Susan P on tue 16 may 06
Was looking back through the archives to see if I could answer my own
questions - I learned a few things but now I have even more.
1) Does the Geil have a HVLP step-down deal?
2) Am I right to think that this HVLP regulator on the gun is what one need=
s
with a standard, construction-type air compressor?
3) How to tell if a paint gun might work? My husband has a good quality
paint sprayer, but I get the impression that they spray with more pressure
and deliver a smaller quantity - does this mean it won't work? Or would it
work but ruin his spray gun?
4) It is for the same project - the highly carved receptacle for my mother'=
s
ashes. I am working on the steps to get my "reliquary sphere" done and most
feel that spaying is the way to go. I've never done it. Here is the same
link to the same picture.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32686158@N00/
Thanks.
Susan near Seattle
Vince Pitelka on wed 17 may 06
Susan near Seattle wrote:
"Was looking back through the archives to see if I could answer my own
questions - I learned a few things but now I have even more.
1) Does the Geil have a HVLP step-down deal?
2) Am I right to think that this HVLP regulator on the gun is what one needs
with a standard, construction-type air compressor?
3) How to tell if a paint gun might work? My husband has a good quality
paint sprayer, but I get the impression that they spray with more pressure
and deliver a smaller quantity - does this mean it won't work? Or would it
work but ruin his spray gun?
Susan -
I would never buy the Geil gun no matter how well it works, because they are
advertising it as a HVLP gun and it is not one. It has no step-down
regulator on the input port, and they recommend using it at 30 to 50 PSI,
and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun. The whole idea of a HVLP
gun is that it works on much lower pressure (generally 6 to 10 PSI) and has
a much higher transfer rate, which means that there is far less overspray
and thus far less waste. Geil makes these super-quality kilns and everyone
seems happy with the kilns, so I am baffled as to why they would risk their
reputation and credibility by misrepresenting this gun with false
advertising.
There is a good chance that your husband's spraygun will work for spraying
glazes. You just have to try it. That won't hurt it, so there is nothing
lost. But if it is a standard spray gun, the transfer rate is lower, and
there will be lots of overspray. Experiment with pressures from 30 to 50
PSI. Experiment with adjusting the spray pattern and the delivery needle.
Your husband will know how to do that. Be sure to use a proper spray booth
or else spray outdoors with your respirator on.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Randall Moody on thu 18 may 06
Vince,
I may be speaking out of turn here but it is my understanding that most HVL=
P
guns deal with CFM as opposed to PSI. Many of the HVLP guns I have looked a=
t
have upwards of 50 psi as the maximum pressure. They usually are listed as
something like this:
Average air consumption: 9.5 CFM @ 50 PSI
Granted that if your cup top is listed as 10 psi you will be cleaning your
ceiling for a while.
On 5/17/06, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> Susan near Seattle wrote:
> "Was looking back through the archives to see if I could answer my own
> questions - I learned a few things but now I have even more.
> 1) Does the Geil have a HVLP step-down deal?
> 2) Am I right to think that this HVLP regulator on the gun is what one
> needs
> with a standard, construction-type air compressor?
> 3) How to tell if a paint gun might work? My husband has a good quality
> paint sprayer, but I get the impression that they spray with more pressur=
e
> and deliver a smaller quantity - does this mean it won't work? Or would i=
t
> work but ruin his spray gun?
>
> Susan -
> I would never buy the Geil gun no matter how well it works, because they
> are
> advertising it as a HVLP gun and it is not one. It has no step-down
> regulator on the input port, and they recommend using it at 30 to 50 PSI,
> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun. The whole idea of a HVL=
P
> gun is that it works on much lower pressure (generally 6 to 10 PSI) and
> has
> a much higher transfer rate, which means that there is far less overspray
> and thus far less waste. Geil makes these super-quality kilns and
> everyone
> seems happy with the kilns, so I am baffled as to why they would risk
> their
> reputation and credibility by misrepresenting this gun with false
> advertising.
>
> There is a good chance that your husband's spraygun will work for sprayin=
g
> glazes. You just have to try it. That won't hurt it, so there is nothin=
g
> lost. But if it is a standard spray gun, the transfer rate is lower, and
> there will be lots of overspray. Experiment with pressures from 30 to 50
> PSI. Experiment with adjusting the spray pattern and the delivery needle=
.
> Your husband will know how to do that. Be sure to use a proper spray
> booth
> or else spray outdoors with your respirator on.
> Good luck -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Cindy Bracker on fri 19 may 06
It is very concerning when a well-respected, knowledgeable person
makes assertions and claims about a product without having all the
facts or without having even used the product.
Assertion:
> "It has no step-down regulator on the input port, and they
> recommend using it at 30 to 50 PSI,
> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun.
Fact: The Geil Spray Gun IS an HVLP gun / Actual Definition of
requirement to be an HVLP gun as follows:
Source 1:
"Basically, an HVLP paint spray gun (paint sprayer) is a spray device
that atomizes paint at a pressure of 10 psig or less, as measured at
the cap of the gun. You are required to be able to demonstrate that
you do not exceed the 10 psig pressure at the cap (not at the handle,
where the pressure might be as high as 50 psig)." Quoted from http://
www.paintcenter.org/rj/aug05o.cfm (in reference to EPA and State
Regulations on HVLP Paint Spray Guns (sprayers))
Source 2:
"As the name suggests, this technology uses a high-volume of air at
low pressures (i.e., 0.1 to 10 psi) to atomize paint. This technology
reduces overspray and improves transfer efficiency. HVLP guns have
nozzles with larger diameter openings than LVHP guns for atomizing
air. They can be bleeder (i.e., controls only the fluid flow to the
gun) or non-bleeder (i.e., controls air flow and fluid flow to the
gun by use of a trigger) types, and may require airflows of 10 to 30
cubic feet per minute. Air can be supplied to the sprayer by turbine
air blowers or conventional shop compressors (KSBEAP, 13). Typical
transfer efficiencies with HVLP systems are 65 to 75%. Figure 5 shows
a typical configuration for a HVLP system." Quoted from http://
www.wmrc.uiuc.edu/main_sections/info_services/library_docs/manuals/
coatings/appltech.htm
(note: This website has a LOT of good information on sprayers)
The Geil Spray Gun is a bleeder style HVLP Gravity-Fed Spray Gun.
I'd also like to add that another overlooked feature really makes
this sprayer desireable is the Nozzle that is "Designed exclusively
for Ceramic Glazes & Light to Medium Viscosity Slip"
Bracker's got its first shipment of these in on October 10th of last
year. Since then, we have sold 84 of them with not one complaint
about its function. In fact, many of the ones we have sold are due
to happy users passing on the accolades about how well it works.
Norman Aufrichtig's account is a good example of the kinds of things
I have heard from customers who have purchased this gun. If you'd
like another personal review, I can also speak from experience as I
have used it, and I wholeheartedly concur with everything Norman
said. This thing works like a dream!
Finally, Susan: If you are considering getting a spray gun. I would
advise looking no further than the Geil Gun. You won't be sorry!
Cindy
Cindy Bracker Sturm
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
888-822-1982
http://www.brackers.com
On May 17, 2006, at 8:18 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Susan -
> I would never buy the Geil gun no matter how well it works, because
> they are
> advertising it as a HVLP gun and it is not one. It has no step-down
> regulator on the input port, and they recommend using it at 30 to
> 50 PSI,
> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun. The whole idea of
> a HVLP
> gun is that it works on much lower pressure (generally 6 to 10 PSI)
> and has
> a much higher transfer rate, which means that there is far less
> overspray
> and thus far less waste. Geil makes these super-quality kilns and
> everyone
> seems happy with the kilns, so I am baffled as to why they would
> risk their
> reputation and credibility by misrepresenting this gun with false
> advertising.
>
> There is a good chance that your husband's spraygun will work for
> spraying
> glazes. You just have to try it. That won't hurt it, so there is
> nothing
> lost. But if it is a standard spray gun, the transfer rate is
> lower, and
> there will be lots of overspray. Experiment with pressures from 30
> to 50
> PSI. Experiment with adjusting the spray pattern and the delivery
> needle.
> Your husband will know how to do that. Be sure to use a proper
> spray booth
> or else spray outdoors with your respirator on.
> Good luck -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Barbara Lewis on fri 19 may 06
Cindy: The only complaint that I have about the gun, and I need to contact
Geil because I'm sure that they'll make good on the gun, is that the plastic
container split in two areas. You know the nut that's in the end of the
plastic glaze receptable that enables you to screw it onto the gun, the
plastic container split along two corners of the nut. Have you had any such
complaints? I used the gun one time and the second time I went to use it
the glaze was pouring out. That's when I found the problem.
However, the spray quality is wonderful and I hope Geil will replace the
plastic receptacle. Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Bracker"
To:
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Vince - did you buy a Geil spray gun? What to get all?
> It is very concerning when a well-respected, knowledgeable person
> makes assertions and claims about a product without having all the
> facts or without having even used the product.
> Assertion:
>> "It has no step-down regulator on the input port, and they
>> recommend using it at 30 to 50 PSI,
>> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun.
>
> Fact: The Geil Spray Gun IS an HVLP gun / Actual Definition of
> requirement to be an HVLP gun as follows:
>
> Source 1:
> "Basically, an HVLP paint spray gun (paint sprayer) is a spray device
> that atomizes paint at a pressure of 10 psig or less, as measured at
> the cap of the gun. You are required to be able to demonstrate that
> you do not exceed the 10 psig pressure at the cap (not at the handle,
> where the pressure might be as high as 50 psig)." Quoted from http://
> www.paintcenter.org/rj/aug05o.cfm (in reference to EPA and State
> Regulations on HVLP Paint Spray Guns (sprayers))
> Source 2:
> "As the name suggests, this technology uses a high-volume of air at
> low pressures (i.e., 0.1 to 10 psi) to atomize paint. This technology
> reduces overspray and improves transfer efficiency. HVLP guns have
> nozzles with larger diameter openings than LVHP guns for atomizing
> air. They can be bleeder (i.e., controls only the fluid flow to the
> gun) or non-bleeder (i.e., controls air flow and fluid flow to the
> gun by use of a trigger) types, and may require airflows of 10 to 30
> cubic feet per minute. Air can be supplied to the sprayer by turbine
> air blowers or conventional shop compressors (KSBEAP, 13). Typical
> transfer efficiencies with HVLP systems are 65 to 75%. Figure 5 shows
> a typical configuration for a HVLP system." Quoted from http://
> www.wmrc.uiuc.edu/main_sections/info_services/library_docs/manuals/
> coatings/appltech.htm
> (note: This website has a LOT of good information on sprayers)
>
> The Geil Spray Gun is a bleeder style HVLP Gravity-Fed Spray Gun.
> I'd also like to add that another overlooked feature really makes
> this sprayer desireable is the Nozzle that is "Designed exclusively
> for Ceramic Glazes & Light to Medium Viscosity Slip"
>
> Bracker's got its first shipment of these in on October 10th of last
> year. Since then, we have sold 84 of them with not one complaint
> about its function. In fact, many of the ones we have sold are due
> to happy users passing on the accolades about how well it works.
>
> Norman Aufrichtig's account is a good example of the kinds of things
> I have heard from customers who have purchased this gun. If you'd
> like another personal review, I can also speak from experience as I
> have used it, and I wholeheartedly concur with everything Norman
> said. This thing works like a dream!
>
> Finally, Susan: If you are considering getting a spray gun. I would
> advise looking no further than the Geil Gun. You won't be sorry!
> Cindy
>
>
>
> Cindy Bracker Sturm
> Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
> 888-822-1982
> http://www.brackers.com
>
>
> On May 17, 2006, at 8:18 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> Susan -
>> I would never buy the Geil gun no matter how well it works, because
>> they are
>> advertising it as a HVLP gun and it is not one. It has no step-down
>> regulator on the input port, and they recommend using it at 30 to
>> 50 PSI,
>> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun. The whole idea of
>> a HVLP
>> gun is that it works on much lower pressure (generally 6 to 10 PSI)
>> and has
>> a much higher transfer rate, which means that there is far less
>> overspray
>> and thus far less waste. Geil makes these super-quality kilns and
>> everyone
>> seems happy with the kilns, so I am baffled as to why they would
>> risk their
>> reputation and credibility by misrepresenting this gun with false
>> advertising.
>>
>> There is a good chance that your husband's spraygun will work for
>> spraying
>> glazes. You just have to try it. That won't hurt it, so there is
>> nothing
>> lost. But if it is a standard spray gun, the transfer rate is
>> lower, and
>> there will be lots of overspray. Experiment with pressures from 30
>> to 50
>> PSI. Experiment with adjusting the spray pattern and the delivery
>> needle.
>> Your husband will know how to do that. Be sure to use a proper
>> spray booth
>> or else spray outdoors with your respirator on.
>> Good luck -
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
>> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> ________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 21 may 06
Cindy Bracker wrote:
> It is very concerning when a well-respected, knowledgeable person
> makes assertions and claims about a product without having all the
> facts or without having even used the product.
> Assertion:
>> "It has no step-down regulator on the input port, and they
>> recommend using it at 30 to 50 PSI,
>> and therefore, by definition, is not a HVLP gun.
Cindy -
Jeese, I really do not like to be the curmudgeon, but why is it that all =
the
high-end professional quality HVLP guns have a pressure regulator on the
input, where the line pressure is knocked down to 10 PSI or less? The te=
ch
info online seems to indicate that the true turbine-driven HVLP guns are
always the most efficient in terms of transfer rate, but that a HVLP
conversion gun (made to run off a conventional compressor) is a good
compromise, and will still deliver a much higher transfer rate than a
conventional high-pressure LVHP gun. Where is the test info showing a mu=
ch
higher transfer rate (the amount of glaze that actually ends up on the
object being sprayed) in the Geil gun, as compared to a conventional
high-pressure LVHP gun? Have they had the gun properly tested? I know a
guy in Massachusetts who makes his living testing spray pattern and deliv=
ery
volume on all sorts of spray nozzles, and I expect that he'd be happy to =
do
the testing.
Cindy, I accept the claims of all your satisfied customers, but has anyon=
e
really tested this gun to see what the transfer rate is? As I said in an
earlier message, at the Craft Center we have several full-size Paasche LV=
HP
guns that produce wonderful results, but we know damn well that we are
loosing a significant fraction of glaze to overspray. I'd like to find a
good solution, and I'd gladly purchase the Geil gun if they can provide t=
he
test results showing that it performs as an HVLP unit. There's no point =
in
buying a gun that claims to be HVLP unless you know for certain that it i=
s
giving a higher transfer rate.
As mentioned in an earlier message, one of my students bought the Geil
gun. I took it apart to examine it. As near as I can tell, the only
thing different from a conventional LVHP high-pressure gun is the
modifications in the spray cap. The valve in the handle controls volume,
not pressure. The gun works fine, but no better than the big Paasche gun=
s
we have. The Geil unit costs less, but that's beside the point. It's
suppose to be a HVLP gun, so let's see the test results showing that it
functions as one.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
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