Kathy McDonald on sun 22 jan 06
Thanks to all who replied both on and off list.....
All of the replies have given me something to ponder
and have reinforced my belief that the prices should probably
remain competitive perhaps not the same, but competitive.
I've added new lines...I've gone to workshops to learn better
brush techniques...I've given an extra 10% off for big orders,
and I've taken on some new galleries in places outside my 50
mile radius. I've even added a cast hand decorated
set of lost(loss)leaders.... something I would never have=20
done 15 yrs ago. The high end pieces still sell very well
but the market for 200$ art pieces is rather narrow in Brandon,
Manitoba Canada. =20
I don't want to use this forum to whine..
that's not the purpose of the post, but rather to ask=20
whether other potters are experiencing similiar market conditions,
or are these unique to my local area? All potters here are
facing the same issue.
One of the replies I recieved off line put it very well..
"I think ceramics is being outsourced" and went on to=20
comment that perhaps the value of handmade is not as much a part
of the culture as it was in the 70's and 80's.
By way of example I will share a short personal anecdote.
My daughter was married last summer...when they announced thier
plans I offerred to make or to purchase a set of handmade dishes
for them. I thought I would give them an opportunity to get some=20
work from another potter if that was the choice. Her reply was very =
pained
...she said..Mom..I love your pottery, but we saw this really neat stuff
at (big box store:NO NAME) and if we register people can get 10% off
and then we can get 8 place settings instead of 4. Then if it gets =
broken we won't feel so bad. I looked at the dishes she was talking =
about,,,they were really lovely..stoneware...well decorated...great =
design..all exactly the same.
And...1/2 the price.
These are the next generation of consumers....when I was her age =
handmade was
IN....
perhaps the tide will turn....
I still want to make pottery,,,done it for 30 years,,,,just haven't had =
to face this kind of challenge yet.
Kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Kathy
McDonald
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:22 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Advice needed: Should I cut my prices???
First, hello again .....I took a few months off Clayart and the net.
I missed you all.
I've been focusing on making pots..lots of pots, ( I know quantity
doesn't always equal quality.) I've been firing about a kiln load a =
week,
(20 cu ft of kiln)........and still keeping my day job 3/4 time. =20
They are not spectacular pots
but they are decent pots.=20
I do a few small craft sales but my major sales
venues are tourist type craft stores and local galleries and in
summer, farmer's markets.
Lately craft store owners are stating that other local potters
have been reducing their basic price on what I call "bread and butter"
items..mugs, casseroles, tpots pate sets etc.
My wholesale prices are very reasonable..ie 6 or 7 bucks for a mug,=20
22 for a small casserole and until recently I've had no trouble
selling them...now it seems the bottom has fallen out of the market.
%The hi- end market is still ok...but there are only so many customers
that will pay 100 plus for a pot and these are normally special orders=20
or projects.
Now is the time for throwing summer orders..normally I would need
to be making about 150 mugs for wholesale..this year I have orders for =
50.
That kinda says it all.
Its always been a goal of mine to have a stock of pots sitting around=20
so that when someone called I could say sure cmon over I got lots.
I have certainly accomplished that but it means about 4500 worth of pots =
are sittin unsold and unseen. Even when I was a full time potter 15
years ago that would never be the case. There was always a show or =
sale.
Both spring shows here have been cancelled.
Store owners and sale organizers are finding it hard to make that bottom =
line.=20
All potters in this area are facing it. Orders are down, more stores =
want lots of=20
stock..but on consignment...or alternatly they want a lower wholesale =
price.
They are also reluctant to try any "new" lines or more interesting pots,
even on consignment. They want "tried and true" and they want to set it
up so it looks like there's a lot of it (hmmm big box marketing??)
Some potters have cut prices, they are getting the orders. =
sooooooooo.....
Is it better to cut prices a bit...work harder to produce more,=20
and get your stuff out there to compete in the market, or hold on=20
and hope that time will level the playing field?
I know we've discussed the looking for other markets issue...but for me, =
my market
has to be local for the next few years at least. There are really not =
many
"art type galleries....mostly small craft shops that are hanging in by a =
thread.
I've been potting for about 30 years now and have never faced this =
dilemma,
especially during a time when frieght, materials, and fuel costs are =
rising=20
so dramatically.
I've also never had to actively try to get shops to take my stuff,,,they =
normally
came to me wanting more.
So...times are tight here on the prairies...I am sincerely interested in =
hearing
anyone's take on the dilemma.
Email me privately...or post to the list, whatever is your preference. =
Thanks!
Kathy McDonald
If I cut prices on the "basics"
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_________________________________________________________________________=
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Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
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Elizabeth Priddy on sun 22 jan 06
I went to a big box store over the weekend and looked
around. There in the aisle, in neat rows of fifty or so,
pots with beautiful glazes and guaranteed for outdoor
use or indoor decoration. Shapes were lovely, drippy
iron red and blue colors. i turned them over and there
it was:
$4.95
I know, I know, hand made is better. But to whom?
And somebody did make them by hand. I would
gladly have any of those pots. And I can imagine some
person wherever they were made with a relatively good
job, happily making pots all day, not hunkered over a
machine in a sweatshop, but working. just like I did
when I threw production. It was a bit of a grind, but I
loved doing that instead of anything else I was qualified
for at the time.
Maybe it is really just being outsourced. We just
have to come up with a better business model.
Sheeesh.
E
Kathy McDonald wrote:
...
One of the replies I recieved off line put it very well..
"I think ceramics is being outsourced" and went on to
comment that perhaps the value of handmade is not as much a part
of the culture as it was in the 70's and 80's.
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
John Rodgers on mon 23 jan 06
Steve and All,
I could sense that I was working myself to death on some items and not
so on others but had a bit of difficulty pinning down the exact way the
money way flowing. I got out my trusty spreadsheet, and did a
"percentage contribution" analysis on my stuff. I plugged in 3 years
worth of sales, hit the button and got calculations that showed how much
each item in my line brought in in comparison to the total of sales. It
became clear real quick that I had some serious losers in the mix. I got
rid of most of those. There were a couple that I kept as "loss leaders"
because they were effective in that regard, there were some on the
margin that I simply had to decide whether or not they were worth
keeping. And then there were the money makers. One thing that I looked
at closely was total dollars vs quantity sold. If I sold three of item X
for a total of $450, and I sold 50 of item Y to get $450, I had to look
hard at how much effort and cost went into making those 50 Y items vs
making the 3 X items. This forces you to take a close look at how the
80-20 rule is working for you. Bread and butter stuff usually falls
under the rule big time, and it is a place where you can lose your butt
inf you are not careful. Reason being the narrow margin on such items.
Another factor that adds in to the picture is not in the numbers but is
in marketing psychology. I find that people may like an item, want to
buy it, but if they can feel a connection with the artist the sale will
go down much easier and quicker. People like to take home something of
the artist with their purchase. So it becomes important to have some
type of info card, sheet, tag something - that the buyer can have to go
along with the item. If you have a good story to tell, personal interest
thing, or what have you, more's the better.
For the person making mugs - look at the margin, then look at what
percentage contribution is made by that item. If it is not making you
money, get rid of it.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
steve graber wrote:
>i suffer from "analysis paralysis" and did a big spreadsheet one day of all the things i can make in clay. i wanted to know the break even price with these various products. i had columns for amount of clay used, amount of glaze, time to make each, trim, accents, waxing, % scrap likely, costs of materials, lot time spent on firing, maintenance, etc.
>
> i had the classic learning curve included to help indicate a day's output.... i used the amount of money i wanted to make, identified the days i wouldn't want to work (2 days a week, vacation, hollidays, sick days, etc).
>
> from one v the other i was able to identify the output per day of each product. from that the dollars per product selling price to equal what i said i wanted to make in cash a year. from THAT i compared to the likely selling price of what i make & the quality of what i make.
>
> good info! i just don't make mugs good enough to sell for $14 each, even IF i could sell a day's output of mugs! same with small bowls. the public just doesn't see the value . and my quality isn't good enough for high dollar - small items.
>
> point is that spreadsheet helped identify products i SHOULD sell v those i shouldn't bother selling. just because i can make it doesn't mean i should expect to sell it.
>
> this was a useful task - filling out a giant spreadsheet of stuff. from that sheet i can see products worth bothering with - LARGE bowls, LARGE vases, and some no brainer trinket pieces i can do in my sleep.
>
> this is a task most everyone should do in some maner once a year, once every few years, etc.
>
> i sell faces at a local consignment shop. pottery 101 type faces. i slap them out on styrofoam wig heads & glue strings to the back of the eye balls. 3 for $20 & i get enough each year to support my clay habit. LARGE vases & LARGE bowls as well when the wife will actually part with them...
>
> here's a new product i'm messing with: have at it!
>
> everyone knows the basic chip & dipper bowl. and they never fit in the cabinets... the dipper portion is usually not balanced in size with the chip size - you run out of one or the other, never in unison.
>
> BUT make a chip & dip bowl BIG so the inner "dip" bowl is large enough to be a wine cooler. ~ or that LARGE inner bowl could be filled with potatoe salad, and the "chip" bowl could hold ice. this would be a "refridgerator bowl".
>
> make a second chip-dip BIG bowl that fits into the 1st like a weird lid. sell as a set. at least there will be TWO sold at a time & TWO weird bowls fitting in the canbinet then just one classic chip-dip that nothing seems to sit on right..... could be a $100 set! it doesn't take too long to make these 4 bowls esentually.
>
> a friend asked me to make something like this. he & his wife wanted a wine cooler bucket, where the stupid ice doesn't interfer with the wine bottle when you're trying to put the bottle back in the bucket. i'd have ice in the big bowl, and some amount of water (which WILL get ice cold) in the inner wine cooler bucket.
>
> there's more ideas on my list... just not much time with a regular day job...
>
> see ya
>
> steve
>
>
>
>
>Elizabeth Priddy wrote: I went to a big box store over the weekend and looked
>around. There in the aisle, in neat rows of fifty or so,
>pots with beautiful glazes and guaranteed for outdoor
>use or indoor decoration. Shapes were lovely, drippy
>iron red and blue colors. i turned them over and there
>it was:
>
>$4.95
>
>I know, I know, hand made is better. But to whom?
>And somebody did make them by hand. I would
>gladly have any of those pots. And I can imagine some
>person wherever they were made with a relatively good
>job, happily making pots all day, not hunkered over a
>machine in a sweatshop, but working. just like I did
>when I threw production. It was a bit of a grind, but I
>loved doing that instead of anything else I was qualified
>for at the time.
>
>Maybe it is really just being outsourced. We just
>have to come up with a better business model.
>
>Sheeesh.
>
>E
>
>Kathy McDonald
>wrote:
>...
>
>One of the replies I recieved off line put it very well..
>"I think ceramics is being outsourced" and went on to
>comment that perhaps the value of handmade is not as much a part
>of the culture as it was in the 70's and 80's.
>
>
>
>Elizabeth Priddy
>
>Beaufort, NC - USA
>http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
>---------------------------------
>
>What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
Lee Love on mon 23 jan 06
On 2006/01/22 23:08:37, potter@westman.wave.ca wrote:
> I offerred to make or to purchase a set of handmade dishes
Well, you know... I don't know if plates are the best place for
handmade to compete with commercial ceramics. 3-D forms, like
bowls, vases, mugs, and jars are where you can see the advantages of
handmade where "feeling" is concerned.
The Tsukamoto factory here makes wonderful jiggered
plates. Yes, they are jiggered, but they are decorated nicely. I
always measure my plates against theirs. They charge about $7.00 for a
dinner plate. I have to offer something "extra" for the big difference
in price.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.."
--Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad (1869)
John Rodgers on mon 23 jan 06
Lee,
On plates I decorate the rims with somthing that is of interest to the
local culture. This makes the plates into something the public cannot
get anywhere except through me. This seems to work well for me. Were I
to move to another location in the country, I would again find something
of local interest to deorate with.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Lee Love wrote:
> On 2006/01/22 23:08:37, potter@westman.wave.ca wrote:
>
>> I offerred to make or to purchase a set of handmade dishes
>
>
>
> Well, you know... I don't know if plates are the best place for
> handmade to compete with commercial ceramics. 3-D forms, like
> bowls, vases, mugs, and jars are where you can see the advantages of
> handmade where "feeling" is concerned.
>
> The Tsukamoto factory here makes wonderful jiggered
> plates. Yes, they are jiggered, but they are decorated nicely. I
> always measure my plates against theirs. They charge about $7.00 for a
> dinner plate. I have to offer something "extra" for the big difference
> in price.
>
>
> --
> Lee Love
> in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
> http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
>
> "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.."
> --Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad (1869)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
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