in the hell are
you talking about dorko?` (remember this is a very, very wealthy community.
some those folks could afford a 50 foot studio, with everything.)
the truth was that we had hundreds of people that wanted to be a part
of the art center, but could not get through the barriers of feeling like
they did not belong. so, our system was keeping people out, not in.
this is often the case with guilds...they become very exclusive clubs.
most of the members spend a great deal of time running the guild and
about twenty minutes a month doing clay. `oh, i want to make more
pots, but i have to work on bylaws for the next three years.`
and, of course these associations drag in many folks that really do not
care for the craft...they want to belong and organize others...soon the
president is a person that has never touched clay, and does not want to.
she or he wants to run a guild.
the same sickness hits teaching. `oh, i have no time to do art, i teach
all day...i have to be near my students..i used to do art.` now tell me...
how the hell do you keep competent, and current in art if you do not ever
do it? it is the biggest cop/out in the world. when you do art with your
students, so they can see you do it...they work ten times harder. and,
your art world brightens.
every guild, art center should have a philosophy that the best and brightest
are encouraged to move on...make a studio, take the plunge. if i ran a guild
i would set up a scholarship to help folks move on. a new member always
takes their place. that is how the guild grows...new and exciting members.
often the best and brightest hold back others. `oh, my...i just can never
be as good as grace, she is our star.` bs. when you go to those places and
visit as i do...i hear it all the time...they push me over to grace, and they
tell me about her history, her shows, her skill...`they live through grace`.
(sounds like a religious anointment.) and, then i say...`show me your work
and tell me what you are doing.` and then they continue to talk about grace
and her work.
it is very clear that many love to work at guilds and centers. the excuse
is that being with people makes me want to work. then it becomes the
excuse for social interchange. art, craft is personal...it is alone time. it
is serious stuff. that is what the commitment is...you and the craft...alone
to make serious decisions. then you are the winner.
anyway. this should start good thought and debate.
if you are a serious guild member, take stock of what you are doing...how
much time do you give to guilding, and how much time do you devote
to your own work? ask the hard questions. and, why don't you have
your own space if you are a potter?
some will get angry with me...right off the bat...`he is knocking our guild
that
ass#^%&.` but, i am not. the guild, the art center is critical to many.
it is just not a forty year place to work. it takes courage to step on out.
make a place for yourself...reach that third and fourth floor. you will never
get past the first floor it you work only at the guild or art center.
and, remember...that glaze room, kiln room at the guild or center is run
by others. when your pot comes back...you own only half of it.
group firing is just that....group firing. you get maybe 5 out of 90
pots fired. i cannot even conceive of having my pots in someone else's kiln
with someone else's glazes on them...it is beyond my own imagination.
mel
it would be like winning first place at the state fair art show for a
pot that came from a community kiln, fired by a tech, using malcolm
davis shino...and your pot was in that perfect sweet spot in a kiln
that you had nothing to do with. i would be so embarrassed to accept
a blue ribbon under those conditions...phew...fraud.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://my.pclink.com/~melpots3
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Gail Dapogny on wed 14 dec 05
When I read a group of opinions pertaining to guilds on Clayart, I was
sort of amazed at the wealth of generalizations, strong opinionated
statements, advice focused at those (only) who are really serious,
courageous, committed artists, etc. I confess to being irritated since
I Clayart should be above this sort of thing, and feel that these
blanket generalizations demean all of us.
There is no common definition of a guild, and such an organization is
only as good as its members make it. Can it be a "long term solution"?
Of course it can! It depends upon how flexible, professional,
experienced, ambitious, and on and on. Is your group just a
space-renter? Is your group made up of a few rigid, self-righteous,
territorial jerks? Is your group one that wants merely to exchange
information. Is your group attempting to be a cooperative? There are
room for most of these (not the second, obviously.) but they work quite
differently from one another.
Our Potters' guild (Ann Arbor) is old (55 years), and is one that has
truly learned from past ventures, mistakes, ideas. It functions as a
true cooperative. Yet, we each have our tools, make our own glazes,
fire either with the group and/or independently. It is, as groups
go, quite professional with a number of potters who work more or less
full-time. It is amazingly diverse. Some members supplement with home
studios, many do not. We have several nationally known artists. We
have members who work very little. It works itself out. Members do
not take classes; they are reserved for our students who are often
extremely talented.
We have a complex work-point system in which the most productive
member-potters work the most (at guild tasks), but everyone has to do
certain things such as clay-making, cleaning, and various chair tasks.
In this day and age of energy costs, it makes sense to have a group
like this IF you make it work. Once a newcomer is voted in as a
permanent member, there is no further jurying, etc. We, however, feel
free to check in with one another regarding quality of work, new ideas,
etc.
In a nutshell:
We fire our 95 cubic foot gas kiln about 50 times a year.
We have two classes of about 15 students in each. they can come to the
guild anytime a member is there. They participate in clay-making, and
clean up their own messes. Each class has a well-qualified teacher
(usUally from outside), and a guild member lab assistant who helps the
students make clay, and sees that order is maintained.
We make some of our clay bodies, and also buy some. We have 4 clay
bodies. Everyone, including students, makes clay based on use.
We have three gas kilns, and two electric. Basically we fire gas at
cone 9-10, but there are those who choose to go
electric at various temps, both mid and low range. And of course
there are those who raku. While we have people
in charge of the different aspects of the guild (currently I am kiln
chair), we are not controllers; people can fire in
various ways, work in diverse ways, experiment, etc. They can
participate in sales or not, and are represented in galleries here
and there, as well as other sales.
Once a year, we decide whether or not to take in "adjunct" members. it
is highly dependent upon space. Those applying, present a small show
with a resume, statement, etc. Chosen adjunct members are "adjunct"
for 2 years. They work freely at the guild, and participate in sales.
They have keys and work just as permanent members do.
Basically, we want to see our adjunct members in the various endeavors
of the guild including sales, that they fit into the demands of the
cooperative comfortably. We want to see them taking initiative and
learning some of the nitty-gritty of loading and firing. and we want
to see regular clay work that shows growth and increasing professional
quality.
I am always aware of how much a "family" our guild is: a really classy
group of people who care about art and many other things, treat one
another compassionately, pitch in to help when needed, yet maintain
independence and individuality.
Incidentally, our most hard-working members (in terms of tasks), are
also our biggest producers. We simply do not have our guild set up
such that a few people are so hard-working that they no longer touch
clay or do so only now and then.
So do not believe all the generalizations. A guild or group or
whatever you choose to call it can be anything you want it it to be,
with freedom, flexibility, real quality.
Gail
Gail Dapogny
Ann Arbor, Michigan
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.claygallery.org/
http://www.pottersguild.net/
> What, in my experience, makes students and art centers succesfull?
>
>
> mel jacobson wrote: there are many that cut
> their ceramic teeth through a guild
> an art center or junior college/community program.
>
> they should be starting points, learning points. they should
> not be long term solutions to being a fine crafts person or potter.
> the place of these studios is rich and needed. critical in getting
> folks
> started in craft. they are not long term solutions.
>
> i have a strong feeling that when a person takes that step
> to ownership of the tools and equipment to be a potter...that
> is the day you become one. it is about commitment.
>
> i know all the arguments against what i say.
>
> `oh, mel, i don't have the room, or i can't afford it, or my husband
> does not want the mess, or my wife does not tolerate my hobbies.`
> it goes on and on forever...the built in excuse. someone else is
> holding
> you back.
>
> i have spent a few years on the board of a very large community art
> center
> here in minnetonka. i had to get to know the clay program as we fired
> (cone 10)
> the director, and i had to step in and make things work...short term,
> about
> six months. the things that i discovered, and of course knew anyway
> were:
> the classes were really clubs. private clubs. new members were not
> wanted
> or encouraged. folks used the art center as personal studios. the
> teacher
> was the leader of the club.
>
> the club went out for drinks together, had parties, had shows/juried/
> and you know who got their pots in the show. the classes were filled
> the first day with members of the club. `sorry, ceramics tuesday is
> filled`.
>
> when i suggested that we run a course in `cutting loose` (from the
> center,
> buying your own kiln, wheel etc).` it was like shock and awe. `what,
> us leave the center, have a drop in attendance...what in the hell are
> you talking about dorko?` (remember this is a very, very wealthy
> community.
> some those folks could afford a 50 foot studio, with everything.)
>
> the truth was that we had hundreds of people that wanted to be a part
> of the art center, but could not get through the barriers of feeling
> like
> they did not belong. so, our system was keeping people out, not in.
>
> this is often the case with guilds...they become very exclusive clubs.
> most of the members spend a great deal of time running the guild and
> about twenty minutes a month doing clay. `oh, i want to make more
> pots, but i have to work on bylaws for the next three years.`
> and, of course these associations drag in many folks that really do not
> care for the craft...they want to belong and organize others...soon the
> president is a person that has never touched clay, and does not want
> to.
> she or he wants to run a guild.
>
> the same sickness hits teaching. `oh, i have no time to do art, i
> teach
> all day...i have to be near my students..i used to do art.` now tell
> me...
> how the hell do you keep competent, and current in art if you do not
> ever
> do it? it is the biggest cop/out in the world. when you do art with
> your
> students, so they can see you do it...they work ten times harder. and,
> your art world brightens.
>
> every guild, art center should have a philosophy that the best and
> brightest
> are encouraged to move on...make a studio, take the plunge. if i ran
> a guild
> i would set up a scholarship to help folks move on. a new member
> always
> takes their place. that is how the guild grows...new and exciting
> members.
>
> often the best and brightest hold back others. `oh, my...i just can
> never
> be as good as grace, she is our star.` bs. when you go to those
> places and
> visit as i do...i hear it all the time...they push me over to grace,
> and they
> tell me about her history, her shows, her skill...`they live through
> grace`.
> (sounds like a religious anointment.) and, then i say...`show me
> your work
> and tell me what you are doing.` and then they continue to talk about
> grace
> and her work.
>
> it is very clear that many love to work at guilds and centers. the
> excuse
> is that being with people makes me want to work. then it becomes the
> excuse for social interchange. art, craft is personal...it is alone
> time. it
> is serious stuff. that is what the commitment is...you and the
> craft...alone
> to make serious decisions. then you are the winner.
>
> anyway. this should start good thought and debate.
> if you are a serious guild member, take stock of what you are
> doing...how
> much time do you give to guilding, and how much time do you devote
> to your own work? ask the hard questions. and, why don't you have
> your own space if you are a potter?
>
> some will get angry with me...right off the bat...`he is knocking our
> guild
> that
> ass#^%&.` but, i am not. the guild, the art center is critical to
> many.
> it is just not a forty year place to work. it takes courage to step
> on out.
> make a place for yourself...reach that third and fourth floor. you
> will never
> get past the first floor it you work only at the guild or art center.
>
> and, remember...that glaze room, kiln room at the guild or center is
> run
> by others. when your pot comes back...you own only half of it.
> group firing is just that....group firing. you get maybe 5 out of 90
> pots fired. i cannot even conceive of having my pots in someone
> else's kiln
> with someone else's glazes on them...it is beyond my own imagination.
> mel
> it would be like winning first place at the state fair art show for a
> pot that came from a community kiln, fired by a tech, using malcolm
> davis shino...and your pot was in that perfect sweet spot in a kiln
> that you had nothing to do with. i would be so embarrassed to accept
> a blue ribbon under those conditions...phew...fraud.
> from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
> website: http://my.pclink.com/~melpots3
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
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