Steve Slatin on tue 30 may 06
Stephani --
One of the oddities of the BBB is that it's a
loose collection of independent organizations --
over 100 nationwide. Each operates rather
independently, and not all are equally ethical in
their behavior.
There are also scammers who claim to BE the BBB
and offer to resolve complaints, etc. if you send
them a check. Of course the address will be
something other than the actual BBB ...
If you really want the amusement and have the
time; take the guy's name when he calls (if you
haven't already) and call the BBB listed in your
telephone book and ask if he works there. If he
does, ask to speak to his supervisor, and tell
your story and ask if it's true that to get a
fair shake from BBB in conflict resolution you
have to be a member of the organization ...
Best wishes -- Steve S
--- Stephani Stephenson
wrote:
> I placed a classified ad in a newspaper, just
> to try it. just a small
> print ad in a resource section.
> I have received 2 calls from a guy who says he
> is the better business
> bureau
> claiming, on the first call that the BBB had
> received several
> 'inquiries', hinting that they were
> 'complaints' about my business
> I was of course , aghast, but on further
> inquiry, I think the g uy was
> just scanning ads for new people to call to hit
> up about paying to join
> the BBB and
> he admitted that he had received no calls form
> anyone I had ever done
> business with.
>
> today he called again, insisting that they
> needed to check up on
> people who might be 'running a major ad
> campaign'
> I confronted him by reminding me he had called
> me previously and that I
> had said I did not wish to join the BBB , that
> I was not
> mounting a major ad campaign and that I
> considered his call a sales
> solicitation call and would he please not call
> again.
> he got beligerant and said bottom line : I
> better join the BBB if I
> wanted to stay in business.
>
> what is going on here? I feel Like I need to
> call the BBB to report the
> BBB!
> anyone else have experience with this kind of
> bullying?
>
> Stephani Stephenson
> steph@revivaltileworks.com
> http://www.revivaltileworks.com
>
>
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Stephani Stephenson on tue 30 may 06
I placed a classified ad in a newspaper, just to try it. just a small
print ad in a resource section.
I have received 2 calls from a guy who says he is the better business
bureau
claiming, on the first call that the BBB had received several
'inquiries', hinting that they were 'complaints' about my business
I was of course , aghast, but on further inquiry, I think the g uy was
just scanning ads for new people to call to hit up about paying to join
the BBB and
he admitted that he had received no calls form anyone I had ever done
business with.
today he called again, insisting that they needed to check up on
people who might be 'running a major ad campaign'
I confronted him by reminding me he had called me previously and that I
had said I did not wish to join the BBB , that I was not
mounting a major ad campaign and that I considered his call a sales
solicitation call and would he please not call again.
he got beligerant and said bottom line : I better join the BBB if I
wanted to stay in business.
what is going on here? I feel Like I need to call the BBB to report the
BBB!
anyone else have experience with this kind of bullying?
Stephani Stephenson
steph@revivaltileworks.com
http://www.revivaltileworks.com
Taylor Hendrix on tue 30 may 06
Steph,
If you have caller ID and this mook calles again, copy down his
number, notify him that you have done so and then make your own call
to your State Attorney's office. This smells like a scam and you need
to nip it.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 5/30/06, Stephani Stephenson wrote:
...
> he got beligerant and said bottom line : I better join the BBB if I
> wanted to stay in business.
>
> what is going on here? I feel Like I need to call the BBB to report the
> BBB!
> anyone else have experience with this kind of bullying?
>
...
L. P. Skeen on wed 31 may 06
I don't think one has to be a member of the organization to get a shake, =
fair or otherwise, from the BBB. A couple of years ago I was reported =
to the BBB for not sending a piece of pottery back to its owner as =
agreed. I had sent the piece, had the receipt (insured), had the owner =
of the pack and ship company write a letter to the BBB on my behalf as =
well. They wrote me back that they felt I had bent over backwards, and =
closed the case, end of story. =20
Anybody who is a business can be reported to teh BBB for any perceived =
"wrong". Thing is, who ever checks the BBB ratings unless they're =
buying something huge? I'd be really surprised to find out that my =
record had ever been checked by anyone else. =20
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Steve Slatin=20
ask if it's true that to get a
fair shake from BBB in conflict resolution you
have to be a member of the organization ...
Fred Parker on wed 31 may 06
Stephani:
Apologies for the delay in responding. Been having probs w/email etc.,
but this is important. I wanted to share my own, very personal,
experience with the BBB:
Back in the early 90's, sick of my then-career, I bought into a franchise
business. It was in the automotive aftermarket services arena, and my
customers tended to include a good sprinkling of -- well, how should I say
this -- "scammers."
I went into this business with honorable intentions. I would treat my
employees and customers honestly and fairly. They, of course, would
reciprocate with more of their business and their good recommendations to
friends.
Can't believe I was ever that gullible!
Turned out, in the retail sector there are many who believe it is
perfectly fair -- even noble -- to scam small businesses. Their mentality
causes them to believe every small business owner is rich and won't miss a
few hundreds here and there. They have been -- in my opinion -- so
conditioned by an entitlement culture that they actually believe they
deserve whatever they can con others out of, and some of them
are very good at it.
Enter the BBB.
My first encounter was not a solicitation to join up or else (although I
wouldn't put it past them), it was a "letter" from one of my customers
who turned out to be one of the scammers I described. The game goes like
this:
Customer/scammer purchases a product or service. In my case, it was an
automotive repaint, which everyone knows cannot be "returned." Next,
customer/scammer sends a letter to the BBB alleging some problem with the
product/service. By the way, we were extremely careful to ALWAYS apprise
customers owning old, rusted-out, beat-up cars that the paint job would
contain imperfections and flaws and would definitely NOT be "like new."
They were given a WRITTEN DESCRIPTION of expected imperfection -- which
they SIGNED. Even so, the next step was a "complaint letter" sent to the
BBB.
Now the BBB takes up the ball. They send an "issue letter" to the
business owner pretending to be a "mediator" in "resolving"
this "conflict" between you and your "customer." They also "open a file"
on the "unresolved issue" involving your business. From that point on,
anyone who calls the BBB to enquire about a business is told of
every "unresolved issue" but not the facts surrounding each.
Now, it's up to the business owner to defend his actions. Fearing an
unwarranted stain on my business reputation, I spent hours
writing full explanations, copying contracts with the customer's
signature, noting the very imperfections he was complaining about. Once
the owner's defense is submitted to the BBB, the BBB then contacts the
customer/scammer, related the owner's defense and asks, "are you
satisfied?"
Duhh! Of course the a##h*&% isn't "satisfied!" What the customer/scammer
wants is a free paint job -- in the form of a full refund, knowing the
shop cannot take back the paint job. SO, he tells the BBB he isn't
satisfied, and the BBB once again notifies the business owner of
his "problem." This can repeat ad infinitum. What the BBB and the
customer/scammer seem to bank on is that the business owner, terrified
of "unresolved issues" in his BBB "file" will cave in order to cut his
losses. I did that for the first year I was in business. I don't know
what it cost me -- easily thousands in direct refunds. Then I realized
the BBB never had reported a legitimate problem. I made it a point and
policy to resolve legitimate problems with my customers before they left
my shop, so they never complained to the BBB.
Eventually, after a year (I'm a slow learner) I started ignoring the BBB's
letters. I don't know what that cost me in lost business. I'm sure it
was significant, but there are only 24 hours to a day, and I had to try
and run my business.
The BBB, in my opinion, is unethical to the hilt! It is unbalanced, a
complete advocate for the complaining customer with absolutely no effort
to determine whether a scam is being conducted against the business.
Unfortunately, they have managed to hide behind a bogus cloak identity
of "objective third party mediator" when in fact it seems all they do is
extort membership fees from legitimate businesses. I'm sure their net
snags a few unethical businesses also, but the truth is, most of those
don't care anyway and will most likely change their own identity soon in
order to keep up their questionable practices.
If the BBB contacted me today and offered a crisp new $100 bill to scratch
my own n%^s after sitting in a poison ivy bed, I'd tell them to shove it
right up their own a$$ so it could remain near their heart!
Didn't mean to make it a tireade, but it reminded me of all those Sunday
afternoons spent answering BBB letters...
Fred Parker
P.S.
Sometime, ask me what I think of credit cards in the hands of scammer
customers...
On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:50:31 -0700, Stephani Stephenson
wrote:
>I placed a classified ad in a newspaper, just to try it. just a small
>print ad in a resource section.
>I have received 2 calls from a guy who says he is the better business
>bureau
>claiming, on the first call that the BBB had received several
>'inquiries', hinting that they were 'complaints' about my business
>I was of course , aghast, but on further inquiry, I think the g uy was
>just scanning ads for new people to call to hit up about paying to join
>the BBB and
>he admitted that he had received no calls form anyone I had ever done
>business with.
>
>today he called again, insisting that they needed to check up on
>people who might be 'running a major ad campaign'
>I confronted him by reminding me he had called me previously and that I
>had said I did not wish to join the BBB , that I was not
>mounting a major ad campaign and that I considered his call a sales
>solicitation call and would he please not call again.
>he got beligerant and said bottom line : I better join the BBB if I
>wanted to stay in business.
>
>what is going on here? I feel Like I need to call the BBB to report the
>BBB!
>anyone else have experience with this kind of bullying?
>
>Stephani Stephenson
>steph@revivaltileworks.com
>http://www.revivaltileworks.com
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Slatin on wed 31 may 06
L, my gentle friend -
You're presuming in my suggestion I have no
hidden agenda. In this case I certainly do.
I wouldn't expect at any honestly run BBB there'd
be a preference in treatment for members. I'm
suggesting she ask the question because Stephani
S felt that was the message of the call, and the
guy who called her crossed the line of acceptable
behavior (fibbing about why he called in the
first place, implying favored treatment if SS
sent him a check).
There are lots of local BBB's that are totally
honorable. There's also history of local BBB's
operating in a less than desirable way. Probably
SS's experience was with a scammer, trying to get
her to send a check to a post office box, or a
single, rouge employee. But if no one raises the
question, how is the BBB to know to pursue a
scammer and stop him? If it is a rouge employee,
how is the BBB to know so they can control him?
If Stephani wants to pursue this, a gentle e-mail
saying 'someone called me and asked me to become
a BBB member, and I don't know why' isn't going
to get management off the dime. Asking if
there's a two-tier system at BBB with favorable
treatment for member, will undoubtedly get their
attention.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- "L. P. Skeen"
wrote:
> I don't think one has to be a member of the
> organization to get a shake, fair or otherwise,
> from the BBB. A couple of years ago I was
> reported to the BBB for not sending a piece of
> pottery back to its owner as agreed. I had
> sent the piece, had the receipt (insured), had
> the owner of the pack and ship company write a
> letter to the BBB on my behalf as well. They
> wrote me back that they felt I had bent over
> backwards, and closed the case, end of story.
>
> Anybody who is a business can be reported to
> teh BBB for any perceived "wrong". Thing is,
> who ever checks the BBB ratings unless they're
> buying something huge? I'd be really surprised
> to find out that my record had ever been
> checked by anyone else.
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Slatin
> ask if it's true that to get a
> fair shake from BBB in conflict resolution
> you
> have to be a member of the organization ...
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may
> be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
__________________________________________________
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Maurice Weitman on wed 31 may 06
At 10:06 -0700 on 5/31/06, Steve Slatin wrote:
>[...] SS's experience was with a scammer, trying to get
>her to send a check to a post office box, or a
>single, rouge employee.
So now Slatin's dumping on unmarried people who wear a little makeup.
Sheesh! What next???
Maurice, in Fairfax, Cal, trying to make believe my trigger finger is
getting better after the third cortisone injection in four years...
the cut is next.
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