David Woof on sat 21 jan 06
The only way I'll remove a drum lid is to completely fill the drum with
water before cutting, sawing, gas or plasma torching, chiseling or grinding.
ANY of the known cutting methods can cause a spark and what ever
residule fumes (gasses) remain in the drum, or whatever fumes the cutting
heat generates, these fumes, trapped in that closed space turn the drum into
a bomb waiting for that spark.
While on this subject: the "flick your bic" type butane lighters have also
killed when a welding spark melted thru the plastic body while the lighter
was in someones pocket. (Osha warning).
David
_________________________________
_________________________________
David Woof Studio
Clarkdale, Arizona
Ph. 928-821-3747 Fax. 866-881-3461
________________________________
________________________________
peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
Joe Cooper on sat 21 jan 06
It seems to me that filling a drum with water actually condenses the
volatile fumes to an even more explosive level above the water line.
IF you simply must cut it, how about taking the whole mess outside so you
don't kill yourself, or at least don't blow up the building when you do so,
and run already-combusted exhaust fumes from a car or truck INTO and OUT OF
the drum for a while to empty it of the combustible fumes, and then
immediately cut it? Of course, you want to keep an air flow so you don't
gas yourself from the fumes.
Or, better yet, go buy a safe barrel, either a new one or one that hasn't
had anything combusible in it. The cost of hospitals and funerals are a lot
higher than the cost of barrels.
Work safe, live long.
Joe
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 21 jan 06
Hi Joe, all...
The small amount of room above the Water Line, is also the even smaller
amount of room which would be heated ( while at the Water line, to be cooled
BY the Water) by the immediate presence of a Oxy-Acetylene
Cutting Torch, and, it is those 'empty' Tanks and Barrels which do not have
a conspicuous odor of volatile past residues, which when "heated" tend to
release discrete but sufficient in numbers of molecules of the past
whatever, for the
filled-with-air-and-volatile mixture to ignite and in some rare cases, to in
effect, cause the Drum, Barrel or Tank to rupture or for the whole to be
said to
'explode'.
That is, 'explode' when the Drum, Barrel or Tank is closed entirely but for
some small bung or opening from whence it used to be filled or emptied. If
it has any larger openings, no 'explosion' would be possible.
Many Drums or Barrels rather, have lids or tops which are held on by a
annular clamp with an
over-center-locking handle, and these of course, can not explode if that
'lid' is off, no matter
how profound or pungent the odor or presence of ignitable fumes may be.
Your idea of filling an otherwise closed except for the bung-hole Drum with
Car exhaust, is an excellent idea.
Too, practioners have been known to use 'Dry Ice' to also displace otherwise
available Oxygen-Air...
Any inert or non-combustable Gas would do...as would filling it all but some
few inches from 'Full' with simple Water.
If filled with Water, and with an open Bung ( on top of course,) even if
fumes occur, and did ignite with three inches of head room,
they would do nothing to make surprises or problems...they would do more or
less nothing but make a little momentary 'poof' evident at the Bung Hole.
Bear in mind the rest of the Drum is NOT being heated for it's metal
interior to be liberating old molecules of the ( in this case, ) 'flammible'
shemical or whatever.
Since old Steel Barrels or Drums may have previously held
just-about-anything liquid, such as Malathian, DDT, Various Alcohols,
Methyl-bi-Bromide,
Esters of some kind, Ploy-Chlorinated bi-Phenols, Methyl Cyclopetane,
McDonald's "secret-sauce", Acids, Oils,
or god-knows-what, it is prudent to sniff them at least via the Bung to
arrive at some prospective opinion anyway, AND to make some determination if
in fact they are "empty" in a literal sense of not having some few inches
of liquid still IN them...so, to sniff anyway, to form some opinion, as to
whether one wishes to elect
"that" drum in particular, or to seek another one instead...whether the
scent suggests pre-se a potential flamability issue, or not.
Too, a simple, 'sharp' 3/4 inch or 1 inch Cold Chisel, and a suitable
Hammer, with a little care, taking fine increments, can do a very fine job
and a neat one, leaving
no ragged or jagged aspects to the remaining circumphrence from the Lid or
end, to wound the unwary
later, and, is very unlikely to make a 'spark' anyway, but, if one wishes,
one could fill the Drum with Water ( plum full even, ) to be prudent.
Too, it is either ambient warmth of a 'hot' day, or the heat of an
Oxy-Acetylene Cutting Torch or sometimes a welding Torch (or evidently in
one case anyway, a large Electric Grinder) which ( in otherwise "empty" and
scentless Drums or Tanks) liberates
such fumes of potential ignition concern, even when otherwise a Drum or
Barrel or old Tank has no
noticable smell to it.
So, on a cool or cold day, a Cold Chisel, if it does happen to somehow
make a spark ( or rather, it would be the Hammer strikeing the END of the
Cold Chisel from whence a 'spark' m-i-g-h-t occur, ) would be most prudent.
And it takes sloppy or glanceing stikes to get a Spark from the end of a
Cold Chisel, for that matter, while direct or concise blows, will not do it.
Anyway...
Your Car Exhaust idea I think is very nice, and would be easy for anyone to
do,
too...but I would hate to see the end-removeing operative useing whatever
method, get too woosey if
they are breathing it...
Lol...
Best wishes,
Happy Barrels...
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cooper"
> It seems to me that filling a drum with water actually condenses the
> volatile fumes to an even more explosive level above the water line.
>
> IF you simply must cut it, how about taking the whole mess outside so you
> don't kill yourself, or at least don't blow up the building when you do
so,
> and run already-combusted exhaust fumes from a car or truck INTO and OUT
OF
> the drum for a while to empty it of the combustible fumes, and then
> immediately cut it? Of course, you want to keep an air flow so you don't
> gas yourself from the fumes.
>
> Or, better yet, go buy a safe barrel, either a new one or one that hasn't
> had anything combusible in it. The cost of hospitals and funerals are a
lot
> higher than the cost of barrels.
>
> Work safe, live long.
> Joe
Vince Pitelka on sat 21 jan 06
When I worked as a mechanic and welder for the City of Arcata in Northern
California back in the early 70s, we regularly took the tops off 55-gallon
drums so the Parks Department could use them as trash barrels. There is
always a danger if you use a cutting torch. We did it with a cold chisel.
That works great if you use a sharp cold chisel and a heavy hammer, wearing
leather gloves to protect your hands form the vibration. Cut vertically
along the inside edge of the reinforced rim, so you are cutting straight
through the horizontal sheet metal of the top. Keep the chisel in line with
the barrel wall, with the tip angled slightly forwards as you drive it
through the sheet metal, hugging the inside edge of the rim, moving it along
a bit with each impact. This action is very much like a giant can opener.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
John Rodgers on sat 21 jan 06
A further method to reduce flash hazard and explosion is to open the
bung and the vent holes, and pressure wash the insides of the drum with
hot soapy water from q pressure wand at the local car wash. Just be
sure the drum is well drained and it's contents are of a known substance
that can be washed out. The detergent will emulsify most oils, kerosene,
gasoline, and the like and flush them completely. If the vents and bung
are left open, any residual soapy water or plain water should pose no
hazard when cutting the top off - especially if you are using a coal chisel.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
David Woof wrote:
> The only way I'll remove a drum lid is to completely fill the drum with
> water before cutting, sawing, gas or plasma torching, chiseling or
> grinding.
> ANY of the known cutting methods can cause a spark and what ever
> residule fumes (gasses) remain in the drum, or whatever fumes the cutting
> heat generates, these fumes, trapped in that closed space turn the
> drum into
> a bomb waiting for that spark.
>
> While on this subject: the "flick your bic" type butane lighters have
> also
> killed when a welding spark melted thru the plastic body while the
> lighter
> was in someones pocket. (Osha warning).
>
>
> David
> _________________________________
> _________________________________
> David Woof Studio
> Clarkdale, Arizona
> Ph. 928-821-3747 Fax. 866-881-3461
> ________________________________
> ________________________________
> peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at
> everything.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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>
>
2ley on sat 21 jan 06
Well, my hair has gotten a little whiter, now that I read all these
warnings. I pounded the top off of an old, 55 gallon heating oil drum about
4 weeks ago. I was lucky enough to not have any problems, I guess. But
then again, it had been sitting empty and with one of the filling holes open
for at least a year.
Philip
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers"
>A further method to reduce flash hazard and explosion is to open the
> bung and the vent holes, and pressure wash the insides of the drum with
> hot soapy water from q pressure wand at the local car wash. Just be
> sure the drum is well drained and it's contents are of a known substance
> that can be washed out. The detergent will emulsify most oils, kerosene,
> gasoline, and the like and flush them completely. If the vents and bung
> are left open, any residual soapy water or plain water should pose no
> hazard when cutting the top off - especially if you are using a coal
> chisel.
>
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