boobyagga@juno.com on tue 24 jan 06
yeah i was waiting for some explenations too but none really ever came..=
.
im not sure if it was off or on the list that someone replied saying tha=
t vinegar is known to increase the aging process of clay. =
i also contacted my older brother who is a chemist and he suggested addi=
ng about a capful of ammonia to the mix. creates a better acid and will =
further speed up the process. ammonia and vinegar together make up the b=
ase ingredients of urine without the gross bodily waste thrown in. makes=
sense as the old japanese potters would pee in their clay and let it fe=
ster before using. =
as for ill side effects in firing and such. i have not found any at all.=
ive been watching closely and the pots fire like normal and i have had =
nothing but success. both vinegar and ammonia are organic matter and bur=
n out at relatively low temperatures. so as long as you bisque at a dece=
nt temperature i highly doubt there is any left in there.
now im going to go learn how to throw using different fingers seeing as =
i took the skin off of my right hand index finger on a hot new kiln yest=
erday. i guess thats what you get when you are in a big hurry and are un=
familiar with the new equiptment. =
and i would still like some confirmation from the list on this vinegar t=
hing. my brother is smart and reliable...but not a potter in the least. =
=
thanks guys.
jason
Marcia Selsor on tue 24 jan 06
I tried the vinegar in my throwong water for Mile High's Aspen ^6
porcelain. It seem to throw nicely. This clay had been drying my
hands severely and with the vinegar, I didn't notice any problem. I
liked the slurry in the slip bucket so much, I made a colored slip
out of it.
Not any earth shattering revelations, but maybe it did make things
flow better.
Marcia Selsor in Montana
On Jan 24, 2006, at 8:16 PM, boobyagga@juno.com wrote:
> yeah i was waiting for some explenations too but none really ever
> came...
> im not sure if it was off or on the list that someone replied
> saying that vinegar is known to increase the aging process of clay.
> i also contacted my older brother who is a chemist and he suggested
> adding about a capful of ammonia to the mix. creates a better acid
> and will further speed up the process. ammonia and vinegar together
> make up the base ingredients of urine without the gross bodily
> waste thrown in. makes sense as the old japanese potters would pee
> in their clay and let it fester before using.
> as for ill side effects in firing and such. i have not found any at
> all. ive been watching closely and the pots fire like normal and i
> have had nothing but success. both vinegar and ammonia are organic
> matter and burn out at relatively low temperatures. so as long as
> you bisque at a decent temperature i highly doubt there is any left
> in there.
> now im going to go learn how to throw using different fingers
> seeing as i took the skin off of my right hand index finger on a
> hot new kiln yesterday. i guess thats what you get when you are in
> a big hurry and are unfamiliar with the new equiptment.
> and i would still like some confirmation from the list on this
> vinegar thing. my brother is smart and reliable...but not a potter
> in the least.
> thanks guys.
> jason
>
> __
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 24 jan 06
I also tried the vinegar in my SI bucket. There is a definite change.=20
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Marcia =
Selsor
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:32 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: vinegar and a discrovery!
I tried the vinegar in my throwong water for Mile High's Aspen ^6
porcelain. It seem to throw nicely. This clay had been drying my
hands severely and with the vinegar, I didn't notice any problem. I
liked the slurry in the slip bucket so much, I made a colored slip
out of it.
Not any earth shattering revelations, but maybe it did make things
flow better.
Marcia Selsor in Montana
On Jan 24, 2006, at 8:16 PM, boobyagga@juno.com wrote:
> yeah i was waiting for some explenations too but none really ever
> came...
> im not sure if it was off or on the list that someone replied
> saying that vinegar is known to increase the aging process of clay.
> i also contacted my older brother who is a chemist and he suggested
> adding about a capful of ammonia to the mix. creates a better acid
> and will further speed up the process. ammonia and vinegar together
> make up the base ingredients of urine without the gross bodily
> waste thrown in. makes sense as the old japanese potters would pee
> in their clay and let it fester before using.
> as for ill side effects in firing and such. i have not found any at
> all. ive been watching closely and the pots fire like normal and i
> have had nothing but success. both vinegar and ammonia are organic
> matter and burn out at relatively low temperatures. so as long as
> you bisque at a decent temperature i highly doubt there is any left
> in there.
> now im going to go learn how to throw using different fingers
> seeing as i took the skin off of my right hand index finger on a
> hot new kiln yesterday. i guess thats what you get when you are in
> a big hurry and are unfamiliar with the new equiptment.
> and i would still like some confirmation from the list on this
> vinegar thing. my brother is smart and reliable...but not a potter
> in the least.
> thanks guys.
> jason
>
> __
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 25 jan 06
Dear Jason,
All you get if you add a solution of Ammonia (Ammonium Hydroxide) to =
Vinegar (Acetic Acid) is Ammonium Acetate and organic acid. Because it =
has nitrogen in its composition it is a good fertilizer and helps the =
bugs in clay to grow, until it is exhausted.
If you are going to treat this as a scientific project you will have to =
keep good records, weights, volumes and measures and things like that. I =
think it is a situation where Folk Lore Rules. Accept that when you do =
some things you get good results, when you do others you don't.
And you have to define things, like the meaning of "Ageing Clay".
Best regards.
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
boobyagga@juno.com on thu 26 jan 06
ivor,
yeah i was never sure what "ageing clay" was either. just one of those t=
erms ive heard alot and grown to accept. that along with alowing it to "=
fester" and other stuch things. ive heard before that the development of=
certain bacteria or molds in clay helps break down some of the organic =
matter in clay making it better suited for throwing. dont know...never t=
ested or anthing like that. lately i have absolutely no time for doing a=
nything closely resembling a test. you could always test that and tell m=
e if you wanted ;-). no but yes i do know that this would stimulate gros=
s growth...thats why usually when i creat some creation like this i add =
a small ammount of hydrogen peroxide or oxy clean. both work wonderfully=
in destroying mold growth...but then again...if "ageing" is caused by b=
acteria and the breaking down of organic material...that would defeat th=
e purpose of adding it in the first place....hmmm...
oh well...for another day. this week proves to be insanely busy....
thanks for the reply
jason
Stephen Mills on fri 27 jan 06
Vinegar is certainly pretty amazing stuff. I make up my own clay body in
slip form, and add vinegar to it as an aid to souring (it speeds up the
growth of that wonderful primeval slime that gives us real plasticity),
and it certainly works on that score. Also if you pull handles that have
a tendency to crack, a wipe down the back of the handle with some
vinegar on a brush stops the cracking problem and seems to help to
handle stay put during the drying process.
As I have said in the past I find organic cider vinegar the best, and
the way I get it is to buy a gallon of very cheap cider, and leave the
lid off for a week!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Antoinette Badenhorst writes
>I also tried the vinegar in my SI bucket. There is a definite change.=3D2=
>0
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Marcia =3D
>Selsor
>
>I tried the vinegar in my throwong water for Mile High's Aspen ^6
>porcelain. It seem to throw nicely. This clay had been drying my
>hands severely and with the vinegar, I didn't notice any problem. I
>liked the slurry in the slip bucket so much, I made a colored slip
>out of it.
>On Jan 24, 2006, at 8:16 PM, boobyagga@juno.com wrote:
>
>> yeah i was waiting for some explenations too but none really ever
>> came...
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 28 jan 06
Dear Stephen Mills,=20
Following your observation perhaps you should send this information to =
Carol Tripp and the Managing Director of PotClays.
<in slip form, and add vinegar to it as an aid to souring (it speeds up =
the growth of that wonderful primeval slime that gives us real =
plasticity), and it certainly works on that score. >>
So, is Plasticity the slipperiness due to products of metabolism by a =
bacteria which digests Acetic acid or a build up of an organism that has =
a slippery epidermis which enables clay particles slide past each other?
I would just ask one question. What is the nature of the water you use =
in preparing your clay slurry?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Stephen Mills on mon 30 jan 06
In message , Ivor and Olive Lewis writes
>Dear Stephen Mills,=3D20
>
>So, is Plasticity the slipperiness due to products of metabolism by a =3D
>bacteria which digests Acetic acid or a build up of an organism that has =
>=3D
>a slippery epidermis which enables clay particles slide past each other?
Dear Ivor,
I wouldn't know for certain, but the clay I wedge up after it comes out
of my drying rig is almost black in the middle and smells nicely *ripe*
(the reason I use cider vinegar not urine), despite it's ultimately
firing white.
>
> I would just ask one question. What is the nature of the water you use =3D
>in preparing your clay slurry?
>
My workshop is not on the main water supply, so I use rainwater (of
which we have plenty here) which I collect off the roof.
Cheers
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
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