Dave Finkelnburg on sat 18 feb 06
Hi all!
I have followed the discussion Ivor started re: thumb stops. He didn't define or describe just what he meant, as I recall, but I interpreted his question to refer to a bit of clay on top of a handle at the wall of a mug or cup. That is not the same as a bit of clay atop a handle and out away from the mug wall about as far as the handle projects. To me the latter may have some leverage function, the former is more decorative. I am puzzled, though, as to who made some folks the police of either element. Too much art, too many designs, are externally influenced. Make what you like! For function ware use will tell you whether it works.
I do have a somewhat related teapot question, though. Is it just me, or is it as important as I feel it is to have the bottom of the teapot spout at least as high as the bottom of the teapot lid? I figure that keeps one from filling the teapot while water runs out the spout. Yes, I did work this out the hard way...when my first teapot spout was lower...and I was pouring water into it from the tea kettle...until I was gently informed I was, "...getting the table linen rather damp!" To me this is a question of function that creates a real constraint on design. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
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W J Seidl on sun 19 feb 06
Dave:
I'm not sure that constitutes a "constraint on design". Given that=20
physics determined (for example) where the lower lip of the spout has to =
be
(water seeking its own level), one could design a straightforward, no
nonsense spout, or one could make it loop-de-loop, or wiggle back and =
forth,
etc. It doesn't matter what path the spout takes, how decorative it is =
or
what design elements you incorporate; as long as it ends up in the same
location and pays heed to the physical laws you are trying to control, =
the
end result is the same...the teapot holds heated liquid, pours, and =
doesn't
get the linens damp while you fill it.
Given that there are certain things we must avoid for an item to be
functional, (such as not piercing the body of the teapot as a design
element, or the use of certain non-safe glazes on ware meant for food) =
once
the parameters of function has been established, design can be given a
pretty free rein.
Is paying attention to physical law and parameters of function a =
constraint?
All the Best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dave
Finkelnburg
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:40 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Thumbstops/rests, teapot spout height question
Hi all!
I have followed the discussion Ivor started re: thumb stops. He
didn't define or describe just what he meant, as I recall, but I =
interpreted
his question to refer to a bit of clay on top of a handle at the wall of =
a
mug or cup. That is not the same as a bit of clay atop a handle and out
away from the mug wall about as far as the handle projects. To me the
latter may have some leverage function, the former is more decorative. =
I am
puzzled, though, as to who made some folks the police of either element.
Too much art, too many designs, are externally influenced. Make what =
you
like! For function ware use will tell you whether it works.
I do have a somewhat related teapot question, though. Is it =
just
me, or is it as important as I feel it is to have the bottom of the =
teapot
spout at least as high as the bottom of the teapot lid? I figure that =
keeps
one from filling the teapot while water runs out the spout. Yes, I did =
work
this out the hard way...when my first teapot spout was lower...and I was
pouring water into it from the tea kettle...until I was gently informed =
I
was, "...getting the table linen rather damp!" To me this is a question =
of
function that creates a real constraint on design. I'd appreciate your
thoughts.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
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Paul Herman on sun 19 feb 06
Hi Dave,
Greetings from down Doyle way.
About teapot spouts.... Yes they should be high enough that you can
fill your pot. The ones with the low hanging spouts I call "automatic
teapots". You fill them halfway, and they automatically dispense the
rest of the tea onto your tabletop. Real cute. I'm rather amused by
that, and suspect the potters who make them don't actually use
teapots. Some research and development is needed by those potters.
It does constrain the design, but in a good way. Teapots that you can
fill are better looking. For me, the spout doesn't go higher than
the lip either, as I trim them with the spouts and handles already
attached.
Here's to sound design,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Feb 18, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Dave Finkelnburg wrote:
> I do have a somewhat related teapot question, though. Is it
> just me, or is it as important as I feel it is to have the bottom
> of the teapot spout at least as high as the bottom of the teapot
> lid? I figure that keeps one from filling the teapot while water
> runs out the spout. Yes, I did work this out the hard way...when
> my first teapot spout was lower...and I was pouring water into it
> from the tea kettle...until I was gently informed I was,
> "...getting the table linen rather damp!" To me this is a question
> of function that creates a real constraint on design. I'd
> appreciate your thoughts.
> Good potting!
> Dave Finkelnburg
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 19 feb 06
Dave Finkelnburg wrote:
1) - "I am puzzled, though, as to who made some folks the police of either
element. Too much art, too many designs, are externally influenced. Make
what you like! For function ware use will tell you whether it works."
2) - "I do have a somewhat related teapot question, though. Is it just me,
or is it as important as I feel it is to have the bottom of the teapot spout
at least as high as the bottom of the teapot lid? I figure that keeps one
from filling the teapot while water runs out the spout."
Dear Dave -
1) - I don't recall anyone acting like "police" in this regard. We were
simply having a dialogue as to whether thumb stops are really an advantage.
I said I didn't like them, because I have never seen one that I felt was a
comfortable, functional addition to a handle. Then I saw the picture of the
"thumb stop" on a mug made by Don Goodrich's friend Susan Minyard, and now I
see that it is possible to make a thumb stop that does in fact serve both
aesthetics and utility.
2) - I have quite a few nice teapots in my collection, and on every one of
them the tip of the spout is level with or above the lid. It simply makes
no sense to end the spout below the level of the lid, for the reasons you
explain. I frequently encounter this when my students make teapots, and
there is always that moment of realization when they come to understand the
problem. I consider myself very fortunate to have been born with a sense of
spatial logic that generally serves me well when designing and placing the
interrelated parts of a pot or a machine. So much of pottery design has to
do with ergonomics - the utilitarian performance of the vessel in terms of
practicality, efficiency, and comfort. Every utilitarian pot can be
examined in terms of the interrelated qualities of aesthetic and utility, as
manifest in the essential relationship or balance between the various parts
including foot, spout, handle, lid, rim, shoulder, flange, knob, base, etc.
How does each part serve the other parts and the overall utility and
aesthetic of the pot?
Every time I observe and handle another pot, and every time I watch a potter
making pots, I try to think about these things. How has each potter solved
these challenges, attaining a level of aesthetic and utilitarian balance,
making all of the parts function in symphony? When they do, it's really a
fine pot.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
William & Susan Schran User on sun 19 feb 06
On 2/18/06 11:39 PM, "Dave Finkelnburg" wrote:
> I do have a somewhat related teapot question, though. Is it just me,
> or is it as important as I feel it is to have the bottom of the teapot spout
> at least as high as the bottom of the teapot lid?
The bottom edge of the pouring end must be at least as high as the level of
water/tea that can be held in the teapot. This could be as far as the lid
flange fits into the teapot body.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 20 feb 06
Dear Dave Finkelnburg,
Good to see you making a contribution again.Welcome back.
I referenced the cover illustration of CM Feb 2006 as an illustration of =
what I was on about. Really asking what are the design parameters for =
this design element
Now about teapot spouts.
My own definition of the placement is that the lip of the spout, the rim =
over which tea passes as it emerges, should be no lower, but perhaps =
slightly higher, that the level of the gallery on which the lid sits. =
Much easier to illustrate as a sketch than to describe in words. Oh yes, =
I like that to be as sharp as a razor though this is not necessary. A =
slight radius at the lip is less prone to chipping and works well =
provided there is no ridge to induce turbulence in the flow.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Dave Finkelnburg on mon 20 feb 06
Vince,
Thanks for your note!
I am glad you mentioned that you found an addition to a handle that you feel has some utility and aesthetic appeal. Don Goodrich's photos are illuminating! Like I mentioned, I think Ivor Lewis started this discussion referring to an addition up against the wall of the mug...something different than Don showed. In either place, an addition to the handle can be a liability...if poorly done... I agree, any design choice needs to contribute to the finished work in a positive way.
I am very disappointed we won't be able to visit in person in Portland...perhaps argue the finer points of pot design over a beer...but mosly I'm disappointed because it also means you are still struggling with your healing process. Best wishes for your continued, speedy recovery!
Dave Finkelnburg
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