Richard White on thu 2 feb 06
Fred Olson's book, "The Kiln Book," devotes a page to IFB and its ratings.
There is an obvious relationship between the brick number and it's
temperature rating - #20 is rated for 2000F, #23 is for 2300F, #33 is 3300F,
etc. However, the temperature rating is not the melting point, but rather it
is the highest temperature at which the brick can be expected to reasonably
perform its intended refractory, structural, and insulating functions over
the long term without falling apart (which it will do before it melts).
Thus, a #23 brick with a duty temperature of 2300F could function in a cold
spot of a cone 10 kiln, but it should not be used where the temperatures
might regularly or intermittently exceed cone 10 - which would likely happen
from time to time even when intending just cone 10. Instead, you'd limit
that kiln to mid-fire work, or build it with #25 or #26 so you'd have some
head room to safely exceed cone 10 if that happened. Olson suggests #28 for
fireboxes and floors, and #30 for cone 15.
HTH
dw
Linda Ferzoco on thu 2 feb 06
Dear Ivor Lewis,
As confirmation of this information I submit again this link, which I posted last week on Clayart:
http://www.armilcfs.com/pages/firebrick.htm?gclid=CPGK4auZ84ICFQtpGAodd2SBog
This manufacturer's table seems to confirm Steven's assertion.
Cheers, Linda Ferzoco
Pacifica, California
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote: Dear Stephen Mills,
That is a most interesting piece of information;
<>
If it is so, then Robert Fournier's example of an American high duty fireclay with a Pyrometric Cone Equivalent of 33 would be graded as 3300 º F. This would be nonsense since Fournier says that material melts at 1730º C, which converts to 3146º F. (See Fournier, Revised Edition, p 183.
Would it still be possible to get a Defining Reference for your knowledge?. Who invented that test ? Is it a standard from the British Ceramic Research Group or the American Ceramic Society? How high does the K xx rise? Is it an arbitrary or conventional scale?
Appendix 14 in Pioneer Pottery gives the melting points of both Orton and Seger Cones from 022 up to 17 (Orton) and 42 (Seger)
Thanks for joining in the discussion.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 2 feb 06
Dear Stephen Mills,=20
That is a most interesting piece of information;
<Refractory Materials supplier that the brick number indicated the =
maximum temperature the brick could withstand for 24 hours continuously =
in degrees Fahrenheit. Thus K23 reads as 2300=BA F and so on.>>
If it is so, then Robert Fournier's example of an American high duty =
fireclay with a Pyrometric Cone Equivalent of 33 would be graded as 3300 =
=BA F. This would be nonsense since Fournier says that material melts at =
1730=BA C, which converts to 3146=BA F. (See Fournier, Revised Edition, =
p 183.
Would it still be possible to get a Defining Reference for your =
knowledge?. Who invented that test ? Is it a standard from the British =
Ceramic Research Group or the American Ceramic Society? How high does =
the K xx rise? Is it an arbitrary or conventional scale?
Appendix 14 in Pioneer Pottery gives the melting points of both Orton =
and Seger Cones from 022 up to 17 (Orton) and 42 (Seger)
Thanks for joining in the discussion.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
John Britt on thu 2 feb 06
Ivor,
This does not follow.
"If it is so, then Robert Fournier's example of an American high duty
fireclay with a Pyrometric Cone Equivalent of 33 would be graded as 3300 =BA=
F. This would be nonsense since Fournier says that material melts at 1730=BA=
C, which converts to 3146=BA F. (See Fournier, Revised Edition, p 183. "
If you want to know about bricks you should talk to someone in the brick
industry. I would start with Jim Wunch:
http://www.larkinfurnace.com/
I am sure he will set you straight, or arched depending on the brick.
Hope it helps.
John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 3 feb 06
Dear Paul Herman,=20
<think you are trying to make a connection where there is none.>>
If that is the case, I can accept it as being a Convention.
Thank you for your input.
Best regards,
Ivor
Vince Pitelka on fri 3 feb 06
Stephen Mills wrote:
<Refractory Materials supplier that the brick number indicated the maximu=
m=20
temperature the brick could withstand for 24 hours continuously in degree=
s=20
Fahrenheit. Thus K23 reads as 2300=BA F and so on.>>
Ivor replied:
"If it is so, then Robert Fournier's example of an American high duty=20
fireclay with a Pyrometric Cone Equivalent of 33 would be graded as 3300 =
=BA=20
F. This would be nonsense since Fournier says that material melts at 1730=
=BA=20
C, which converts to 3146=BA F. (See Fournier, Revised Edition, p 183.
Would it still be possible to get a Defining Reference for your knowledge=
?.=20
Who invented that test ? Is it a standard from the British Ceramic Resear=
ch=20
Group or the American Ceramic Society? How high does the K xx rise? Is it=
an=20
arbitrary or conventional scale?"
Ivor -
There seems to be some basic misunderstanding here. The "K" in the "K23"=
=20
reference in IFB is just a manufacturer's addition preceeding the=20
temperature rating of the IFB. APGreen Refractories used to refer to the=
ir=20
IFB as G23, G26, etc. I do not understand why you keep referring to=20
pyrometric cones, and your paragraph above makes no sense at all, because=
=20
Stephen Mills just told you that "K23" simply refers to the expected hotf=
ace=20
performance of the brick. There's no connection to cone numbers at all.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
=20
Stephen Mills on sat 4 feb 06
Dear Ivor Lewis,
All the IFBs we supplied were/are made/marketed by Thermal Ceramics. The
prefix letters for this company are either TC or JM (not K) when
referring to brick, followed by two digits indicating the first two
numbers of the brick's temperature rating. For example, as I said
before, JM23 equals 2300F (1260C), although they are colloquially called
K23.
If you go to:
select -Insulating Firebrick- you will get a PDF file with all the data
on each grade of brick available to us in the UK.
As I said in my previous post, the classification as quoted to me by my
distributor was 24 hours continuous, however Thermal Ceramics do include
the following caveat on the above data sheets:
application. In case of doubt, refer to your local Thermal
Ceramics distributor for advice.>
For an American reference with a different company go to:
they use an identical temperature/number reference.
Best regards
Steve Mills
In message , Ivor and Olive Lewis writes
>Dear Stephen Mills,=3D20
>
>That is a most interesting piece of information;
>
><>Refractory Materials supplier that the brick number indicated the =3D
>maximum temperature the brick could withstand for 24 hours continuously =3D
>in degrees Fahrenheit. Thus K23 reads as 2300=3DBA F and so on.>>
>
>If it is so, then Robert Fournier's example of an American high duty =3D
>fireclay with a Pyrometric Cone Equivalent of 33 would be graded as 3300 =
>=3D
>=3DBA F. This would be nonsense since Fournier says that material melts a=
>t =3D
>1730=3DBA C, which converts to 3146=3DBA F. (See Fournier, Revised Editio=
>n, =3D
>p 183.
>
>Would it still be possible to get a Defining Reference for your =3D
>knowledge?. Who invented that test ? Is it a standard from the British =3D
>Ceramic Research Group or the American Ceramic Society? How high does =3D
>the K xx rise? Is it an arbitrary or conventional scale?
>
>Appendix 14 in Pioneer Pottery gives the melting points of both Orton =3D
>and Seger Cones from 022 up to 17 (Orton) and 42 (Seger)
>
>Thanks for joining in the discussion.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ivor Lewis.
>Redhill,
>South Australia.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 4 feb 06
Dear Richard White,=20
Interesting information. Data on the facing page makes none sense out of =
the ideas put forward by Peter Meanly for No 28 bricks, with less than =
60% Alumina and his summation of coatings for the interior of a salt =
glaze kiln..
It would be nice to have a run down of the analyses of the full range, =
then we could really see if there is any correlation with the =
compositions of Pyrometric Cones. But for the time being I an quite =
prepared to accept that it is a convenient scale.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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