Wood Jeanne on sun 22 jan 06
Hi Amanda,
Is your customer a Historic re-creation person?
Chargers are often what dinner plates made out of
various mediums (metal, wood, clay)are called. I can't
back up the historic term 'charger' perhaps just
common word usage among re-creation persons.
If so the archives have some great web sources for
Medieval & other historic ceramics.
-Jeanne W.
(I couldn't just type "Recreationist, sounds too much
like modern religious politics ;-)
--- Amanda Stickney
wrote:
---------------------------------
Hi Everyone-
I just got a commission for 20 charger plates.
Pathetic thing is...I hardly know anything about
charger plates! I've been trying to look up
information on them on the net and in my books, but
even I can't find much information there about them.
I've gotten a basic idea about them, but can anyone
give me a brief history of them, and approximately how
big they should be? I mean, it being a commission, it
should be what she wants, 16". But that seems more
like a platter than anything. Info anyone?
Amanda
__________________________________________________
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Amanda Stickney on sun 22 jan 06
Hi Everyone-
I just got a commission for 20 charger plates. Pathetic thing is...I hardly know anything about charger plates! I've been trying to look up information on them on the net and in my books, but even I can't find much information there about them. I've gotten a basic idea about them, but can anyone give me a brief history of them, and approximately how big they should be? I mean, it being a commission, it should be what she wants, 16". But that seems more like a platter than anything. Info anyone?
Amanda
Dannon Rhudy on mon 23 jan 06
Charger plates are the plates that sit beneath the
place settings on a formal table. The charger is
removed when the food is served, generally. They
are generally two or three inches wider all round=20
than dinner plates. If your customer was specific
about what she wants, then that is what she wants.
Sixteen inches would be five inches larger than an
11 inch dinner plate, or about two & a half all round.
Be sure you're getting paid enough.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Donald G. Goldsobel on mon 23 jan 06
Amanda,
Charger plates are generally set under the plate used for eating. The =
plate is an inch or so smaller than the charger. They are usually =
designer elements in table settings and have no real use. They do =
protect the table cloth to some degree, but basically thy just look =
nice. Inquire, what size plate (largest) will sit on the charger and =
what colors and designs will be on the plates. They function as a plate =
for the plate.
Donald
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Amanda Stickney=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 5:53 PM
Subject: Charger Plates
Hi Everyone-
I just got a commission for 20 charger plates. Pathetic thing =
is...I hardly know anything about charger plates! I've been trying to =
look up information on them on the net and in my books, but even I can't =
find much information there about them. I've gotten a basic idea about =
them, but can anyone give me a brief history of them, and approximately =
how big they should be? I mean, it being a commission, it should be =
what she wants, 16". But that seems more like a platter than anything. =
Info anyone?
Amanda
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the =
archives for the list or change your subscription settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/ Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson =
who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
David Gallagher on mon 23 jan 06
In the modern context:
"A charger plate is larger than the dinner plate, yet smaller than a platter. Most commonly used at a formal table, the charger plate is placed at each place setting and generally removed when the main entrée is served. Therefore, all first courses are placed directly on the charger plate."
Breaking it down.... its a soup and salad catcher
Wood Jeanne wrote:
Hi Amanda,
Is your customer a Historic re-creation person?
Chargers are often what dinner plates made out of
various mediums (metal, wood, clay)are called. I can't
back up the historic term 'charger' perhaps just
common word usage among re-creation persons.
If so the archives have some great web sources for
Medieval & other historic ceramics.
-Jeanne W.
(I couldn't just type "Recreationist, sounds too much
like modern religious politics ;-)
--- Amanda Stickney
wrote:
---------------------------------
Hi Everyone-
I just got a commission for 20 charger plates.
Pathetic thing is...I hardly know anything about
charger plates! I've been trying to look up
information on them on the net and in my books, but
even I can't find much information there about them.
I've gotten a basic idea about them, but can anyone
give me a brief history of them, and approximately how
big they should be? I mean, it being a commission, it
should be what she wants, 16". But that seems more
like a platter than anything. Info anyone?
Amanda
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
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Ann Brink on mon 23 jan 06
I have a set of 6- just measured them and they are 13.5" in diam. I wond=
er
if when your customer said 16 inches, they were just sort of estimating,
guessing at the size? 16 inches would be way to big for this purpose.
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA, where it's clear and sunny today, esp. in my
south-facing studio
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "David Gallagher"
> In the modern context:
> "A charger plate is larger than the dinner plate, yet smaller than =
a
platter. Most commonly used at a formal table, the charger plate is place=
d
at each place setting and generally removed when the main entr=E9e is ser=
ved.
Therefore, all first courses are placed directly on the charger plate."
>
> Breaking it down.... its a soup and salad catcher
Rick Hamelin on mon 23 jan 06
Historically, charger either comes from the Anglo-Norman chargeour ("that which loads"), middle English, spelled as chargere or chargeour and in old French chargeoir, chargeor or chargour(utensil to load) from CHARGIER meaning to load and dates in the earliest British printed sources to 1305 where it is only referred to as "a large plate or dish; a platter." The Brits call it now an underplate. Several contemporary sources state that this is large flat dish or plate for carrying a large joint of meat or chicken and that the servant carrying this is also called a charger. The toast "charge your glasses" comes from the early 14th century. BTW, loading your musket or cannon is also stated as charging your musket or cannon.
Most accounts call plates larger than 13 inches a charger and they range to almost 18 inches in diam.
Historical New England pottery records which I have read never mentioned the term and I question if it was used in the Dutch and German colonies. If you have more info, share it with me please.
Rick
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
> Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
> Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it!
>
>
Vince Pitelka on mon 23 jan 06
There have been some interesting definitions of "charger" - diner plates,
larger than dinner places but smaller than a platter. This is all pretty
subjective, since there is such a range of size in dinner plates and
platters. My only reference to "charger" is in museum collections, where
the pieces identified as "chargers" were English plates, and they were very
large - 16" to 20" in diameter. I photographedsome in the Boston MFA
collection - beautiful large serving platters from Bristol and Lambeth -
beautiful overglaze painting in the English version of the Baroque-era
Maiolica/Faience tradition. Can one of our English members give us a
definitive answer? How large is a charger?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on mon 23 jan 06
Wow. There have been such a wide range of definitions, and all sound
equally sound. So, is a charger a dinner plate, or a plate slightly larger
that fits under a dinner plate, or one significantly larger that fits under
a dinner plate, or a big platter for "charging" food onto dinner plates, or
a really huge platter for this purpose? The answer seems to be "yes."
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Kathy McDonald on tue 24 jan 06
I inherited a set of antique Limoges dinnerware that I had not
unpacked since my great aunt's death 10 years ago, I knew that this set
included
both dinner plates and the larger charger plates.
I finally unpacked them the dinner plates are about 11.5 inches
the charger plates about 14.
They were originally from Denmark.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Ann Brink
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:20 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Charger Plates
I have a set of 6- just measured them and they are 13.5" in diam. I wond=
er
if when your customer said 16 inches, they were just sort of estimating,
guessing at the size? 16 inches would be way to big for this purpose.
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA, where it's clear and sunny today, esp. in my
south-facing studio
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Gallagher"
> In the modern context:
> "A charger plate is larger than the dinner plate, yet smaller than =
a
platter. Most commonly used at a formal table, the charger plate is place=
d
at each place setting and generally removed when the main entr=E9e is ser=
ved.
Therefore, all first courses are placed directly on the charger plate."
>
> Breaking it down.... its a soup and salad catcher
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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Snail Scott on tue 24 jan 06
Chargers are tres trendy just now, as are a
number of other things to make table settings
extra-fancy. They are really just extra-large
plates, which generally remain in place through
the start of the meal, or for all of it, when
the regular plate, salad plate, desset plate,
soup bowl, or whatever are swapped out during a
multi-course meal. They aren't intended to hold
food and are often made (or surfaced) in materials
and colors which would not be appropriate for food.
(A popular style presently is a glass charger with
paint and/or gold leaf applied to the reverse.)
There's a lot more room for variation here than
with a regular plate, but I'd still hesitate to
use a potentially toxic glaze on something that
(being ceramic and plate-shaped) might be pressed
into occasional use as an actual plate. Other than
that, just remember that a charger's main job is
to act as a 'frame' for the regular dinnerware,
and to attractively fill the empty placemat or
tablecloth between courses. Some people also
leave them on the table between meals, as decor.
-Snail
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 25 jan 06
M. Webster gives us "A Large Plate for carrying Meat".
R. Fournier in " Illustrated Dictionary of Pottery Form" gives us " From =
Middle English "chargen", meaning "to charge"; i.e., To put a load on. =
This archaic, but splendid name is for a large dish or "a flat =
Platter." etc. etc.
Savage and Newman, "An Illustrated Dictionary of Ceramics" gives "A =
large Platter or Plate, usually circular or oval used for serving meat =
at a table"
Jeremy Haslem, does not in "Medieval Pottery" give any illustrations =
named as Charger but a pot that might be is given on page 37, =
illustration 25.
I suggest one of our London Chums drops into the Guildhall museum or =
Museum of London, London Wall to see if they have anything in their =
collection of early pottery, or the V & A. British museum has a fine =
reputation for early pottery.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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