Kathryn & Stuart Fields on sat 7 jan 06
Would like to hear opinions about the different brands of electric kilns
currently available. Will be firing ^5/6 AND ^10 and would like 7/8 cu.
Thought a Bailey was a good quality until they marketing babble was
explained to me -- the are not the 'only true ^10", etc. Also, have read
through lots of the archive and understand the need for 3" insulation and
all the electronic goodies. However, what I haven't seen are
opinions/experiences with the different brands/models.
Just now am looking seriously at the Paragon Viking 24. Thumbs up, thumbs
down? Alternatives? Experiences?
Kathy Fields
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 tech cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
eh@iwvisp.com
JOYCE LEE on sat 7 jan 06
Kathy is really interested in the Paragon Viking 24. We were both in
Casa Java this morning and she asked me about the Paragon. (Yes,
another desert claybud.... only a very few miles from my place. =
Exciting!)
My only electric kiln is the Cress and I did no research when I bought =
it
at show prices during a doll show down south next to Disneyland.
I had no idea about buying a kiln! Didn't even know that Fate had=20
stepped in and introduced me to My Destiny.
Cress provided a pound of clay with the
purchase and that cinched their sale....... no kidding. This was my =
first
ever hands-on with Real Clay. The wrong size furniture came with the =
cone 10
kiln. I was ignorant and enthralled at a kiln having little =
"furniture" (for the
pots to sit on?) The shelves were made for a much narrower kiln. I was =
under a spell,
in a state of Pure Enchantment. And so the adventure began........
Getting back to Friend Kathy's quest........ my first reaction was that =
I'd
heard good things about the Paragon, but for the life of me I can't =
recall any
specifics. Any Paragon owners out there willing to gift a claybud with
your valuable advice....... or opinions? She's much further along than =
I was
when I started (as was any insect that had bugged his way through a
desert clay bed).
Thank you for reading and thinking about responding.......
Joyce
In the Mojave desert of California USA where I am NOT alone.........
Maurice Weitman on sat 7 jan 06
At 7:20 AM -0800 on 1/7/06, Kathryn & Stuart Fields wrote:
>Would like to hear opinions about the different brands of electric kilns
>currently available. Will be firing ^5/6 AND ^10 and would like 7/8 cu.
>Thought a Bailey was a good quality until they marketing babble was
>explained to me -- the are not the 'only true ^10", etc. Also, have read
>through lots of the archive and understand the need for 3" insulation and
>all the electronic goodies. However, what I haven't seen are
>opinions/experiences with the different brands/models.
>Just now am looking seriously at the Paragon Viking 24. Thumbs up, thumbs
>down? Alternatives? Experiences?
Hello, Kathy.
I've owned a 10 cubic foot Bailey kiln for nearly two years. I
researched the bejabbers out of the available kilns of that size
before I purchased one.
My top considerations were (and still would be):
- Excellent components and construction
- High energy efficiency
- Bartlett controller
- Floor element
- Value
I'm not sure why you denigrate Bailey's "marketing babble," but
there's enough marketing-speak in all kiln vendor's literature to
make anyone leery. If the person who explained their claims to you
was a dealer, I understand why they don't like Bailey: they don't
sell it; only Bailey does.
Between Bailey and Paragon, here is my balance sheet:
I believe both are made very well. Paragon makes their own in Texas,
Bailey's are made by Evenheat in Michigan.
They both say "heavy duty" this and "heavy duty" that (elements,
stainless steel shell, etc.
I have had very good phone support from Bailey. Paragon's Arnold
Howard is on clayart and his support and information is generously
given and always helpful. I have not called Paragon except for
pre-sales questions two years ago.
Paragon's lid lifter as a standard feature is very nice. The fact
that it's sectional is a toss-up in my opinion. It's good to be able
to take it apart for moving and element replacement, but I prefer
one-piece for stability and energy efficiency. I've moved the kiln
twice, in a van, and have had no problems.
As I said, I strongly prefer Bailey's use of a Bartlett controller
over Orton's; I believe it's more flexible in programming and
features.
Bailey's has slightly more insulation, although I'd even prefer more.
Our utility rates are ridiculous and there's little reason to believe
it will be any better in the future.
Both use mercury relays and offer easy access to the wiring; one
hinges down, one swings sideways. Toss-up.
If you're going to use the kiln a lot, or for many years, I strongly
urge you to get S-type thermocouples. When I bought my kiln, Bailey
didn't offer it as an option. Maybe they do now. Paragon's web site
includes it as a $170 option (although it's not clear whether that's
each - which I suspect - or for all three). I bought S-type 'couples
from Orton for around $100 each. May have been $125.
I also would strongly urge you to install and use a vent, one in
which the fan is mounted where the vent exits the building, NOT under
the kiln. Both Bailey and Paragon sell such a vent.
I fire mostly to cone 6, but when I did use the Bailey for cone 10,
it worked very well. I would bet that the Viking would also perform
very well.
I plan to add extra insulation to my Bailey's lid and bottom; as I
said, I don't think one can have too much, within reason.
As I said at the top, I think they're both very well made and that
you'd be happy with either one. If I had to make the call again
today, I'd say I'd probably make the same choice.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Regards,
Maurice
Ever wonder what 2000 looks like?
Ken & Mely Yancey on sat 7 jan 06
Hi Kathryn, You might want to look at the website for L&L
Kilns. www.hotkilns.com
Here are the reasons I purchased an L&L J230.
1. Comes in three sections for easier transportation.
2. Other components like the controller and thermolcouples
are attached independently so there is no need to dismantle
the control box to replace the thermolcouples. (NICE!)
3. Elements are held in place with ceramic holders.
Replacing elements will be much easier when you can remove
each section of the kiln, then slide out the old elements
and slide in the new.
3. L&L J230 offers 3" brick, heavy duty elements, heavy duty
thermolcouples, and powered bottoms. All of which I suggest
you consider if you are to go to cone 10. I purchased these
options and I fire to cone ten in exactly the time the
manual suggests.
When the big truck arrives to deliver the kiln, I had
already paid about $50 extra so they would use a lift gate
and lower the kiln to the ground. That is all they would do.
I used a wheelbarrow padded with that grey pipe insulation
to move each section into my studio. Each section has
handles which makes it easier to assemble. With a one or two
piece kiln, you will always need help in moving or repairing
your kiln.
I am not a strong person, so the only help I needed was in
lifting the top section with the lid.
Another suggestion is to purchase the underneath vent
system. Among many other reasons, this will maximize the use
of the controller by eliminating the need to prop the lid
during the beginning phase.
It is just my opinion, but performance wise, all major
brands function as advertised without major problems. I have
used Paragons, Skutts and Jenkins at various places where I
have worked. But, for my own personal use I prefer a kiln
that comes in sections. That, I would say is my top
priority. Controller and ceramic holders come in second.
Again, this is just one persons' opinion. Hope it helps.
Ken
Kathryn & Stuart Fields wrote:
> Would like to hear opinions about the different brands of electric kilns
> currently available. Will be firing ^5/6 AND ^10 and would like 7/8 cu.
Lori Doty on sat 7 jan 06
On Jan 7, 2006, at 1:09 PM, JOYCE LEE wrote:
>
> Getting back to Friend Kathy's quest........ my first reaction was
> that I'd
> heard good things about the Paragon, but for the life of me I can't
> recall any
> specifics. Any Paragon owners out there willing to gift a claybud with
> your valuable advice....... or opinions? She's much further along
> than I was
> when I started (as was any insect that had bugged his way through a
> desert clay bed).
>
> Thank you for reading and thinking about responding.......
>
> Joyce
> In the Mojave desert of California USA where I am NOT alone.........
Kathy,
Well I don't have a Paragon 24 but do have a Paragon Viking 28 with a
computer controller and I love it. Big for one thing. I had out grown
my first kiln (diameter wise) in 1 year and my husband didn't want me
to out grow this one quickly. It goes to a full cone 10 and cools
slowly on its own even with the kiln vent on and running. Last glaze
firing took 13+hrs with a 30 minute soak at the end. Cooling took 3
more days for me to take pots out at 68 degrees.
The kiln came by tractor trailer to my house and in a crate that really
should have been unloaded with a Tommy gate but the truck didn't have
one. (driver was not a teamster and got to drive the non-lift truck
because there was some kind of teamster labor picketting at the time).
The kiln made it to ground without mishap though and uncrating that
thing was a full day of work even with friends helping so I didn't hurt
myself.
Since the Viking 28 is sectional getting it into the house wasn't a
problem but it does require 2 people to move each section. The
furniture that came with it are the correct size but ordering extra may
not be a bad idea if planning on doing a lot of firings with small flat
pieces so you don't run out of space to fire in.
I would also recommend you attend one of the kiln seminars that Paragon
gives to learn more about the kilns capabilities. I haven't had a
chance myself but am tempted to do so in the near (1 -2 years) future.
Since I live and work in Missouri and Paragon is in Texas I cannot do
this on a whim.
I hope this helps,
Lori Doty
Nurse/Potter
Slowly turning the tide.
Kathryn & Stuart Fields on sun 8 jan 06
Thanks everyone for all your assistance. I've copied off the specifics and
will use these to complete research. Understand about the tail gate on the
shipping truck -- been there with other very large equipment in our metal
shop, when we needed an oversized fork lift to complete the placement.
Question: what is a qualification for 'heavy duty elements"?
Question: what is an S type thermocouple and why is it important? I've read
that it is heavier duty than a type K, but that doesn't tell this novice
anything.
For the record, the Paragon Viking comes in 3 sections, has 3", 2400 degree
firebrick and a Sentry Electronic Controller. Also has available options on
Digital Model Only (I'm assuming mine would be digital): Upgrade to Type S
thermocouple; 3 Zone control, type K thermocouples; 3 Zone control, type S
thermocouples; RS232 port on digital kilns; AOP 240v outlet.
While I see the type S thermocouples are available, the rest is non-standard
English and I'll have to ask you again for a translation. (Is the RS232
port to be able to connect to my computer?)
Joyce: I'll see you on Tuesday.
Stuart & Kathryn Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585 / 8075 Seibenthal
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 tech cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
eh@iwvisp.com
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on sun 8 jan 06
I would recommend that you add a kiln sitter to your electronically
controlled kiln. This does 2 things-- it allows you to fire the kiln
manually if the controller fails, and if you use a small cone in the sitter
slightly warmer than your desired firing, it will shut off the kiln if it
gets too hot.
It used to cost about $100 more, and I think it's a cheap insurance policy.
Bonnie Hellman
mou10man@adelphia.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn & Stuart Fields"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: electric kiln preferences
> Thanks everyone for all your assistance. I've copied off the specifics
> and
> will use these to complete research. Understand about the tail gate on
> the
> shipping truck -- been there with other very large equipment in our metal
> shop, when we needed an oversized fork lift to complete the placement.
>
> Question: what is a qualification for 'heavy duty elements"?
> Question: what is an S type thermocouple and why is it important? I've
> read
> that it is heavier duty than a type K, but that doesn't tell this novice
> anything.
>
> For the record, the Paragon Viking comes in 3 sections, has 3", 2400
> degree
> firebrick and a Sentry Electronic Controller. Also has available options
> on
> Digital Model Only (I'm assuming mine would be digital): Upgrade to Type S
> thermocouple; 3 Zone control, type K thermocouples; 3 Zone control, type
> S
> thermocouples; RS232 port on digital kilns; AOP 240v outlet.
>
> While I see the type S thermocouples are available, the rest is
> non-standard
> English and I'll have to ask you again for a translation. (Is the RS232
> port to be able to connect to my computer?)
>
> Joyce: I'll see you on Tuesday.
>
>
> Stuart & Kathryn Fields
> Experimental Helo magazine
> P. O. Box 1585 / 8075 Seibenthal
> Inyokern, CA 93527
> (760) 377-4478 ph
> (760) 408-9747 publication cell
> (760) 608-1299 tech cell
> www.experimentalhelo.com
> eh@iwvisp.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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Arnold Howard on mon 9 jan 06
Heavy Duty Elements
The theory behind "heavy duty" elements is that generally the lower the
watts per square inch of element surface, the longer the element will last.
(circumference of element wire x length = element surface)
According to theory, the thicker the wire and the more pounds of element
wire in the kiln, the longer the element will last. The lower the watts per
square inch of element, the cooler the elements will fire. This is why
"heavy duty" elements do not glow as bright as "standard" elements.
S-Type Thermocouple
The S-Type platinum thermocouple is better suited for pottery than the
K-Type. Tim Frederick, formerly of Orton, told me that his S-type
thermocouple lasted many years with no sign of temperature drift. The K-type
thermocouple doesn't last nearly as long as the S-type. The K-type also
drifts in temperature as it ages. When the S-type fails, it is usually
because a shelf bumped into it. The S-type is fragile and made of very thin
wire.
RS 232
The RS232 is a computer port mounted to the kiln. You can monitor the kiln
from a computer and store a record of each firing on your hard drive.
AOP
The AOP (Auxiliary Output) is a 240 volt electrical outlet mounted to the
kiln. You can plug either a downdraft vent or an alarm into the AOP. In
Cone-Fire mode, you can select the vent to remain on during pre-heat, cone
firing, and slow cooling. It turns off automatically at 212F. Or you can
select the vent to turn off before slow cooling begins. In Ramp-Hold, you
can turn the vent on or off for each segment.
You can plug an external 240 volt buzzer and/or light into the AOP instead
of a vent. Select Alarm using the Options key. When the kiln reaches your
programmed alarm, the buzzer sounds.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
From: "Kathryn & Stuart Fields"
> Question: what is a qualification for 'heavy duty elements"?
> Question: what is an S type thermocouple and why is it important? I've
> read
> that it is heavier duty than a type K, but that doesn't tell this novice
> anything.
>
> For the record, the Paragon Viking comes in 3 sections, has 3", 2400
> degree
> firebrick and a Sentry Electronic Controller. Also has available options
> on
> Digital Model Only (I'm assuming mine would be digital): Upgrade to Type S
> thermocouple; 3 Zone control, type K thermocouples; 3 Zone control, type
> S
> thermocouples; RS232 port on digital kilns; AOP 240v outlet.
>
> While I see the type S thermocouples are available, the rest is
> non-standard
> English and I'll have to ask you again for a translation. (Is the RS232
> port to be able to connect to my computer?)
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