Kathy Forer on mon 1 may 06
I have a used L&L econokiln K-18.
> The =93K=94 Model kilns were made from about 1965 to
> 1978. They are sectional polygonal kilns very similar to
> the newer =93J=94 Series. The =93K=94 Series can be used to
> Cone 8 (2300=B0F).K
The front panel says it's an L&L EconoKiln K18
4400 Watts
220/110 volts
20 amps
The L&L specs are slightly different. Their Library says the K-18 =20
would have a NEMA 10-50P plug (50 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire). =20=
This one has a NEMA 10-30P plug (30 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire).
-----------
http://www.hotkilns.com/pdf-library.html
VOLTAGE
> K Series kilns are wired to work on a three wire Edison
> system (designated as 220/110). This means that ei-
> ther hot leg to neutral will give you 110 volts. There is a
> separate ground lug on the kiln that must be hooked up
> to a ground (preferably a cold water pipe) with a sepa-
> rate wire. The plug used on the K model kilns is a
> NEMA 10-50P. (Unlike in a NEMA 6-50P plug like
> those used on the newer J Model kilns this neutral wire
> is part of the plug. A 6-50P never uses the third wire as
> a neutral.)
--------------------
Should I change the plug or is this one acceptable? I'm going to add =20
a cut-off switch between the circuit breaker and the receptacle, in =20
my all concrete basement, and will leave it plugged in all the time, =20
but I'd just as soon use a plug than wire directly, mainly as this is =20=
a rental space and I don't want to tax my electrician/friend more =20
than necessary. I won't be using it more than once every month or =20
more. And will then be very vigilant (if that's possible).
Also, what gauge wire is best for a run of eight feet to the cut-off =20
and receptacle? And if I want to replace it one day with a newer, =20
similar small kiln (18" x 18"), could I keep the same wiring.
Thanks!
Kathy
--
Kathy Forer
http://www.kforer.com
Sturm, David Brandon on tue 2 may 06
Kathy,
=20
I have been repairing kilns professionally for 11 years and I have the =
following advice.
=20
1) As far as the wire size to run from the breaker panel, through the =
cutoff, and to the receptacle...
=20
Given your desire for future expansion, I would use #6 copper for the =
wall. It will save you time and cost in the future if you want to =
upgrade to a different kiln (J230 size or smaller). All you would need =
to do is un-hook the "load bearing neutral" wire from the neutral bar, =
and re-hook it up to the ground bar in your breaker-box - then change =
the receptacle to a 6-50 - the breaker to the appropriate size and away =
you go.
=20
I would STRONGLY recommend not changing the power cord configuration. =
Having done a little research into electric kiln design, I have a great =
respect for sticking with the "tried and true", "proven", and more =
importantly TESTED method. Further, it is doubtful that you will get =
the larger cord bundle through the side of the kiln in order to hook it =
up without having to drill that hole larger.
=20
BY THE WAY, the L&L website lists the 50amp cord for a 240v model. =
Yours is a 220/110. It is possible to convert your kiln to a 240v, 1ph =
configuration (effectively making it a J-18), but it can be pricey.
=20
Keeping the configuration of the cord the same requires keeping the =
receptacle configuration the same as well.
=20
The NEMA configuration 10-30P looks something like this:
=20
L
\ / =20
=20
and the 10-50 configuration looks something like this:
=20
|
\ /
=20
The receptacle you purchase will have the configuration molded into the =
plastic on its face (required by electrical code of all manufacturers).
=20
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - do not forget to run the 4th wire. This wire =
is your ground line. Without it, your kiln, house, and self are not =
protected in case of a short. Take it from me, 240v is not something =
you want to have to eat.
=20
2) Breaker and Fuse size. I am going to suggest talking to your =
electrician about this. Coupling the Edison 3-wire configuration and =
the fused shutoff might change your code requirements based on your =
locality. Since I am not an electrician in your area, I do not know =
what your local codes are. =20
=20
WHATEVER YOU DO...DO NOT LET AN ELECTRICIAN CHANGE THE CONFIGURATION OF =
YOUR KILN!!!! Electricians are experts in their field, they are NOT =
electrical engineers, nor are they experts in kiln operation, design =
theory, or maintenance. Their expertise begins at the meter, and ends =
at the wall receptacle.
=20
=20
3) Lastly, since this is a rental space that you are going to operate =
the kiln in, you are required to let your landlord know that you want to =
hook up a kiln, and they have the right to say no, require you to pay a =
deposit, or carry a larger valued renter's insurance policy. Make sure =
that you tell your landlord about the kiln, and get his/her agreement in =
writing.
=20
Hope this helps.
=20
David Sturm
Repair Technician
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
kilndoc@ku.edu
=20
=20
________________________________
From: Kathy Forer [mailto:kef@KFORER.COM]
Sent: Mon 5/1/2006 5:00 PM
To: CLAYART@LSitV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: K-series Econokiln plug
I have a used L&L econokiln K-18.
> The "K" Model kilns were made from about 1965 to
> 1978. They are sectional polygonal kilns very similar to
> the newer "J" Series. The "K" Series can be used to
> Cone 8 (2300=B0F).K
The front panel says it's an L&L EconoKiln K18
4400 Watts
220/110 volts
20 amps
The L&L specs are slightly different. Their Library says the K-18 would=20
have a NEMA 10-50P plug (50 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire). This=20
one has a NEMA 10-30P plug (30 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire).
-----------
http://www.hotkilns.com/pdf-library.html
VOLTAGE
> K Series kilns are wired to work on a three wire Edison
> system (designated as 220/110). This means that ei-
> ther hot leg to neutral will give you 110 volts. There is a
> separate ground lug on the kiln that must be hooked up
> to a ground (preferably a cold water pipe) with a sepa-
> rate wire. The plug used on the K model kilns is a
> NEMA 10-50P. (Unlike in a NEMA 6-50P plug like
> those used on the newer J Model kilns this neutral wire
> is part of the plug. A 6-50P never uses the third wire as
> a neutral.)
--------------------
Should I change the plug or is this one acceptable? I'm going to add a=20
cut-off switch between the circuit breaker and the receptacle, in my=20
all concrete basement, and will leave it plugged in all the time, but=20
I'd just as soon use a plug than wire directly, mainly as this is a=20
rental space and I don't want to tax my electrician/friend more than=20
necessary. I won't be using it more than once every month or more. And=20
will then be very vigilant (if that's possible).
Also, what gauge wire is best for a run of eight feet to the cut-off=20
and receptacle? And if I want to replace it one day with a newer,=20
similar small kiln (18" x 18"), could I keep the same wiring.
Thanks!
Kathy
--
Kathy Forer
http://www.kforer.com
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at=20
melpots@pclink.com.
Kathy Forer on sat 6 may 06
David,
Thank you, kilndoc, for your very clear and helpful response to all
my questions. I know what to do now.
I thought perhaps someone had changed the plug on the kiln and I
ought to change it "back" but you point out that the kiln I described
is a 220 not a 240 as in the pdf, so I was obviously looking at
different specs. Sometimes things seem so literal it's hard to
remember there's a difference between a 0 and an O. Though 220 is
pretty different from 240.
We might have missed the fourth wire. Thank you x2.
Kathy
On May 2, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Sturm, David Brandon wrote:
> I have been repairing kilns professionally for 11 years and I have
> the following advice.
>
> 1) As far as the wire size to run from the breaker panel, through
> the cutoff, and to the receptacle...
> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - do not forget to run the 4th wire. This
> wire is your ground line. Without it, your kiln, house, and self
> are not protected in case of a short. Take it from me, 240v is not
> something you want to have to eat.
> 2) Breaker and Fuse size.
> 3) Lastly, since this is a rental space
> Hope this helps.
>
> David Sturm
> Repair Technician
> Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
> kilndoc@ku.edu
Kathy Forer on sat 8 jul 06
On May 2, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Sturm, David Brandon wrote:
> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - do not forget to run the 4th wire. This
> wire is your ground line. Without it, your kiln, house, and self
> are not protected in case of a short. Take it from me, 240v is not
> something you want to have to eat.
It's been a while and lots of interference but it's finally nearly done.
Basic electricity stuff is beginning to make sense. We wired the
switch and receptacle today, all grounded circuit with neutral
attached. I understand now how the three prong plug carries 110 on
each prong with the neutral as load bearing, and together they make
220 volts, hence a "three wire Edison system." And that the third
prong is not a ground so the kiln needs to be grounded separately.
But I cannot find the "separate ground lug on the kiln" that is
supposed to be there! The kiln is two sections and then a top and
bottom, does that mean that all four parts of the kiln case would
need to be wired to a ground running to a cold-water pipe? Or is it
just the two-piece power box that needs to be grounded?
Does anyone have an old manual for the L&L EconoKilnK18? I've
downloaded the k-old-instruct.pdf from hotkilns.com but it's
supplemental only and the newer J-series is different enough that
it's confusing for a kiln newbie like me.
Thank you!
Kathy
> The front panel says it's an L&L EconoKiln K18
> 4400 Watts
> 220/110 volts
> 20 amps
>
> Kiln has NEMA 10-30P plug (30 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire),
> not 10-50P as in 5500 watt model described in specs below.
> -----------
> http://www.hotkilns.com/pdf-library.html
> VOLTAGE
>
>> K Series kilns are wired to work on a three wire Edison
>> system (designated as 220/110). This means that ei-
>> ther hot leg to neutral will give you 110 volts. There is a
>> separate ground lug on the kiln that must be hooked up
>> to a ground (preferably a cold water pipe) with a sepa-
>> rate wire. The plug used on the K model kilns is a
>> NEMA 10-50P. (Unlike in a NEMA 6-50P plug like
>> those used on the newer J Model kilns this neutral wire
>> is part of the plug. A 6-50P never uses the third wire as
>> a neutral.)
>>
> --------------------
--
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
Cynthia Bracker Sturm on sun 9 jul 06
The ground lug from the power cord attaches to the steel case that goes
around the kiln. Both the section boxes need to be wired together,
preferably, with the upper box attached to the case on the upper
section and the lower box attached to the ground wire from the power
cord. Essentially, what happens in the case of a ground fault or
ground short is that electricity energizes the steel case of the kiln
and needs a way to get out through the ground line. Since the upper
and lower sections are separate, this wire needs to be run to ground
the entire unit.
If you need a rudimentary drawing, please e-mail me off list:
tech@brackers.com
David Sturm (as dictated to Cindy Bracker Sturm)
On Jul 8, 2006, at 8:57 PM, Kathy Forer wrote:
> On May 2, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Sturm, David Brandon wrote:
>
>> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - do not forget to run the 4th wire. This
>> wire is your ground line. Without it, your kiln, house, and self
>> are not protected in case of a short. Take it from me, 240v is not
>> something you want to have to eat.
>
> It's been a while and lots of interference but it's finally nearly
> done.
>
> Basic electricity stuff is beginning to make sense. We wired the
> switch and receptacle today, all grounded circuit with neutral
> attached. I understand now how the three prong plug carries 110 on
> each prong with the neutral as load bearing, and together they make
> 220 volts, hence a "three wire Edison system." And that the third
> prong is not a ground so the kiln needs to be grounded separately.
>
> But I cannot find the "separate ground lug on the kiln" that is
> supposed to be there! The kiln is two sections and then a top and
> bottom, does that mean that all four parts of the kiln case would
> need to be wired to a ground running to a cold-water pipe? Or is it
> just the two-piece power box that needs to be grounded?
>
> Does anyone have an old manual for the L&L EconoKilnK18? I've
> downloaded the k-old-instruct.pdf from hotkilns.com but it's
> supplemental only and the newer J-series is different enough that
> it's confusing for a kiln newbie like me.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Kathy
>
>
>> The front panel says it's an L&L EconoKiln K18
>> 4400 Watts
>> 220/110 volts
>> 20 amps
>>
>> Kiln has NEMA 10-30P plug (30 amp. 125/250 volt, 3-Pole, 3-Wire),
>> not 10-50P as in 5500 watt model described in specs below.
>> -----------
>> http://www.hotkilns.com/pdf-library.html
>> VOLTAGE
>>
>>> K Series kilns are wired to work on a three wire Edison
>>> system (designated as 220/110). This means that ei-
>>> ther hot leg to neutral will give you 110 volts. There is a
>>> separate ground lug on the kiln that must be hooked up
>>> to a ground (preferably a cold water pipe) with a sepa-
>>> rate wire. The plug used on the K model kilns is a
>>> NEMA 10-50P. (Unlike in a NEMA 6-50P plug like
>>> those used on the newer J Model kilns this neutral wire
>>> is part of the plug. A 6-50P never uses the third wire as
>>> a neutral.)
>>>
>> --------------------
>
> --
> Kathy Forer
> www.foreverink.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 9 jul 06
> ...But I cannot find the "separate ground lug on the kiln" that is
> supposed to be there! The kiln is two sections and then a top and
> bottom, does that mean that all four parts of the kiln case would
> need to be wired to a ground running to a cold-water pipe? Or is it
> just the two-piece power box that needs to be grounded?
> Kathy
Would you consider hiring an electrician?
I know it's nice to save money, and there's the satisfaction of doing
things yourself, but this is something that could possibly burn down
your house! This is something that I always budget for, and I always
sleep better at night knowing that I'm not putting anyone or my
business and equipment in danger.
Lynn
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
548 Court St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-858-6920
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Kathy Forer on mon 10 jul 06
On Jul 9, 2006, at 5:21 PM, Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery wrote:
> Would you consider hiring an electrician?
> I know it's nice to save money, and there's the satisfaction of doing
> things yourself, but this is something that could possibly burn down
> your house! This is something that I always budget for, and I always
> sleep better at night knowing that I'm not putting anyone or my
> business and equipment in danger.
Well, I called two different electricians. One, who had put in the
upgraded underground service for the county and had a crew guy whose
mother had had kilns, promised at least three times to show up and
never did. The other, a friend of my A/C contractor, didn't show once
and then never returned my two follow up calls. Either says little
for my people skills or a lot about the community that I live in
where a $200-400 job is apparently scoffed at. I believe the latter,
though there are exceptions.
But I was lucky that a photographer/electrical engineer, colleague
and friend, who had been a potter in another life and had wired his
entire house and my big old 4-wire Paragon kiln a few years ago,
offered again to help. We just couldn't figure out the grounding
instructions as they were and I said I'd take care of it as it seems
pretty straightforward -- run wire from grounding lug to cold water
pipe, wrap or clamp on. The kiln is from the 70s and didn't come with
any diagrams and though I had already cleaned and checked the wiring
in the control box I didn't want to unscrew it again until I knew more.
While I was buying the stuff at the Electric store, I told of my
plight and the nice man being helped at the other counter gave me a
handful of his cards and said he's willing to do small jobs that are
under $500.
At this point the work is done and it looks really nice and I
understand what goes where and sort of why. But the particular
grounding details are still a mystery.
I'm trying to get past being a huge electricity phobic -- bobby pin
in light switch when I was five (those were the days!) and then my
grandmother regaling me with tales of boy fried crispy black on third
rail, (I later write a short story about it claiming I'd imagined I
was Thomasina Edison trying to harness lightning) -- and getting a
little better. A friend flips the switch on her kiln to help heat her
studio. Eek, I'm still traumatized by the idea of being so casual
about it. I approach the switches with something like reverence, but
I'm rallying. Learning about it helps immeasurably though I don't
particularly like thinking about it and cringe even now.
In addition to David Sturm and Arnold Howard, Paragon's
IM99_Whats_A_Watt.pdf What's a Watt, Understanding Basic Electricity
for the Paragon Kiln Maintenance Seminar was very instructive. It
compares electricity to water in a way that helps Ohms, Watts, Amps
and Volts make sense.
My teacher, born in the nineteenth century, spoke of all the
innovations he'd witnessed and how specifically electrical lights and
more generally electricity itself was the most important (sine qua
non). He claimed he could feel and hear it -- and not just the
appliances! -- as it charged through the walls. But then he had
atavistic fish gills, little holes in front of his huge nineteenth
century ears!
I'll get the wiring inspected though, if only informally. Sound
notion, I hear you. Thanks!
Kathy
--
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
Arnold Howard on mon 10 jul 06
From: "Kathy Forer"
> But I cannot find the "separate ground lug on the kiln"
> that is
> supposed to be there! The kiln is two sections and then a
> top and
> bottom, does that mean that all four parts of the kiln
> case would
> need to be wired to a ground running to a cold-water pipe?
> Or is it
> just the two-piece power box that needs to be grounded?
If you attach the grounding wire to the switch box, any
metal part that touches that switch box will also be
grounded. A cold water copper pipe is a good ground.
I am glad you have a healthy respect for electricity and are
having a qualified person install the electric circuit. The
wiring itself is simple; nevertheless, it is easy to make a
mistake.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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