Frank Colson on mon 6 mar 06
Antoinette- Your blower is not forceful enough. It needs to be such that
it will nearly blow the flame off when you introduce fuel! This will
eliminate virtually all the problems you describe. Be certain that the
burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside" the
kiln. For details of burner operation of this kind, see the system
which ROCKY RAKU uses at www.R2D2u.com
Frank Colson
www.R2D2u.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antoinette Badenhorst"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Analyzing this raku kiln.
Dear Clayarters, I've done my last successful raku firing 9 years ago in SA.
I had a successful kiln made of an oil drum lined with about 3cm (close to
an inch) kaowool, regular red bricks on the bottom ( we called them
mamparas), a burner with a narrow head and an old vacuum cleaner that was
reversed to blow instead of suck. The drum was cut in half with a square cut
out of the cut rim to allow the heat into the kiln and a port at the top, to
observe the kiln inside and create just enough of a draft to keep the flame
going. I had a shelf lifted one brick high off the floor of the kiln.
This weekend I've tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not say where)
for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with about ¼
inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 x2.5
inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close the
holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner (looked
like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet and
then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted on
probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the flame. I
used a 100lb gas cylinder.
The result was disappointing. Firstly I think the kiln will be very unsafe
if a sudden wind comes up. It is too lightweight. Secondly
I think there was too much of a draft, since the flames went everywhere
(also unsafe). Even after I used sand to seal off the bottom, the flames
still went everywhere, through the ports, through the seams between the lid
and the sides. After 2 efforts to reach temperature (one 1.5 our period and
then after adjusting some things, another 45 minute period) I realized that
I will not be able to reach temperature in this kiln. We ended up with some
melting on the inside of 2 pieces, but the rest was just one big black smoke
mess.
In my view this is a poorly designed kiln and I will state that in my report
unless some of you clayarters will tell me what I've done wrong. I taught
raku as an extended experience to my students in South Africa and had very
successful times, but it was 9 years ago and I might be forgetting some
details here. Lynn Barnwell, if I left out any details on the kiln, please
me fill in.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact me
for information.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Lynn Barnwell on mon 6 mar 06
Dear clayarters, in response to Antoinette's description
of the raku kiln we were working with... "I am afraid of
GAS" so I was nervous about all the flames coming out
everywhere. The seam where the kaowool met was not
overlapped and you could see into the kiln from that point. This was only
my second time trying to fire raku and was disappointed
that this was a top hat fiber kiln that is on the market.
Would another layer of fiber blanket wrapped around the
outside of the wire frame overlapping at a different point
than the first layer help the kiln? Also, why 3 ports on
the front? There was not a flue opening on the top, is
this necessary?
My first experience was great but this one had me rattled.
We were trying this kiln out before doing it with older
children. I think there were too many safety issues to
let any other than experienced pyromaniacs around the kiln.
Antoinette did not pick out this kiln, the school had
already purchased it and asked her to test it for them.
Anyone have a better solution? Frank Colson - I bought
your plans for the Rocky Raku a couple of years ago, guess
I need to find them and try to build it.
Lynn Barnwell
Hinkle Creek Pottery
Corinth, MS
Antoinette Badenhorst on mon 6 mar 06
Dear Clayarters, I=92ve done my last successful raku firing 9 years ago =
in SA.
I had a successful kiln made of an oil drum lined with about 3cm (close =
to
an inch) kaowool, regular red bricks on the bottom ( we called them
mamparas), a burner with a narrow head and an old vacuum cleaner that =
was
reversed to blow instead of suck. The drum was cut in half with a square =
cut
out of the cut rim to allow the heat into the kiln and a port at the =
top, to
observe the kiln inside and create just enough of a draft to keep the =
flame
going. I had a shelf lifted one brick high off the floor of the kiln.
This weekend I=92ve tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not say =
where)
for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with =
about =BC
inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 =
x2.5
inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close the
holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner =
(looked
like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet =
and
then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted =
on
probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the =
flame. I
used a 100lb gas cylinder.
The result was disappointing. Firstly I think the kiln will be very =
unsafe
if a sudden wind comes up. It is too lightweight. Secondly=20
I think there was too much of a draft, since the flames went everywhere
(also unsafe). Even after I used sand to seal off the bottom, the flames
still went everywhere, through the ports, through the seams between the =
lid
and the sides. After 2 efforts to reach temperature (one 1.5 our period =
and
then after adjusting some things, another 45 minute period) I realized =
that
I will not be able to reach temperature in this kiln. We ended up with =
some
melting on the inside of 2 pieces, but the rest was just one big black =
smoke
mess.
In my view this is a poorly designed kiln and I will state that in my =
report
unless some of you clayarters will tell me what I=92ve done wrong. I =
taught
raku as an extended experience to my students in South Africa and had =
very
successful times, but it was 9 years ago and I might be forgetting some
details here. Lynn Barnwell, if I left out any details on the kiln, =
please
me fill in.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
William & Susan Schran User on mon 6 mar 06
On 3/6/06 11:53 AM, "Antoinette Badenhorst" wrote:
> This weekend I=B9ve tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not say where)
> for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with abou=
t 1=8E4
> inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 x2.=
5
> inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close the
> holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner (loo=
ked
> like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet an=
d
> then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted on
> probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the flame.=
I
> used a 100lb gas cylinder.
>=20
> The result was disappointing. Firstly I think the kiln will be very unsaf=
e
> if a sudden wind comes up. It is too lightweight
One of my students bought one of these kilns some time back.
She also could not get up to temperature.
I had her:
Build a 9" high wall of IFB. Original design had top of kiln sitting right
on the floor.
Had her raise the shelf to 9". I think it will work lower though.
Had her make certain the burner was not in or touching the burner port.
Had her set it back about an inch from the opening.
Had her get a pressure gauge and use less pressure.
She was going through a 20# tank of propane for one or two firings.
Had her cover one of the three flue holes with fiber blanket.
Had her get smaller diameter shelf.
She tried each thing, one at a time, but ended up doing all of the above to
get to raku temperature in less than 1/2 hour and several firings out of a
20# tank of propane.
Hope this helps,
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Taylor Hendrix on mon 6 mar 06
Antoinette:
I'm not sure if I can help you or not, but something in your
description bothers me. You say "We ended up with some melting on the
inside of 2 pieces, but the rest was just one big black smoke mess."=20
Are you saying that you actually had soot on your pots after firing
with gas? That sounds like mucho reduction if that's even possible.=20
Could it be possible that you are firing with a poorly adjusted burner
and that is preventing you from reaching temperature?
I know that I designed a friend's and my first raku kiln with an exit
flue too large. We had trouble getting to temperature, but when I
stopped down the exit flue by 50 percent, heating was much faster.=20
Try that.
Check your burner and try stopping down the exit flue and see if that helps=
.
Sigh, I miss my rakuing.
Taylor
On 3/6/06, Antoinette Badenhorst wrote:
...
> This weekend I've tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not say where)
> for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with abou=
t =BC
> inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 x2.=
5
> inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close the
> holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner (loo=
ked
> like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet an=
d
> then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted on
> probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the flame.=
I
> used a 100lb gas cylinder.
>
> The result was disappointing.
...
Vince Pitelka on tue 7 mar 06
Frank -
> Be certain that the
> burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
> do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside"
> the
> kiln.
Frank -
I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a very poor
design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually they
changed the design so that the burners have conventional flame-retention
tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have all
"functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted slightly
inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips. There's
no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port. The
flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
heatwork inside the kiln.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Tony Ferguson on tue 7 mar 06
Lynn,
Since you asked about plans: I have plans for kilns of my design that I have fired with kids of all ages every summer and via my classes in the studio--one kiln is approaching 150 maybe 170 firings now. If you want my step by step how to build plans (note: they are more expensive then Frank's) email me at fergyart@yahoo.com. I will soon also have anagama plans available as well.
Tony Ferguson
http://www.tonyferguson.net
Lynn Barnwell wrote:
Dear clayarters, in response to Antoinette's description
of the raku kiln we were working with... "I am afraid of
GAS" so I was nervous about all the flames coming out
everywhere. The seam where the kaowool met was not
overlapped and you could see into the kiln from that point. This was only
my second time trying to fire raku and was disappointed
that this was a top hat fiber kiln that is on the market.
Would another layer of fiber blanket wrapped around the
outside of the wire frame overlapping at a different point
than the first layer help the kiln? Also, why 3 ports on
the front? There was not a flue opening on the top, is
this necessary?
My first experience was great but this one had me rattled.
We were trying this kiln out before doing it with older
children. I think there were too many safety issues to
let any other than experienced pyromaniacs around the kiln.
Antoinette did not pick out this kiln, the school had
already purchased it and asked her to test it for them.
Anyone have a better solution? Frank Colson - I bought
your plans for the Rocky Raku a couple of years ago, guess
I need to find them and try to build it.
Lynn Barnwell
Hinkle Creek Pottery
Corinth, MS
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
fergy@cpinternet.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 7 mar 06
Well, I do not know all the different names you call the burners so I
searched the net to see if I can find any thing like this one. Seems =
like
this one is a weed burner since it looks like the one on this webpage:
http://www.eweedcontrol.com/ It is very different from the ones we used =
in
SA. One little detail that I left out was that I build a little brick
enclosure around the burner head that we tried out on several distances =
from
the kiln. It did not make any difference. More gas flow just gave us =
more
flames. My personal opinion is that there was too much draft since it =
felt
to me that we tried to make a fire in a wire box. But then....if they =
sell
these kilns like this, there should be a way right?
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Vince =
Pitelka
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:32 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
Frank -
> Be certain that the
> burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
> do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is =
"inside"
> the
> kiln.
Frank -
I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a very =
poor
design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually =
they
changed the design so that the burners have conventional flame-retention
tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have all
"functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted slightly
inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips. =
There's
no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port. =
The
flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
heatwork inside the kiln.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Craig Clark on tue 7 mar 06
Vince, what are you doin man?!?!?! This guy is a self important,
self promoting nit. Probably the only person I've ever developed a
strong distaste for in CyberSpace. I can't imagine that he doesn't write
some of what he does just to draw more attention to his site. Maybe I'm
wrong but I don't think so. He's like a white house press secretary when
it comes to obfuscation.
Craig
IVince Pitelka wrote:
> Frank -
>
>> Be certain that the
>> burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
>> do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside"
>> the
>> kiln.
>
>
> Frank -
> I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
> burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a
> very poor
> design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually
> they
> changed the design so that the burners have conventional flame-retention
> tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
>
> I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
> inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have all
> "functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted slightly
> inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips.
> There's
> no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
> forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port.
> The
> flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
> heatwork inside the kiln.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 7 mar 06
Hmm, Frank do you say that I did not open the gas well enough? In other
words I should have made a blue flame instead of a yellow one? Lynn, =
please
check in you book in Rocky Raku if it is the same burner that Frank =
describe
there that we used. That would make some sense to me, but I do still not
trust the kiln drum. Frank I mentioned else where that I forgot to =
mention
that I build a little brick enclosure around the burner head that I had
outside the opening. We tested it right at the opening as well as a bit
further away on different distances. Have to say, that flame was a mean =
one
comparing to the one I used before. I prefer the smaller burner head.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Frank =
Colson
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:00 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
Antoinette- Your blower is not forceful enough. It needs to be such =
that
it will nearly blow the flame off when you introduce fuel! This will
eliminate virtually all the problems you describe. Be certain that the
burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside" =
the
kiln. For details of burner operation of this kind, see the system
which ROCKY RAKU uses at www.R2D2u.com
Frank Colson
www.R2D2u.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antoinette Badenhorst"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Analyzing this raku kiln.
Dear Clayarters, I've done my last successful raku firing 9 years ago in =
SA.
I had a successful kiln made of an oil drum lined with about 3cm (close =
to
an inch) kaowool, regular red bricks on the bottom ( we called them
mamparas), a burner with a narrow head and an old vacuum cleaner that =
was
reversed to blow instead of suck. The drum was cut in half with a square =
cut
out of the cut rim to allow the heat into the kiln and a port at the =
top, to
observe the kiln inside and create just enough of a draft to keep the =
flame
going. I had a shelf lifted one brick high off the floor of the kiln.
This weekend I've tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not say =
where)
for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with =
about =BC
inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 =
x2.5
inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close the
holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner =
(looked
like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet =
and
then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted =
on
probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the =
flame. I
used a 100lb gas cylinder.
The result was disappointing. Firstly I think the kiln will be very =
unsafe
if a sudden wind comes up. It is too lightweight. Secondly
I think there was too much of a draft, since the flames went everywhere
(also unsafe). Even after I used sand to seal off the bottom, the flames
still went everywhere, through the ports, through the seams between the =
lid
and the sides. After 2 efforts to reach temperature (one 1.5 our period =
and
then after adjusting some things, another 45 minute period) I realized =
that
I will not be able to reach temperature in this kiln. We ended up with =
some
melting on the inside of 2 pieces, but the rest was just one big black =
smoke
mess.
In my view this is a poorly designed kiln and I will state that in my =
report
unless some of you clayarters will tell me what I've done wrong. I =
taught
raku as an extended experience to my students in South Africa and had =
very
successful times, but it was 9 years ago and I might be forgetting some
details here. Lynn Barnwell, if I left out any details on the kiln, =
please
me fill in.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 7 mar 06
Thanks Bill. I think I will try all these suggestions you made, just to =
challenge this kiln, but I also think I will be more happy with a =
sturdier raku drum when I work with children. I am planning to build a =
little fence around the kiln operation to let them watch from a =
distance, but one can never be to cautious.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of William & =
Susan Schran User
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:45 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
On 3/6/06 11:53 AM, "Antoinette Badenhorst" =
wrote:
> This weekend I=C2=B9ve tested a small kiln. It was bought (will not =
say where)
> for one of the schools that I work with. It is a wire enclosure with =
about 1=C5=BD4
> inch kaowool. It had a metal can lid at the top and 3 holes about 3.5 =
x2.5
> inches on the one side high up on the drum. I cut 3 bricks to close =
the
> holes (ports if you wish). The floor was firebricks. I used a burner =
(looked
> like a standard one used for raku in America) with a narrow gas outlet =
and
> then the attached metal tub of about 3.5 inches. The shelve was lifted =
on
> probes about 5 inches high and a small brick was used to split the =
flame. I
> used a 100lb gas cylinder.
>=20
> The result was disappointing. Firstly I think the kiln will be very =
unsafe
> if a sudden wind comes up. It is too lightweight
One of my students bought one of these kilns some time back.
She also could not get up to temperature.
I had her:
Build a 9" high wall of IFB. Original design had top of kiln sitting =
right
on the floor.
Had her raise the shelf to 9". I think it will work lower though.
Had her make certain the burner was not in or touching the burner port.
Had her set it back about an inch from the opening.
Had her get a pressure gauge and use less pressure.
She was going through a 20# tank of propane for one or two firings.
Had her cover one of the three flue holes with fiber blanket.
Had her get smaller diameter shelf.
She tried each thing, one at a time, but ended up doing all of the above =
to
get to raku temperature in less than 1/2 hour and several firings out of =
a
20# tank of propane.
Hope this helps,
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 7 mar 06
Come on Craig.....attack the subject not the person. I was opening your
e-mail with much enthusiasm for more constructive information on this
subject and found this remark very disappointing. Please do not waste my =
and
your and other clayarters precious time and energy on this kind of =
unwanted
remarks. Vince challenged the suggestion, not the person. Please tell me =
why
you disagree with what Frank has said here....if you have the knowledge =
to
do so.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Craig Clark
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:35 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
Vince, what are you doin man?!?!?! This guy is a self important,
self promoting nit. Probably the only person I've ever developed a
strong distaste for in CyberSpace. I can't imagine that he doesn't write
some of what he does just to draw more attention to his site. Maybe I'm
wrong but I don't think so. He's like a white house press secretary when
it comes to obfuscation.
Craig
IVince Pitelka wrote:
> Frank -
>
>> Be certain that the
>> burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
>> do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is =
"inside"
>> the
>> kiln.
>
>
> Frank -
> I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
> burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a
> very poor
> design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually
> they
> changed the design so that the burners have conventional =
flame-retention
> tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
>
> I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
> inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have =
all
> "functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted =
slightly
> inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips.
> There's
> no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
> forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port.
> The
> flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
> heatwork inside the kiln.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Taylor Hendrix on tue 7 mar 06
My buddy Antoinette!
If you are using a weed burner (like I do), are you also using a
regulator at the tank with a pressure gague? I see from the link you
gave that it has a regulator but no gague. Since you confirmed for me
off list that you do indeed have soot on your pots, I'm willing to bet
that the weed burner is not set up right.
I did not need any forced air whatsoever when I fired our raku
conversion with a weed burner. First firing took about an hour to
reach temp, and 30 minutes thereafter. That kiln had much more
thermal mass than yours does, was an old square paragon with 4" walls.
On 3/7/06, Antoinette Badenhorst wrote:
> Well, I do not know all the different names you call the burners so I
> searched the net to see if I can find any thing like this one. Seems like
> this one is a weed burner since it looks like the one on this webpage:
> http://www.eweedcontrol.com/ It is very different from the ones we used i=
n
> SA. One little detail that I left out was that I build a little brick
> enclosure around the burner head that we tried out on several distances f=
rom
> the kiln. It did not make any difference. More gas flow just gave us more
> flames. My personal opinion is that there was too much draft since it fel=
t
> to me that we tried to make a fire in a wire box. But then....if they sel=
l
> these kilns like this, there should be a way right?
--
Taylor, in Rockport TX
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://clayartmugshots.blogspot.com
Craig Clark on tue 7 mar 06
Antoinette, sorry about that. I did not mean to send that e-mail to
clayart. Meant to send it directly to Vince. I was doing a coupla
different things at once and didn't make sure about the addey before it
was sent. I'll probably even send an apology to Frank, maybe. I do think
he is way into self pro-mo, and he really is one of the only persons
that I've developed a healthy dislike for in cyber space. He just rubs
me the wrong way with the way he will give folks a little bit of info
and then bait them to his web sight where he will sell them the rest of
the information. This is something which I find offensive. To me ClayArt
is about the open exchange of information and ideas about clay for free.
That's the way Mel made it and that's what most folks do. You are right
though, that was an attack of the person, though I've been called worse
on this very site....lol...and have flamed into a few others as well.
I'll try not to do it again.
As to his info about the burner location listen to Vince. He knows
of what he speaks. Frank does also, but there is always some type of odd
twist to his information....leading of course to his web site. Keep the
burners about a half inch from the outside of the kiln. I've fire a
bunch of raku kilns, both with venturi and power burners, seen many,
many demos, videos, etc., and have seen and set up the burners about a
half inch from the kiln as well.
Craig
Antoinette Badenhorst wrote:
>Come on Craig.....attack the subject not the person. I was opening your
>e-mail with much enthusiasm for more constructive information on this
>subject and found this remark very disappointing. Please do not waste my and
>your and other clayarters precious time and energy on this kind of unwanted
>remarks. Vince challenged the suggestion, not the person. Please tell me why
>you disagree with what Frank has said here....if you have the knowledge to
>do so.
>
>Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact me
>for information.
>Antoinette Badenhorst
>105 Westwood Circle
>Saltillo MS, 38866
>662 869 1651
>www.clayandcanvas.com
>www.southernartistry.org
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Craig Clark
>Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:35 AM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
>
> Vince, what are you doin man?!?!?! This guy is a self important,
>self promoting nit. Probably the only person I've ever developed a
>strong distaste for in CyberSpace. I can't imagine that he doesn't write
>some of what he does just to draw more attention to his site. Maybe I'm
>wrong but I don't think so. He's like a white house press secretary when
>it comes to obfuscation.
>Craig
>
> IVince Pitelka wrote:
>
>
>
>>Frank -
>>
>>
>>
>>>Be certain that the
>>>burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
>>>do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside"
>>>the
>>>kiln.
>>>
>>>
>>Frank -
>>I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
>>burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a
>>very poor
>>design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually
>>they
>>changed the design so that the burners have conventional flame-retention
>>tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
>>
>>I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
>>inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have all
>>"functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted slightly
>>inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips.
>>There's
>>no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
>>forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port.
>>The
>>flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
>>heatwork inside the kiln.
>>- Vince
>>
>>Vince Pitelka
>>Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
>>Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>>vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>
>
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Frank Colson on tue 7 mar 06
Well, Vince- I do respect your experience and comments on this subject. I
have gone your way too. Back in the 50's in Los Angeles, when we knew
nearly nothing about kiln firing systems , except what Alpine Kiln Co.
manufactured, and then a little later at Syracuse , with some systems coming
out of Alfred, one never saw a burner "inside" a chamber wall. By the 70's
when I was giving national and international bronze casting demos, those
burner heads (only with forced air) were all inside the walls. That came
from seeing the melts at Talix, Modern Art Foundry, Cuberten outside of
Paris, and in the UK. Those systems were so damn efficient they out
performed all other type of "outside the wall" burners. By the time my kiln
building book, published in '75, came out, I show 2 nice pics (side insert
view and top) of burner heads inside the chamber for my "Portable Raku
Kiln"chapter. And, today, my online ROCKY RAKU kiln uses an inside
inserted burner with a 2-bit ($5.00 trash vac) which comes up to 1800
degrees F in less than one minute. The key to the success of this kind of
system is not really
so much about the inserted burner, as it is in exactly how the air and fuel
is mixed in proportion to the orifice size of the fuel line inside the
burner. It's knowing what sound level to "listen" for to determine the
proper combustion efficiency.
I am pleased to learn that your described system works for you, as I am sure
it does for many others. Like you, I have built numerous kilns
in many parts of the world and when it comes to forced air burners, mine are
always inserted in order to procure the best efficiency, and my burner heads
never burn off!
Thanks for your comments!
Frank Colson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: Analyzing this raku kiln.
> Frank -
> > Be certain that the
> > burner head is just inside the kiln wall. Forced air burners
> > do not function properly unless combustion at the burner tip is "inside"
> > the
> > kiln.
>
> Frank -
> I'd love for you to elaborate on the statement above. The forced-air
> burners on the Alpine kilns, with the tips inside the kiln, were a very
poor
> design, even with those refractory tips they used to use. Eventually they
> changed the design so that the burners have conventional flame-retention
> tips mounted just outside the kiln wall.
>
> I have built lots of kilns with forced-air burners, and I have never
> inserted the tip into the burner port, and those burner systems have all
> "functioned properly." In my experience, a burner tip mounted slightly
> inside the burner port is a sure recipe for burnt-out burner tips.
There's
> no reason for it that I can see. I've always mounted the tip of a
> forced-air burner about a 1/2" away from the face of the burner port. The
> flame-retention tip lasts forever, and the flame still does all it's
> heatwork inside the kiln.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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