mel jacobson on tue 25 apr 06
eejing, the teapot city. it truly is a potters paradise, just to walk the
streets and see how one tiny teapot has made a full industry in
a chinese city.
the teapot is classical in design. (see website, clayart page, click below.)
they are all handmade, slab construction with paddle pounding to make
the basic shape. very precise templates are used to create the openings
and spouts. everything is measured precisely. all sorts of calipers,
measuring
tools, and cutters are used. all are traditional. (see website, clayart
page)
vendors stalls line one area of the city, selling all sorts of handmade tools.
cut off pieces of steel pipe are used to make the opening for the
teapot. each is made
the same. total perfection.
the `one of a kind` artists take a full week to complete one teapot. they
usually
have four or five under construction at one time. they are sleek, perfect
and at the same time...timeless. the standard `coleman` cooler is their
storage
area. they buy clay in about 20 lb lumps, and that will last for
weeks. the studio
is just one small room. the tools are laid out like in a doctors operating
room .
everything is about perfection. linda smiled all the time...just made for her.
she took home a load of handmade tools so she can try this system. and, she
will make her own classic eejing teapot soon.
we visited a number of very fine makers...three of them were women, and
very famous. terrific potters, and they had full status in the country. their
work brought down big prices...and they sell everything they can make.
the only concern is that this tradition will die off with the new breed of
cosmopolitan children....looking at the west for `culture`.
one couple we met worked together, yet each had their own design.
they had a nice apartment, a new vw car and were doing very well.
home industry.
the potters all use the same clay produced in the region. it is a dark
iron bearing
clay fired to cone 1-3. no glaze is ever applied. they are bare clay pots.
the design is everything...graze, beauty and utility mixed in one teapot.
they seem the same, but each is new and different. great use of history and
new ideas and designs to make each potter unique. some forms are very
modern in concept, yet each has that historic eejing quality.
the firing is all done in a central location using communal kilns. that in
itself is a small industry of workers that only fire pots. great care is
taken obviously. there may be 75,000 dollars worth of pots in one firing.
serving tea in this system is also very interesting...the pots are soaked in
hot water, tea is added, then water is poured into and over and around
the teapot...a very lovely tray with a drain hose attached is used when
making tea. the slop over water is just drained out the bottom. lots of hot
water, tea, and ceremony is involved. ritual, what a concept.
so. eejing was a very exciting place to visit...po has dozens of wonderful
friends in this city. we were wined and dinned...taken out to dinner over and
over....they are a proud group of potters and the city supports them with
pride and understanding...to be a treasured potter in this city is to
have a world of status.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://my.pclink.com/~melpots3
Bruce Girrell on mon 1 may 06
mel wrote:
> very precise templates are used to create the openings
> and spouts. everything is measured precisely.
> all sorts of calipers, measuring tools, and cutters are used.
> ... each is made the same. total perfection.
Something I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around:
If these pots are essentially identical - and I don't doubt that they are -
then why are they not considered "lifeless" in the same manner that tightly
thrown or turned pots are considered lifeless? Particularly in an area of
the world where gesture is so highly valued, what is it about these pots,
pots that can't be distinguished from one another, that is also valued?
Bruce "what is the sound of a sacred cow being kicked?" Girrell
Malcolm Schosha on mon 1 may 06
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Girrell wrote:
>
> mel wrote:
> > very precise templates are used to create the openings
> > and spouts. everything is measured precisely.
> > all sorts of calipers, measuring tools, and cutters are used.
> > ... each is made the same. total perfection.
>
> Something I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around:
> If these pots are essentially identical - and I don't doubt that
they are -
> then why are they not considered "lifeless" in the same manner that
tightly
> thrown or turned pots are considered lifeless? Particularly in an
area of
> the world where gesture is so highly valued, what is it about these
pots,
> pots that can't be distinguished from one another, that is also
valued?
>
> Bruce "what is the sound of a sacred cow being kicked?" Girrell
>
.............................
Bruce,
I will admit that this is a touchy point with me. I worked hard to
learn to throw tight.
If loose is better, then the looser it is the better it is. Right?
So, with that logic, potters are at their best, and most loose, after
a single week of training. Stupid me to spend years learning to throw
tight, and inferior, to what I was doing at the end of week one! Too
bad I was living in Italy at the time, and those ignorant Italian
potters were not educated enough to explain to me what good pots
REALLY are.
Good thing that we have college educated potters in the USA, who know
how to make a mess, and then give a convincing explanation why their
inability to throw is really a result of their artistic creativity.
Nevertheless, in my of view, it takes time to come up with a good
design, and it takes time to learn how to produce controlled results.
If the work is tight, the difference between one pot and another is
visibly the result of artistic decisions. In a lot of loose work, the
variation is just random, or chance.......so what is it that makes
random variation artistic?
Be well.
Malcolm
Malcolm Schosha on tue 2 may 06
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Lee In Mashiko wrote:
>
> the master, who can throw with precision when he wants to, is
nothing
> like the looseness of the beginner, who does not have the skill to
make
> the clay do what he wants. The master is not prisoner to his
> skill. The technician is easily replaced by the machine,
because the
> machine is better at precision. But machines cannot produce
the
> feeling that the human hand can.
>
.............................
Hi Lee,
Perhaps loose pots do have more feeling. If they do, why does that
make them better?
When I see a beautiful pot, it produces state of happiness in me that
I think is very different than any emotional feeling. But those who
make loose pots do not follow the path of beauty, which is the path
of the Classic Tradition.
I certainly have no objection to those who make loose work following
their own way. But I do object when those ignorant of the Classic
Tradition (and who lack the best training) declare that their way is
the only way, and that the Classic way is inferior. I consider such
people fools.
Be well.
Malcolm
Maurice Weitman on tue 2 may 06
An Instant Malcolm Classic:
Malcolm Schosha said:
>When I see a beautiful pot, it produces state of happiness in me that
>I think is very different than any emotional feeling. But those who
>make loose pots do not follow the path of beauty, which is the path
>of the Classic Tradition.
>
>I certainly have no objection to those who make loose work following
>their own way. But I do object when those ignorant of the Classic
>Tradition (and who lack the best training) declare that their way is
>the only way, and that the Classic way is inferior. I consider such
>people fools.
Others presciently preplied:
"If one does not understand a person,
one tends to regard him as a fool."
-- Carl G. Jung
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
-- Abraham Lincoln
"It is the part of a fool to give advice to others
and not himself to be on his guard."
-- Phaedrus
"If I am fool, it is, at least, a doubting one;
and I envy no one the certainty of his self-approved wisdom."
-- Lord Byron (George Gordon Byron)
"He who seeks to bolster his weak argument by using inappropriately
Capitalized Words is the biggest fool of all."
-- anonymous
"The biggest fool in the world is he who merely
does his work supremely well, without attending to appearance."
-- Michael Korda
Regards,
Maurice, in finally sunny, warm, delicious Fairfax, California
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 2 may 06
Dear Bruce Girrell,=20
You suggest <doubt that they are -
then why are they not considered "lifeless" in the same manner that =
tightly
thrown or turned pots are considered lifeless? >>
The few of this style I have seen are beautifully crafted but quite =
ordinary.=20
Lifeless in this context is a term I do not understand. Inanimate =
objects do not have the attributes of living things. Need I list them?
Best regards,
Ivor
Lee In Mashiko on tue 2 may 06
On 2006/05/02 7:57:14, lee love (togeika@claycraft.org) wrote:
Hi Bruce,
> then why are they not considered "lifeless" in the same manner that
> tightly thrown or turned pots are considered lifeless?
Factory pots are the same everywhere. Their qualities are not
strong in the area of feeling/life. You admire them for their
precision and technical expertise.
> Particularly in an area of
> the world where gesture is so highly valued, what is it about these
pots,
> pots that can't be distinguished from one another, that is also valued?
Maybe you didn't know, but folks in Asia (especially Japan) can
be very precision oriented. There are very "intellectual" pots made
here. What you have is huge variety. I was in the Messe museum
yesterday (my tent at the pottery festival is just outside the museum)
and I was looking at the work for sale in the coffee shop. The coffee
mugs on sale there are very ridged, tight and identical. Not much
feeling or gesture in them.
Tea ceremony is where the appreciation of natural feeling and gesture
is allowed to come into the work. The Korean Yi potters were the
masters of this. Often, the tea pots that try to copy this feeling
miss the mark set by the Yi potters. My favorite Chinese pots, from
the Sung period, I like not for their gesture, but because of the shapes
and lines. They were masters of form.
What Maurice fails to understand is that the feeling and gesture of
the master, who can throw with precision when he wants to, is nothing
like the looseness of the beginner, who does not have the skill to make
the clay do what he wants. The master is not prisoner to his
skill. The technician is easily replaced by the machine, because the
machine is better at precision. But machines cannot produce the
feeling that the human hand can.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/
Malcolm Schosha on wed 3 may 06
Maurice,
Thanks for the interesting quotes. However, if you re-read my
message, you will see that the subject was pottery and potters, not
fools. Particularly, the subject of my message was the disrespect
that many exponents of loose pottery have for the Classic Tradition.
Be well.
Malcolm
.................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Maurice Weitman wrote:
>
> An Instant Malcolm Classic:
>
> Malcolm Schosha said:
> >When I see a beautiful pot, it produces state of happiness in me
that
> >I think is very different than any emotional feeling. But those who
> >make loose pots do not follow the path of beauty, which is the path
> >of the Classic Tradition.
> >
> >I certainly have no objection to those who make loose work
following
> >their own way. But I do object when those ignorant of the Classic
> >Tradition (and who lack the best training) declare that their way
is
> >the only way, and that the Classic way is inferior. I consider such
> >people fools.
>
> Others presciently preplied:
>
> "If one does not understand a person,
> one tends to regard him as a fool."
> -- Carl G. Jung
>
> "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
> -- Abraham Lincoln
>
> "It is the part of a fool to give advice to others
> and not himself to be on his guard."
> -- Phaedrus
>
> "If I am fool, it is, at least, a doubting one;
> and I envy no one the certainty of his self-approved wisdom."
> -- Lord Byron (George Gordon Byron)
>
> "He who seeks to bolster his weak argument by using inappropriately
> Capitalized Words is the biggest fool of all."
> -- anonymous
>
> "The biggest fool in the world is he who merely
> does his work supremely well, without attending to appearance."
> -- Michael Korda
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
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