JOYCE LEE on fri 7 apr 06
Kelly, sweetie, you know better than I that we each teach others
how to treat us...... including our families, friends AND students......
NOT excluding students' parents. My God..... I am overwhelmed
with the possible suggestions for you.... there are So Many.
Fortunately, Elizabeth, Earl and others have seen to it that you
hear them.
Do keep in mind though that even Pre-school and After-school
more or less babysitting services routinely CHARGE double or
more for STAYING to watch a child when the caretaker is late
picking him up. Many charge for minimum segments of
fifteen or thirty minutes. Some have a minimum charge of one
hour even if the parent is only five minutes late. This is fairly
standard throughout the country, or so I'm informed by our local
traveling Navy families who've lived "all over." Whatever your
bottom line is for financial compensation, please do not make
exceptions ...... and no First Time Freebies...... you'll then
become a bookkeeper in addition to a babysitter when what=20
you want to do is to teach...... period. After all, this isn't to be
equated with giving away free pots in order to get your product
out there. You do not want to babysit. =20
Come on. Think. What would a professional do?
Joyce
In the Mojave desert of California thinking that she lives at Physical
Therapy and visits home now and then. I've been wearing my NCECA
tee-shirts for therapy sessions...... so I won't forget my ultimate
goal of once again traveling full time on the road to Becoming a Full
Time Potter, whatever Full Time turns out to mean to me. It's so easy
to get caught up in the here&now... in the
minute details of doing what I'm told in order to Get Better. Getting
Better has to have some greater reward than just doing more of the
same ..... but sometimes I forget that. I don't want to labor
in order to walk faster and caneless unless it means that I'm going to
have some more interesting place to go, eh?
Bonita Cohn on mon 10 apr 06
I do a website for an organization that has summer
camp. here is some of the requirements UPFRONT that
are enforced for late parents, misbehaviors, etc.
the site is:
www.crissyfield.org.
Its a great summer camp!
++++++++++++++++++++
some of the registration disclaimers:
Transaction Fee: There is a $10 transaction fee for
each change made after your application is received
and processed.
Extended Care Fee: Extended care is available from 4
to 5:30 for an additional $15 per day. Sign up on the
first day of your camp session. This fee is
non-refundable.
Confirmation: Confirmation is sent by email or Postal
Service, and camp packets are mailed for all
registrations. If a program is full, you will be
contacted to see if you would like to be added to a
wait list. Should a space become available, we will
notify you via phone and hold the space for 24 hours.
Cancellation and Refund Policy: For cancellations up
to two weeks prior to the beginning of camp, 75
percent of the total payment is refunded. No refund is
given for cancellations after that deadline. If a camp
does not fill, Crissy Field Center reserves the right
to cancel, and will issue a full refund for the
session.
In order to provide maximum attention and safety for
each camper, our staff reserves the right to dismiss a
child early if his/her behavior is felt to be unsafe
or unmanageable, or if an illness or injury requiring
a doctor's attention occurs. In this case, no refund
is available.
Late Fee: If your child remains at the Center more
than 15 minutes after the time for which s/he is
registered, there is a $5-per-5-minutes late fee. This
fee is applied without exception.
Other Camp Information
Non-enrolled campers are not allowed in camp
sessions.
Crissy Field Center reserves the right to remove an
enrolled camper if they do not meet the specified age
requirement.
+++++++++++++++++++
Its a tough job - only the brave do ti!
Bonita in San Francisco.
Bonita Cohn
http://www.bonitacohn.com
__________________________________________________
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Kristin Yount on sun 16 apr 06
Kell,
Hey there!
I agree with Earl but not because of the autism obviously. Any child
that is in an extra curricular clay class should be
there because he wants to be there.Otherwise it is too disruptive.
Really just tell the Mom: " He doesn't want to be here period" hearing
it once isn't enough. My experience is that once you say it twice they
get it. The first time you suggested it
she probably took it to mean "talk to your kid and straighten him out".
Which probably just made him more
anxious about coming to class.
Just refund her money and tell her to come back
whenever he is ready to do pots. It really doesn't have to do anything
with Autism.
I have had disruptive kids (young) who just
really wanted to be playing soccer.
Don't make it about his disorder because every kid has
preferences.
I am sure you know
I can so understand. I just ran a five week class
for home schooled kids and the ages were so far apart(5-17) and the
parents STAYED IN THE ROOM.
I let this continue, even though only half of the kids were really into
it.AND I wasn't the teacher and
she was ok with the devil may care flow of the class and that was good
because we really need customers.
As an example I gave every one almost
total scholarships and they hardly ever even showed up for class but I
had to pay my teacher
$15 to show up whether hay did or not ! The woman teaching the class
was a lot easier going than me
and she doesn't have to make it work on paper so she was slightly less
stressed than I was about the situation.
So I subbed once and the kids were so rude: as in talking while I was
giving instruction even after I asked them to pay attention-
quite nicely, when we were glazing I got "that's not how Ms. Kim does it
you're doing it WRONG!"
. They hated me and told their Mom. It was the day the Mom went to
coffee during class I guess.
I was mean! No not really the kids obviously wanted to be doing
something else.
They have not been back. I think $10 per kid for 5 weeks of clay class
is pretty right on.
I have to admit that I thought they would spread the word about the
center-NOT!
I guess the big lesson is
don't give expecting to get anything in return and you will enjoy the
giving a lot more.
But I know you know that too!
Take Care and Carry On!
Kristin
L. P. Skeen on mon 17 apr 06
Kristin,
When you charge so little for a five week class, you undervalue yourself =
and your teacher and your craft, and how are the parents going to see =
any value in it at all? After all, to them it's just ten bucks, big =
whoop. That's not EVEN bringing into consideration the cost of =
materials.
If you think your program has something good to offer the kids, then =
charge like you mean it. When we go to the store and something is =
expensive, we say, "Boy they're mighty proud o' them olives there!" BE =
PROUD OF YOUR PROGRAM. Undercharging does not help anyone, and you =
can't stay in business that way.
Further, if you're in charge of the class (even as assistant), then BE =
IN CHARGE. You're the adult; don't let the children run over you. =
Further still, ask the parents to leave. If you have trouble asking =
parents to leave, remove from the room the chairs they sit in. =20
Children almost always behave more acceptably when the parents are away. =
If they're in the room, then YOU have no authority with the children, =
because they know you're not really the boss of them, not to mention the =
fact that having parents in the room is nerve wracking, because you feel =
awkward about asking their kids to behave.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kristin Yount=20
They have not been back. I think $10 per kid for 5 weeks of clay class
is pretty right on.
I have to admit that I thought they would spread the word about the
center-NOT!
Cindy Gatto on mon 17 apr 06
Kristen,
I agree with Lisa When you charge little that is what people think Why? I
don't know but I know it is true $10 for a class is dirt cheap You said
something about giving scholarships and needing customers. If I am understanding you
the thinking was if you got people in there and they saw the place was good
they would tell others who would come and spend money It doesn't work that
way. Why?, again I do not know it makes sense to me but I know from experience
it takes a good while for people to know you Also as a business you must set
down specific rules and this goes for anyone teaching classes, renting space
starting a co-op Anything You must have very specific rules that are very cut
and dry and they must apply to everyone no matter who, or what Be careful
with getting too friendly with employees and students or even their mothers I am
saying this from my own experiences and mistakes. If you would like to
contact me off list I'd be more than happy to talk to you.Good luck
Cindy Gatto & Mark Petrin
The Mudpit
228 Manhattan Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11206
718-218-9424
_www.mudpitnyc.com_ (http://www.mudpitnyc.com/)
mudpitnyc@aol.com
Earl Brunner on tue 18 apr 06
I'm not sure you are helping the underprivileged much
with this approach either. I work at an elementary
school that is classified as a "full" Title One school;
meaning that so many families have such low income that
they have qualified ALL students at the school as free
recipients of Title One programs. In addition, we have
a program called School Bell that provides clothing and
school supplies to especially needy children, we have a
variety of other programs as well that attempt to meet
the needs of many of these kids, from dental and
glasses programs on down the list. If there is a need
we often try to fill it.
This sometimes, with some people (both children and
parents) fosters a sense of entitlement where they
sometimes place no real value on the goods and services
provided to them, yet they can have an expectation to
receive with little to no effort on their part.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
Behalf Of Craig Clark
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Interesting math
Kristin, $5/child for a five week class is
ridiculously low. I'm not
going to pull any punches here, it is so low that it is
an insult to
those of us in the professional clay community who
attempt to make a
portion of our living by teaching clay. Unless of
course if your program
is an outreach type of program to children of parents
who are poor that
just don't have money to pay. If that is what the
program is about then
I tip my hat to you and the other wonderful folks who
are volunteering
the time and money to support the underprivleged.
Craig Clark on tue 18 apr 06
Kristin, $5/child for a five week class is ridiculously low. I'm not
going to pull any punches here, it is so low that it is an insult to
those of us in the professional clay community who attempt to make a
portion of our living by teaching clay. Unless of course if your program
is an outreach type of program to children of parents who are poor that
just don't have money to pay. If that is what the program is about then
I tip my hat to you and the other wonderful folks who are volunteering
the time and money to support the underprivleged. As has been mentioned,
however, if these are folks who are even approaching the middle class,
then you are doing a disservice to yourself, other professionals in the
clay community, the parents and students as well. This establishes the
default mentality of "clay is cheap" which is all to prevalent. At that
rate the parents aren't even haveing to pay what they would a high
school student to baby sit. This is not good.
As to the parents hanging about. Don't let them do it unless the
class has specifically been set up as a parent/child sort of activity.
If this is the case the parents will need to pay for their tuition as
well, full price!
As LP mentioned, most children will act differently when their
parent is around. This is not limited to the clay experience. Many years
ago, when I was training for my WSI (Water Safety Istructor)
Certification at the local Ymca, the old trainer told us that it is a
really good idea to discourage parents from being around during swim
lesson instruction time. Without the parent about the authority figure
becomes the instructor which is the way it needs to be. I followed the
advice closely. It may be old school now, really havn't kept up with
things, but it worked well at the time.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
L. P. Skeen wrote:
>Kristin,
>
>When you charge so little for a five week class, you undervalue yourself and your teacher and your craft, and how are the parents going to see any value in it at all? After all, to them it's just ten bucks, big whoop. That's not EVEN bringing into consideration the cost of materials.
>
>If you think your program has something good to offer the kids, then charge like you mean it. When we go to the store and something is expensive, we say, "Boy they're mighty proud o' them olives there!" BE PROUD OF YOUR PROGRAM. Undercharging does not help anyone, and you can't stay in business that way.
>
>Further, if you're in charge of the class (even as assistant), then BE IN CHARGE. You're the adult; don't let the children run over you. Further still, ask the parents to leave. If you have trouble asking parents to leave, remove from the room the chairs they sit in.
>
>Children almost always behave more acceptably when the parents are away. If they're in the room, then YOU have no authority with the children, because they know you're not really the boss of them, not to mention the fact that having parents in the room is nerve wracking, because you feel awkward about asking their kids to behave.
>
>----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristin Yount
> They have not been back. I think $10 per kid for 5 weeks of clay class
> is pretty right on.
> I have to admit that I thought they would spread the word about the
> center-NOT!
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Craig Clark on wed 19 apr 06
I just let out a sigh and find that I am must agree with this
assessment of a sense of entitilment that develops in some folks. This
is unfortunate at best. Especially when the intent is to expand their
world at the edges, or to provide base line resources such as education,
for those that are most in need. As you know, this type of behaviour is
certainly not limited to the poorest among us as is continually
illustrated by the offspring of the "leisure class" and those who don't
understand and/or have never experienced the truth of physical labor.
Perhaps a solution in the case of the folks who are getting
clothing, instruction, etc., is a work/learn type of situation. I really
don't know. I'm also continually greatful to those who choose to lend
the helping hand regardless of immediate consequences, both real and not
so real. Like my momma used to say, ".....if you can only help one
person at a time it makes a difference."
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
Earl Brunner wrote:
>I'm not sure you are helping the underprivileged much
>with this approach either. I work at an elementary
>school that is classified as a "full" Title One school;
>meaning that so many families have such low income that
>they have qualified ALL students at the school as free
>recipients of Title One programs. In addition, we have
>a program called School Bell that provides clothing and
>school supplies to especially needy children, we have a
>variety of other programs as well that attempt to meet
>the needs of many of these kids, from dental and
>glasses programs on down the list. If there is a need
>we often try to fill it.
>
>This sometimes, with some people (both children and
>parents) fosters a sense of entitlement where they
>sometimes place no real value on the goods and services
>provided to them, yet they can have an expectation to
>receive with little to no effort on their part.
>
>
>Earl Brunner
>Las Vegas, NV
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Craig Clark
>Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:48 PM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Interesting math
>
> Kristin, $5/child for a five week class is
>ridiculously low. I'm not
>going to pull any punches here, it is so low that it is
>an insult to
>those of us in the professional clay community who
>attempt to make a
>portion of our living by teaching clay. Unless of
>course if your program
>is an outreach type of program to children of parents
>who are poor that
>just don't have money to pay. If that is what the
>program is about then
>I tip my hat to you and the other wonderful folks who
>are volunteering
>the time and money to support the underprivleged.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
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