Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on mon 22 may 06
The problem is not the temperature, it's the reduction. Most stains
will not work in reduction. Talk to the supplier again and tell them
that you are reducing-- there may be stains that will work in
reduction. When you say "stoneware", that could be lots of
things--including ^6 oxidation, which can use any stain out there. You
can also look at the make-up of the stains and avoid those that contain
materials that will not successfully reduce (such as vanadium).
Lynn
On May 22, 2006, at 5:26 PM, Sam Kelly wrote:
> Hi to all. I have been testing colored crayons and water colores that I
> have made myself to put on my pots. Tests at earthernware work fine and
> are finished.
> Problem is half of these 11 colors burn out at cone 9(reduction) or are
> that pale they can hardly be seen. I have asked when buying my stain
> will
> it go to stoneware, some retailers say yes, others "i don't know, there
> supposed to".
> So I live in Australia and don't mind buying overseas if it is
> necessary.
> Can anybody give me a maker/company that you can garentee from your own
> experience that there stains will go to cone 9-10(black, red and blue
> are
> no problem).
> Thanks in advance,
> Sam
>
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Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
548 Court St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-858-6920
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Marilu Tejero on mon 22 may 06
G'day Sam,
have you tried Walkers in Melbourne?
Marilu
Sam Kelly escribió:
Hi to all. I have been testing colored crayons and water colores that I
have made myself to put on my pots. Tests at earthernware work fine and
are finished.
Problem is half of these 11 colors burn out at cone 9(reduction) or are
that pale they can hardly be seen. I have asked when buying my stain will
it go to stoneware, some retailers say yes, others "i don't know, there
supposed to".
So I live in Australia and don't mind buying overseas if it is necessary.
Can anybody give me a maker/company that you can garentee from your own
experience that there stains will go to cone 9-10(black, red and blue are
no problem).
Thanks in advance,
Sam
______________________________________________________________________________
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Snail Scott on mon 22 may 06
At 05:26 PM 5/22/2006 -0400, Sam K wrote:
>...Problem is half of these 11 colors burn out at cone 9(reduction) or are
>that pale they can hardly be seen. I have asked when buying my stain will
>it go to stoneware, some retailers say yes, others "i don't know, there
>supposed to"...
Three factors at work here, and likely your suppliers
are not ignorant of their merchandise. They just
can't answer your question, because:
The first factor is semantic. When you say 'stoneware',
that can mean anything from around ^3 or ^4, to above
^12. Lots of things will work at ^5 that won't at ^9,
so asking if it can handle 'stoneware temperatures'
is like asking if a motor scooter can do 'road speeds',
then wanting it to go 85 mph.
The second factor is atmospheric. Many stains can
handle higher temperatures in a neutral ('oxidation')
atmosphere, but not in reduction. How important is
your firing atmosphere, and would you change it if
it could improve your colors? It probably will.
The third factor is synergistic. Some stains are just
not compatible with some glaze materials. The color
can wash out or change markedly depending on the
glaze formulation. If you are glazing over these
stains, test them with a range of different glazes.
The stain manufacturer may have a listing of which
combinations to avoid.
Some colors are very tough to achieve at high
temperatures. It's one of the reasons for the
popularity of lower-fired work: range of color.
The new encapsulated cadmium stains do seem to make
high-fire reds and oranges a true possibility now,
but these are high-tech materials and they cost.
Regular red or orange stains can't be expected to
equal the same results. How badly do you want such
colors?
Can you modify your working methods (firing
temperature, atmosphere, and glaze formulas) to
improve the results that are possible for these
particular materials? Or are you asking your
selected stains to do things they just won't do?
You may not get everything you want, colorwise,
but maybe you can get closer with a few of them.
Before seeking 'better' stains elsewhere, try some
changes to improve what you've got. They're likely
to be as good as anything you could get elsewhere,
and even the most perfect stain still needs the
right conditions to show its best color.
-Snail
Sam Kelly on mon 22 may 06
Hi to all. I have been testing colored crayons and water colores that I
have made myself to put on my pots. Tests at earthernware work fine and
are finished.
Problem is half of these 11 colors burn out at cone 9(reduction) or are
that pale they can hardly be seen. I have asked when buying my stain will
it go to stoneware, some retailers say yes, others "i don't know, there
supposed to".
So I live in Australia and don't mind buying overseas if it is necessary.
Can anybody give me a maker/company that you can garentee from your own
experience that there stains will go to cone 9-10(black, red and blue are
no problem).
Thanks in advance,
Sam
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 23 may 06
Dear Sam Kelly=20
I think Walkers in Melbourne still carry Blythe colours.
You will find that most of Blythe series 13 Undergalze colours are =
stable to 1300 deg C with some going up to 1400 deg C. Some will not =
with stand reduction. But you can get a full spectrum of hues.
Walkers also carry Mason Stains. Their Pr. Yellow is pretty good but =
will not stand reduction.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Des & Jan Howard on tue 23 may 06
Sam
Contact Walker's in Sydney or Melbourne & ask about
their own range of colours.
These lines come in trial packs. Test them out using the firing cycle of
your choice.
Nearly all of them are colour fast to 1300C, & most are stable under
reduction firing.
Get a catalogue from Walker's & go through the list of stains with the
staff, Melbourne is particularly helpful,
I have yet to hear them say "I don't know!"
We have been adding the below stains to white stoneware casting slip &
spraying over our
white stoneware & grey stoneware bodies at leatherhard state. Walker's
will, if asked,
suggest concentrations of stain, but, BUT, you will have to test, test,
test to get the flavour you want.
FW5307 Deep sky blue
FW5806 Bright red (Cd, Zr)
FW5808 Orange
FW5807 Deep red
FW5827 Fire engine red
FW5202 Chrome green
FW5400 Bright yellow
All of these have been working at our usual Cone11 reduction cycle, the
bright yellow is a tad pale though.
Des
Sam Kelly wrote:
>Hi to all. I have been testing colored crayons and water colores that I
>have made myself to put on my pots. Tests at earthernware work fine and
>are finished.
>Problem is half of these 11 colors burn out at cone 9(reduction) or are
>that pale they can hardly be seen. I have asked when buying my stain will
>it go to stoneware, some retailers say yes, others "i don't know, there
>supposed to".
>So I live in Australia and don't mind buying overseas if it is necessary.
>Can anybody give me a maker/company that you can garentee from your own
>experience that there stains will go to cone 9-10(black, red and blue are
>no problem).
>
>
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Sam Kelly on fri 26 may 06
Hi people, thanks for the help. I wrote a great big response to all the
issues here and it didn=92t turn up on clayart. So here is a mini version,
yes I may have to change atmosphere(means a whole kiln load).
I accept the point on reduction being a considerable factor
underglaze works fine, yellow, lime green at these hell temps., what
stains/whatever are they made of, can we acquire them?.
Nothing under ^8 is considered(to my knowledge) a stoneware in my part of
Australia, and that goes for the national manufacturers as well, something
to do with percentage of absorption of the fired ware being the key factor
to a clay body being named stoneware(associated with a hardness factor of
the body).
Tableware/functional stoneware have sections(eg. foot rims, base) left
unglazed with no evidence(glaze crazing) ever, of any absorption issues of
anything over multiple years of use. Heres a pic of a bag of commercial
clay.
http://home.exetel.com.au/pottery/clay/clay.jpg
^6 is considered the lowest temp. of the =93hard=94 clay bodies[REF: A Potte=
rs
Dictionary- Frank & Janet Hamer]. With the absorption issue(exposed areas)
in mind, any one here in OZ know of a hard ^6 stoneware to play with. This
is the go if it works, stoneware at lower temps equals lower cost!.
Sam
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