Nanci Mansfield on fri 31 mar 06
What a great story!
When I first moved to Colorado many years ago I took a dig class at a small Anasazi site north of Cortez. Afterward, I stayed with some folks who grew wheat and barley. Every farmer in the area had a collection of complete pots of all shapes and sizes. My hostess told me that in her youth entertainment in the area was packing a picnic and going 'moki digging' for artifacts. I did a lot of searching but never found a complete pot. I picked up a lot of potsherds, many of them Mancos black on white style, and still have a small collection. When I returned to the mountains, I picked up a box of corrugated sherds at the college. With the help of Elmers glue and much patience, I turned it into a pretty darned nice cooking pot that I didn't get to keep. I have to admit that I thought it pretty special to find 1000 year old fingerprints in some of those pinched coils.
Nanci
Arnold Howard wrote:
When I was 12, I was visiting Leptis Magna and found
a very old ceramic bowl. To read about this, please
visit www.paragonweb.com and scroll down toward the
bottom of the home page.
I look forward to hearing from others who have had
experiences with ancient pottery.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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Arnold Howard on fri 31 mar 06
When I was 12, I was visiting Leptis Magna and found
a very old ceramic bowl. To read about this, please
visit www.paragonweb.com and scroll down toward the
bottom of the home page.
I look forward to hearing from others who have had
experiences with ancient pottery.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Cheryl Weickert on fri 31 mar 06
Beautiful Arnold, what a rich childhood experience. Just dieing to know
if you kept that bowl and the tiles you found?
Pinky in wet, grey snow melting MN.
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:34:23 -0600, Arnold Howard
wrote:
>When I was 12, I was visiting Leptis Magna and found
>a very old ceramic bowl. To read about this, please
>visit www.paragonweb.com and scroll down toward the
>bottom of the home page.
Bonnie Staffel on sat 1 apr 06
Dear Clayarters,
I have had an ancient pot in my family for all my life and who knows how
long before that. However, I cannot find its origins. It is just a =
grey
colored clay with dark decorations. But it also has a foot. In all my
searching of the American ancient pots I don't find any pictures with a
foot. It has the typical shape of the bowl bottom with a wide shallow =
neck.
I believe the Ancient Pot was purchased by my folks on their honeymoon =
in
1920 when they traveled out west to visit the National Parks. I can =
put it
on Flickr as I ran across a photo recently that I took of it. Hope =
there
are some historians out there in Clayart Land. I am including a photo =
of a
pot that my family purchased on a trip out west the summer of 1936 when =
we
visited an Indian Reservation in New Mexico.. =20
Many thanks for any help in solving my puzzle. =20
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Bonnie Staffel on sat 1 apr 06
I have just sent my photos to Flickr of my ancient pot asking for some
information about its origin as well as a tourist pot that we purchased in
New Mexico in 1936. Any information on the Ancient Pot would be greatly
appreciated. Click on this URL and Tag Bonnie Staffel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Craig Clark on sat 1 apr 06
If it isn't Anasazi it could possible be Mimbres.
Craig
Nanci Mansfield wrote:
>The decoration sure does look Anasazi. I don't know about that foot, either. I can't remember what kind of bottom the decorative pots had.
> Nanci
>
>Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> I have just sent my photos to Flickr of my ancient pot asking for some
>information about its origin as well as a tourist pot that we purchased in
>New Mexico in 1936. Any information on the Ancient Pot would be greatly
>appreciated. Click on this URL and Tag Bonnie Staffel
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart
>
>Warm regards,
>
>Bonnie Staffel
>
>http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
>DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
>DVD Beginning Processes
>Charter Member Potters Council
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Vince Pitelka on sat 1 apr 06
Bonnie -
The pot you show on the Flickr site is almost certainly Anasazi. The color
of the clay and markings are appropriate. But "Anasazi" is such a broad
reference, and there are so many possible variations. You could send
pictures to archaeologists at University of New Mexico and I'll bet they
would tell you what it is. It's a beautiful piece.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Earl Brunner on sat 1 apr 06
The "ancient" pot may not be American Indian, I have
seen similar pots from China. It's funny how similar
many of the design motifs are from different ancient
culteres. If you do a check on ebay for Neolithic
Chinese pots, you will see similar designs. Yours
"looks" pretty authentic to me. Just need to find out
from where.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
Behalf Of Bonnie Staffel
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 8:26 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: An ancient lesson in ceramics
I have just sent my photos to Flickr of my ancient pot
asking for some
information about its origin as well as a tourist pot
that we purchased in
New Mexico in 1936. Any information on the Ancient Pot
would be greatly
appreciated. Click on this URL and Tag Bonnie Staffel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
_______________________________________________________
_______________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change
your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Nanci Mansfield on sat 1 apr 06
The decoration sure does look Anasazi. I don't know about that foot, either. I can't remember what kind of bottom the decorative pots had.
Nanci
Bonnie Staffel wrote:
I have just sent my photos to Flickr of my ancient pot asking for some
information about its origin as well as a tourist pot that we purchased in
New Mexico in 1936. Any information on the Ancient Pot would be greatly
appreciated. Click on this URL and Tag Bonnie Staffel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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Claudia MacPhee on sat 1 apr 06
I can understand your feelings about that pot Arnold. During the time I lived in Mexico I collected all the shards, arrowheads, lance points I came upon (LOTS, they were everywhere). Sitting aroound in the evenings while waiting for the parrots to fly across the valley to their roost trees I would dump my box of shards out on the table and go thru them. I would imagine the people who made them and their life. I did know that the marks on the pots weren't just artistic designs, but religious symbols, some knowable by us and some not. The potshards were a window into the past. I lost that box on one of my many moves, the memory however still lives.They still had the power to 'speak'.
Claudia MacPhee, Tagish Yukon where I saw 3 trumpeter swans yesterday!! Finally Springtime
lee love on sun 2 apr 06
Probably, my first awareness of pots came from my mother making
Japanese pickles out of vegetables she grew from seeds she bought at
the Japanese grocery store in Detroit. I don't know if she ever had
one, but when ever she would see a nice Redwing crock, she would say
that it would be perfect for making pickles with.
She has some kind of crock, a plain one. The other aspect
associated with pickle making, was that when we travelled to the
country, we always kept our eyes open for good stones to go with the
pickle crock. How this worked, was that the pickles and brine or
nuka mix were put in the crock, then a plate that would fit nicely
inside the crock was put in, and then a stone was put on the plate to
press the pickles. Best stones were ovals with a flat bottom.
When I started mading pots and was of sufficent skill to make a
nice sized crock, I told her I would make "the perfect pickle crock."
She told me, "No thank you. I have a plastic one that seals tight
and doesn't stink up the kitchen. Modern pickle makers are plastic
and have a screw press to press the pickles. She pass way (from the
flu of all things), my first New Years here in Mashiko.
I should start making pickles. Will make the perfect pickle
crock...
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/
"On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog."
Laurel Carey on sun 2 apr 06
On Mar 31, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Arnold Howard wrote:
I have a lot of ancient pottery shards and also mud bricks with
cuneiform writing on them that I found as a child in Iran. I lived
there all my life until I went to high school. I never found
anything intact, you are lucky. They are of a sandy buff clay, with
geometric patterns on them. Interestingly, not too different from
Bonnie's pot!
From looking at books later on I would hazard a guess that
they are about 5000 BCE.
I don't have a website to post pictures on, but if anyone is
interested I could find the box and take some photos to be emailed.
The clay looks very similar to the clay of modern (well, pre-revolution)
pieces that I have from Iran. The clay that these potters work with
must be so difficult to use - although they made it look easy.
It was scarcely plastic at all - more of a sandy grit slurry. But these
guys did magical things, especially when they saw they had an
audience.
I saw plates being turned into tall narrow vases and then back
down into plates. At the time, I thought it was pretty keen,
but it wasn't until I learned to throw that I realized how exceptional
that was. The fired clay is very brittle, sandy, gritty - both the
modern
and the ancient.
Thanks for reminding me,
Laurel
> When I was 12, I was visiting Leptis Magna and found
> a very old ceramic bowl. To read about this, please
> visit www.paragonweb.com and scroll down toward the
> bottom of the home page.
>
> I look forward to hearing from others who have had
> experiences with ancient pottery.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
> ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
John Guerin on sun 2 apr 06
The design is a very good Anasazi reproduction but the prehistoric Anasazi
never put foot rings on their pots. Their pots were always rounded on the
bottom.
John Guerin
Tucson,AZ ----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: An ancient lesson in ceramics
> Bonnie -
> The pot you show on the Flickr site is almost certainly Anasazi. The
> color
> of the clay and markings are appropriate. But "Anasazi" is such a broad
> reference, and there are so many possible variations. You could send
> pictures to archaeologists at University of New Mexico and I'll bet they
> would tell you what it is. It's a beautiful piece.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
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William Lucius on mon 3 apr 06
I agree with John Guerin - I have never seen a foot ring on an Anasazi =
(Ancestral Pueblo) pot. Instead of flat bottoms they wove nice rings =
out of yucca leaves or dug a little hole in the (dirt) floor and filled =
it with sand for the pot to sit on. The pot could be from the early =
contact period when Rio Grande Pueblo potters were still making =
black-on-white pots and in contact with the Spanish, who of course put =
foot rings on their pots. From the photo it looks like iron paint but I =
do not recognize the design layout.
I am still thinking about the little brown pot with the manganese =
design. I am not as knowledgeable as I would like to be about Historic =
Pueblo pottery, since my focus has always been on prehistoric pottery.
As a pre-teen we vacationed in SE Utah on my parents old homestead with =
its numerous prehistoric houses and trash middens full of broken =
pottery. By the time I was a young teenager I was making and firing =
(and breaking) replicas trying to figure out the technology. And I am =
still doing it. In the interval I also managed to become a studio =
potter as well as the director of a research institute whose primary =
focus is on archaeological ceramics. I guess you could say that =
finding those broken bits of pottery led me to where I am today. If you =
want to really learn about ancient pottery we have several ongoing =
research projects where you can find and source pottery (but not keep =
it). We also teach folks how to make and fire replicas. As I noted in =
an earlier posting, we will have two separate firings this summer in the =
Four Corners area of the Southwest.
William A. Lucius, Board President
Institute for Archaeological Ceramic Research
845 Hartford Drive
Boulder, CO 80305
iacr@msn.com
Bonnie Staffel on mon 3 apr 06
Thanks for all your assistance. I have written to the UNM to ask for help.
I have not received any information yet, but will let you all know when or
if I do. Many searches that I have had came up with the Anasazi origin,
still no foot on any of those pots I used for reference.
Bonnie Staffel of Charlevoix where I woke up to a very wet heavy snowfall
with the tree branches bending under the weight. This came after lovely
sunny days with temperatures up to the 60's.
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Arnold Howard on mon 3 apr 06
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Weickert"
> Beautiful Arnold, what a rich childhood experience.
> Just dieing to know
> if you kept that bowl and the tiles you found?
Thank you. The Roman tiles and ceramic bowl are still
in Libya, probably covered with sand by now.
The richest part of my Leptis Magna experience was
the feeling of the place. I felt like I had gone back
in time. It reminded me of the movie "Patton."
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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