Vince Pitelka on tue 4 apr 06
"B" (whoever that is) wrote:
"> Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would
you
> use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
> anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot?"
B -
I suppose you could use some kind of plastic sealer, but not in order to use
the piece as functional ware. Pit-fired and bonfired wares are not for
food-service use. In the cultures where they use unglazed pottery, the
children grow up with resistance to the bacteria that grow in the clay. If
you or me prepared and ate food out of unglazed pitfired wares, we'd likely
experience intense gastrointestinal distress. Best to just accept that
pitfired and bonfired wares are decorative and non-functional, and make
glazed wares to drink your coffee.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
thepotter on tue 4 apr 06
Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would you
use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot? Just curious. Thanks for
your input.
B in rainy RI
Vicki Hardin on tue 4 apr 06
Hey B. Just thought I would say that I would not recommend drinking from pit
fire pieces that are fired with chemicals such as ferric chloride and such.
As for sealing a pot, I work with a very textured surface so wax even when
put on a warm pot sometimes is not very easy to apply. It gets in the
cracks and you have to dig it out or torch it and buff it off. What I have
found to my liking is to use clear acrylic spray as if it were wax. So, it
is wiped off the pot as it is applied. This gives a very wax like surface
and is seemingly more durable. Be careful not to put a lot on as it will
dry before you wipe it down and then the surface would be too shiny.
Regards,
Vicki Hardin
http://vickihardin.com
Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would you
use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot? Just curious. Thanks for
your input.
B in rainy RI
Kurt Wild on tue 4 apr 06
I have used Tung oil.
Tung oil does a good job of sealing
and does not change the quality of the surface.
It does not totally waterproof a pot though.
Do not use Tung Oil Varnish
or you'll get a glossy surface.
Maxwell, Deborah on tue 4 apr 06
I have polished my pit fired pieces with Johnson paste wax. It gives a
soft seen but it does not seal them. Bonnie has posted and used a sealer
- Weldbond? (check archives.)
Because the pit fire is low fire the pieces are not food safe but
enjoyed for their beauty. Good luck!
Deborah J. Bassett-Maxwell
Kimball, MI
www.greatpottery.com
www.redmuddcreations.com
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of thepotter
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:12 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: sealing pit fire ware
Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would
you
use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot? Just curious. Thanks
for
your input.
B in rainy RI
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Taylor Hendrix on tue 4 apr 06
Hey B in RI
I wouldn't have coffee out of any pot! ptooy. Now if you had asked
would I try Dr Pepper out of a pit fired pot I would have said, "No,
it a waste of perfectly good Dr Pepper." The only function of pit
fired pots fired here in NA is the function of looking really cool.=20
The bodies I use in the pit are nowhere near fused enough to contain
water without leaking. Also, when I've fired pots with copper
sulfate, copper carbonate, miracle grow, etc. I don't want to lick the
pots afterwards no matter how yummy they look.
As for sealing pots. I have just started but I do use a good paste
wax for the burnished pots and a stinky grout sealer for my
unburnished pots. They seem to work fine. Still, these are not
outdoor pots nor drinky eaty pots.
Lauren Bollero, Bonnie Staffel, Judith Motzkin and others have been
very helpful in my pit journey. I'm sure you'll get plenty of
suggestions regarding sealing pots.
burn 'em in the ground!
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 4/4/06, thepotter wrote:
> Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would =
you
> use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
> anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot? Just curious. Thanks for
> your input.
> B in rainy RI
2ley on wed 5 apr 06
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> certainly is not one of them. Everything about the pit firing process
> makes
> it inappropriate for functional pots.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't pit firing exactly how we got
our first functional wares in history? I'm not trying to be a smartass or
anything, but surely I'm missing something here.
Philip Tuley
Lauren Bellero on wed 5 apr 06
>Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would you
>use? Are they useful at all in the usual sense of functional ware? Has
>anyone ever had coffee out of a pit fired pot?
with what i put in my pit --chemicals and dung-- and what i
seal my pit fire work with, i wouldn't want to drink out of them!
anyway, that's not what they're meant for. their function is: decorative!
at various times, i've used all of the following (individually!)
inside the pots to seal for water (people want to put flowers
in everything--makes me crazy!): thompson's water seal
(i think this needs to be reapplied periodically), oil polyurethane
(too thick sometimes to work with), and most recently, thanks
to bonnie staffel: weldbond (a kind of super adhesive/sealer
product that looks just like elmers glue, but is something different)
diluted 10:1 with water.
i like to seal the outside too (anything that will preserve the look
of the intensified colors as when they are wet): i've used various
waxes: floor wax, butchers paste wax (i just don't like the look --
maybe i haven't applied it properly...), oil polyurethane
(too much work, and often had drips form -- not good!).
i've settled on acrylic sprays (there are matt and shiny versions).
so much easier when dealing with lots of pots.
best of luck,
lauren
--
Lauren Bellero, Mudslingers Pottery
http://mudslingerspottery.net
Red Bank, NJ
David Woof on wed 5 apr 06
Primitive pit fired pottery, from antiquity to present, was and is by some
potters being sealed with naturally acquired plant resins. Some of these
certainly were non toxic, and rendered the ware "functional" by how one
would interpret the word according to the uses they were put to. See
archives here and google up more.
David
_________________________________
_________________________________
David Woof Studio
Clarkdale, Arizona
Ph. 928-821-3747 Fax. 866-881-3461
________________________________
________________________________
peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
earlk on wed 5 apr 06
On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 20:58 -0500, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> "B" (whoever that is) wrote:
> "> Has anyone ever tried sealing a pot that has been pit fired? What would
> you use?
> I suppose you could use some kind of plastic sealer, but not in order to use
> the piece as functional ware. ...
> Best to just accept that
> pitfired and bonfired wares are decorative and non-functional, and make
> glazed wares to drink your coffee.
But Vince, these are modern times, surely
there is a way to do this.
I can imagine a process where the pot was
subjected to a high vacuum to remove the
air from the pores. Then the pot would be
immersed in a liquid plastic after which
the vacuum would be released. The liquid
would penetrate the pores and with subsequent
curing the pot and all the nasties would be
fully encased in a durable plastic. Water
proof and serviceable as functional ware.
Now, somebody go do the research, get the
patent and make a fortune.
Would this still be pottery?
earlk...
bothell, wa, usa
Vince Pitelka on wed 5 apr 06
> But Vince, these are modern times, surely
> there is a way to do this.
> I can imagine a process where the pot was
> subjected to a high vacuum to remove the
> air from the pores. Then the pot would be
> immersed in a liquid plastic after which
> the vacuum would be released. The liquid
> would penetrate the pores and with subsequent
> curing the pot and all the nasties would be
> fully encased in a durable plastic. Water
> proof and serviceable as functional ware.
Earl -
I certainly don't eat out of plastic functional ware, and I wouldn't even
consider eating out of a pit fired piece sealed with plastic. Please do not
take offense, Earl, but I think that trying to seal a pitfired piece to make
it hygenic is a ridiculous idea. "Modern times" has nothing to do with it.
There are appropriate methods for making utilitarian pottery, and pit firing
certainly is not one of them. Everything about the pit firing process makes
it inappropriate for functional pots.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on thu 6 apr 06
Philip Tuley wrote:
"> Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't pit firing exactly how we got
> our first functional wares in history? I'm not trying to be a smartass or
> anything, but surely I'm missing something here."
Philip -
Well, no, they were bonfired rather than pitfired. And as I clearly
explained in a previous Clayart post, in our culture we do not have
resistance to the bacteria that grow in porous clay, and thus would
experience severe intestinal distress if attacked by those bacteria. You
have to grow up from birth with those bacteria in order to develop such
resistance, and in those cultures, the resistance may even be inherited.
The idea of sealing pitfired wares in order to use them as utilitarian pots
seems incredibly impractical and inappropriate. I am surprised that anyone
would even consider it.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Bonnie Staffel on thu 6 apr 06
Back in my early days of making pottery, there was a sealing remedy for
teapots where the glaze had crazed.. The premise was that the tea =
itself
would seal the pores, and that one never washed a teapot in soapy water, =
but
let the tannin (?) build up inside the pot. Another remedy that was =
widely
used was to soak the pot in milk. I did not like the latter remedy as =
then
you got the "pantry" odor to your dishes from the soured milk residue in =
the
pores. It might be interesting to test using strong tea as a sealant.
However, there might be a stain left from the tea. =20
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Earl Brunner on thu 6 apr 06
Most people don't just take the clay out of the ground, form the pot, burnish it and then fire it in the traditional, original sense. They often mix chemicals and colorants with the stuff in the pit to get colored flashing, etc, etc. Then too, we don't live in the same environment and handle food the same way as they did (or do) at those other levels of technology. Unglazed, lowfired ware is inherently porous among other things, it fits the technology of the food preparation and usage level that matches the way it was made. Have you ever gone to another country and gotten sick by eating the food or drinking the water? Generally the people who live there don't get sick from the same thing.
Its not that pots made this way are not good pots, just different, and their usage has limitations. Have you ever heard, "form follows function"? Well not only does the design or form determine the function of an object, but what it's made from and how it's made, limits that function as well. If you pit fire a "functional" pot, say a teapot, then doesn't the purchaser have the reasonable expectation to be able to use that pot for that function? Think about it, you have these limitations imposed on the pot by the way it was made, but you want to use the pot in a manner which is affected by the limitations, so you have to change the limitations of the pot. Seal it somehow for example. What will you use? What are the sealants limitations? I think what is being said is that when you mix the two levels of technology in your food handling, or any other use of a pot, you had better know what you are doing.
I had to take some visually really nice glazes out of the city studio, because people were being idiots and using the glazes inappropriately. I would say (and post on the bucket) "this glaze is not food safe, do not apply to food surfaces" . They would do it anyway. Their excuse? "Well, I'm not going to put food in this BOWL." or "I'm not going to drink out of this CUP". How the hell do they know what their grandchild is going to do with that pot? "Grandma made this bowl, I'm going to eat my food out of it everytime I need a bowl". "Grandma made this mug, I'm going to drink my orange juice out of it everyday."
2ley <2ley@MCHSI.COM> wrote:
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> certainly is not one of them. Everything about the pit firing process
> makes
> it inappropriate for functional pots.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't pit firing exactly how we got
our first functional wares in history? I'm not trying to be a smartass or
anything, but surely I'm missing something here.
Philip Tuley
Earl Brunner
e-mail: brunv53@yahoo.com
Vicki Hardin on fri 7 apr 06
Philip Tuley wrote:
"> Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't pit firing exactly how we got
> our first functional wares in history? I'm not trying to be a
> smartass or anything, but surely I'm missing something here."
Another thing to consider and I don't have the exact number, but I don't
think the age expectancy for ancient man was any where near what ours is
today. I am willing to bet that sanitation probably played into that.
Vicki Hardin
http://vickihardin.com
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