Jacqueline Miller on tue 30 may 06
Marcia: I have used southern Ice for a couple of years with good luck. With
Frost, which I think throws much more easily, I keep getting cracks while it
is drying. Any thoughts? I usually cover with plastic and then leave it
uncovered after it is trimmed. Jackie
On 5/30/06, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>
> Cindy,
> I love it. AND try the few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and
> see how tall you can go!
>
> Marcia Selsor
> http://marciaselsor.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
--
Jackie Miller
JackieAMiller@gmail.com
Marcia Selsor on tue 30 may 06
Cindy,
I love it. AND try the few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and
see how tall you can go!
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Marcia Selsor on wed 31 may 06
I got cracks with Aspen. I threw a lot of Southern Ice in hawaii and
no cracking.
No cracking with frost either. I fired a test bisque and it looked
like vertical fractures around
a cylinder but (?) they disappeared in the glaze.
Haven't gotten the translucency of Southern Ice yet. But I haven't
done a whole lot with it.
Just got it this spring but I have a show of Raku plaques going up
tomorrow. Maybe dry upside down when possible.
On May 30, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Jacqueline Miller wrote:
> Marcia: I have used southern Ice for a couple of years with good
> luck. With
> Frost, which I think throws much more easily, I keep getting cracks
> while it
> is drying. Any thoughts? I usually cover with plastic and then
> leave it
> uncovered after it is trimmed. Jackie
>
> On 5/30/06, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>>
>> Cindy,
>> I love it. AND try the few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and
>> see how tall you can go!
>>
>> Marcia Selsor
>> http://marciaselsor.com
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jackie Miller
> JackieAMiller@gmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
lee love on wed 31 may 06
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>
> I got cracks with Aspen. I threw a lot of Southern Ice in hawaii and
> no cracking.
Altitude? Humidity difference?
I just started throwing with Aussie porcelain, I add 20% Mashiko
Nami for tooth. (Euan adds 25% Shigaraki nami to the same body and has
translucency.)
Making porcelain to try out my Chun blue in saggers.
Inspired by the shards at the Idemitsu shard room.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Future "NEW" pottery sales spot:
http://www.esnips.com/web/PotterySale
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Carly Gibran on tue 6 jun 06
I use Frost exclusively, for sculpture and throwing, and do not have problem=
s with cracking. I am
in
Florida, so if humidity were a huge factor, I would likely have it.
I do use a trick I read about when throwing: Center your clay and then cut =
it off the wheel. Turn it
over and re center it. I am not sure if that is why I don=92t have cracking=
, but it is worth a try.
Carly Gibran
On Wed, 31 May 2006 06:35:16 -0600, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>I got cracks with Aspen. I threw a lot of Southern Ice in hawaii and
>no cracking.
>No cracking with frost either. I fired a test bisque and it looked
>like vertical fractures around
>a cylinder but (?) they disappeared in the glaze.
>Haven't gotten the translucency of Southern Ice yet. But I haven't
>done a whole lot with it.
>Just got it this spring but I have a show of Raku plaques going up
>tomorrow. Maybe dry upside down when possible.
>
>On May 30, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Jacqueline Miller wrote:
>
>> Marcia: I have used southern Ice for a couple of years with good
>> luck. With
>> Frost, which I think throws much more easily, I keep getting cracks
>> while it
>> is drying. Any thoughts? I usually cover with plastic and then
>> leave it
>> uncovered after it is trimmed. Jackie
>>
>> On 5/30/06, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>>>
>>> Cindy,
>>> I love it. AND try the few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and
>>> see how tall you can go!
>>>
>>> Marcia Selsor
>>> http://marciaselsor.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> _________
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jackie Miller
>> JackieAMiller@gmail.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> ________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>
>Marcia Selsor
>http://marciaselsor.com
>
>___________________________________________________________________________=
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.=
com.
Jacqueline Miller on wed 7 jun 06
Carly: Thanks. I will keep trying with the Frost then. I really like how it
throws. Jackie
On 6/6/06, Carly Gibran wrote:
>
> I use Frost exclusively, for sculpture and throwing, and do not have
> problems with cracking. I am
> in
> Florida, so if humidity were a huge factor, I would likely have it.
>
> I do use a trick I read about when throwing: Center your clay and then
> cut it off the wheel. Turn it
> over and re center it. I am not sure if that is why I don't have
> cracking, but it is worth a try.
>
> Carly Gibran
>
>
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 06:35:16 -0600, Marcia Selsor wrote:
>
> >I got cracks with Aspen. I threw a lot of Southern Ice in hawaii and
> >no cracking.
> >No cracking with frost either. I fired a test bisque and it looked
> >like vertical fractures around
> >a cylinder but (?) they disappeared in the glaze.
> >Haven't gotten the translucency of Southern Ice yet. But I haven't
> >done a whole lot with it.
> >Just got it this spring but I have a show of Raku plaques going up
> >tomorrow. Maybe dry upside down when possible.
> >
> >On May 30, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Jacqueline Miller wrote:
> >
> >> Marcia: I have used southern Ice for a couple of years with good
> >> luck. With
> >> Frost, which I think throws much more easily, I keep getting cracks
> >> while it
> >> is drying. Any thoughts? I usually cover with plastic and then
> >> leave it
> >> uncovered after it is trimmed. Jackie
> >>
> >> On 5/30/06, Marcia Selsor wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Cindy,
> >>> I love it. AND try the few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and
> >>> see how tall you can go!
> >>>
> >>> Marcia Selsor
> >>> http://marciaselsor.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> _________
> >>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>>
> >>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>>
> >>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >>> melpots@pclink.com.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jackie Miller
> >> JackieAMiller@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________________
> >> ________
> >> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>
> >> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >> melpots@pclink.com.
> >>
> >
> >Marcia Selsor
> >http://marciaselsor.com
> >
>
> >______________________________________________________________________________
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
--
Jackie Miller
JackieAMiller@gmail.com
Frank Gaydos on fri 22 jul 11
A friend asked me for suggestions from the group about this problem with a =
=3D
store bought Frost Porcelain.=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
She states it is pretty hard but when she starts to hit it, it loosens up. =
=3D
Thinks it is thixotropic . Impossible to throw with.=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Her question, is there anything she can wedge into the clay and make it mor=
=3D
e throwable ?=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
TIA=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Frank=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Wendy Peck on fri 22 jul 11
Frank,
I have used Frost, and I am, at best, just competant on the wheel. I learne=
d
to drop Southern Ice on the floor from about hip height (I'm 5.4") to
soften, so I did the same when I started with Frost. I drop it at least onc=
e
on all six sides, and that softens the clay to where I can easily work with
it. I work quickly, and use slip rather than water to throw, and really
don't have a lot of trouble with it, even with thin walls. (Compress the
bottom very well -- cracks are almost guaranteed if you don't.)
I don't have the physics or chemistry knowledge to explain how this works,
but I have used many bags of Frost after this treatment alone. It goes from
feeling very hard to useable instantly.
Wendy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Gaydos"
...
She states it is pretty hard but when she starts to hit it, it loosens up.
Thinks it is thixotropic . Impossible to throw with.
Her question, is there anything she can wedge into the clay and make it mor=
e
throwable ?
Edouard Bastarache on fri 22 jul 11
Frank,
I dont know anything about frost porcelaine but I do about stoneware clay.
When mine becomes too hard, I pour a small glass of water in the bag
(25 pounds of clay),close it and put everything on a flat surface. Every da=
y
I flip sides and repeat the procedure for between 3 to 5 days.Then it
becomes
soft enough to be wedged and thrown.
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://edouardbastaracheblogs2.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
http://blogsalbertbastarache.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Gaydos"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: Frost Porcelain
A friend asked me for suggestions from the group about this problem with a
store bought Frost Porcelain.
She states it is pretty hard but when she starts to hit it, it loosens up.
Thinks it is thixotropic . Impossible to throw with.
Her question, is there anything she can wedge into the clay and make it mor=
e
throwable ?
TIA
Frank
John Britt on fri 22 jul 11
Usually you add Epson Salt water and run it through a pug mill.
Johnbrittpottery.com
Hank Murrow on fri 22 jul 11
On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Wendy Peck wrote:
> Frank,
>=3D20
> I have used Frost, and I am, at best, just competant on the wheel. I =3D
learned
> to drop Southern Ice on the floor from about hip height (I'm 5.4") to
> soften, so I did the same when I started with Frost. I drop it at =3D
least once
> on all six sides, and that softens the clay to where I can easily work =
=3D
with
> it. I work quickly, and use slip rather than water to throw, and =3D
really
> don't have a lot of trouble with it, even with thin walls. (Compress =3D
the
> bottom very well -- cracks are almost guaranteed if you don't.)
>=3D20
> I don't have the physics or chemistry knowledge to explain how this =3D
works,
> but I have used many bags of Frost after this treatment alone. It goes =
=3D
from
> feeling very hard to useable instantly.
Dear Wendy;
It is the slightly soluble alkalies in Nepheline Syenite that creates =3D
this behavior, dropping or slamming the hard pug on the concrete floor =3D
while in the bag breaks these ionic bonds temporarily so the clay can be =
=3D
worked. If it sits around in the bag for awhile, it will return to its =3D
'hard' state.
Cheers, Hank=3D
Antoinette Badenhorst on fri 22 jul 11
Frank, Frost was one of the claybodies I tested 2 years ago for PMI (buying=
=3D
porcelain). It is a beautiful claybody and the finished product compares w=
=3D
ell with SI, but it is much "stickier" than SI to work with. It has a very =
=3D
good greenstrengh, which also means you have to finish as much you can befo=
=3D
re it becomes leatherhard and definately before it is dry. There are 2 poss=
=3D
ibilities that I will suggest: one is to wet the clay (cut in slabs=3DC2=3D=
A0 a=3D
nd soak), and then wedge it dryer. Possibility is that it will become overw=
=3D
orked before is is the right dryness, but then if one leaves it overnight t=
=3D
o restore its magnetic fields, if will work well the next day. Wedge just b=
=3D
efore throwing a few times.=3D20
The easier and for me preferable option is to mix it with another porcelain=
=3D
body like one of Standard Ceramics porcelain. If she mixes it 50/50 she wi=
=3D
ll have a pleasant translucent white body and she will not compromise too m=
=3D
uch from Frost. In fact she will get the best of two worlds: workability an=
=3D
d a pleasant final product.=3D20
Another thing about Frost (they might have improved that), is that there wa=
=3D
s at the time only one clear glaze available to glaze=3DC2=3DA0 Frost with.=
Mix=3D
ing it with another porcelain body, eliminates most of that problem too.=3D=
20
I hope this helps.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst=3D20
www.porcelainbyAntoinette.com=3D20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Gaydos" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:56:46 AM=3D20
Subject: Frost Porcelain=3D20
A friend asked me for suggestions from the group about this problem with a =
=3D
store bought Frost Porcelain.=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
She states it is pretty hard but when she starts to hit it, it loosens up. =
=3D
Thinks it is thixotropic . Impossible to throw with.=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Her question, is there anything she can wedge into the clay and make it mor=
=3D
e throwable ?=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
TIA=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Frank=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Edouard Bastarache on fri 22 jul 11
John,
What if you dont own a pugmill?
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://edouardbastaracheblogs2.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
http://blogsalbertbastarache.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Britt"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Frost Porcelain
Usually you add Epson Salt water and run it through a pug mill.
Johnbrittpottery.com
John Britt on fri 22 jul 11
Edouarad,
Then you get this bumper sticker:
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/2011/03/i-still-wedge.html
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Edouard Bastarache wro=
te:
>
> John,
>
> What if you dont own a pugmill?
>
> Gis,
>
> Edouard Bastarache Spertesperantisto
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/**30058682@N00//30058682@N00/>
> http://edouardbastarache.**blogspot.com/t.com/>
> http://**edouardbastaracheblogs2.**blogspot.com/blogs2.blogspot.com/>
> http://www.facebook.com/**edouard.bastaracheard.bastarache>
> http://blogsalbertbastarache.**blogspot.com/.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Britt" <
> johnbrittpottery@GMAIL.COM>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Frost Porcelain
>
>
> Usually you add Epson Salt water and run it through a pug mill.
>
> Johnbrittpottery.com
>
>
>
>
--
Regards,
John
johnbrittpottery@gmail.com
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com
www.johnbrittpottery.com
Steve Mills on sat 23 jul 11
This behaviour is common with Porcelains available in the UK and with many=
w=3D
hite stonewares.=3D20
The Floor Bag Slam is an often practiced Dance Step over here!
Steve M
"doin' the Floor-Bag-Slam.....Ugh!"
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 22 Jul 2011, at 21:35, Hank Murrow wrote:
.
>=3D20
> Dear Wendy;
>=3D20
> It is the slightly soluble alkalies in Nepheline Syenite that creates thi=
s=3D
behavior, dropping or slamming the hard pug on the concrete floor while in=
t=3D
he bag breaks these ionic bonds temporarily so the clay can be worked. If i=
t=3D
sits around in the bag for awhile, it will return to its 'hard' state.
>=3D20
> Cheers, Hank
ivor and olive lewis on sat 23 jul 11
Dear Frank Gaydos,
If this clay body is designed the same way as other new super quality White
Porcelain clays seem to compounded I suspect that the condition cannot be
eliminated by remixing with some sort of additive.
The basic clay ingredient would be Halloysite. Although this mineral has th=
e
same elemental composition as Kaolinite it is not in the form of plate like
crystals. This reduces its ability to form a workable plastic mass when
mixed with water. To compensate and restore the plastic state a proportion
of Bentonite (Montmorillonite) may be added to the mix.. As I understand,
things, this mineral has the ability to sequester free water within its
basic structure (T-O-T). When stressed, water within the structure resumes
its fluid state when stress is applied.
Britannica ON Line describes these changes
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia.
William & Susan Schran User on sat 23 jul 11
On 7/23/11 5:37 AM, "Steve Mills" wrote:
> This behaviour is common with Porcelains available in the UK and with ma=
ny
> white stonewares.
> The Floor Bag Slam is an often practiced Dance Step over here!
> Steve M
> "doin' the Floor-Bag-Slam.....Ugh!"
I imagine one might need some rather fast foot work with such a dance!
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Joseph Herbert on sat 23 jul 11
Frank Wrote: "A friend asked me for suggestions from the group about this
problem with a store bought Frost Porcelain. She states it is pretty hard
but when she starts to hit it, it loosens up. Thinks it is thixotropic .
Impossible to throw with. Her question, is there anything she can wedge
into the clay and make it more throwable "
I have purchased and thrown the Frost Porcelain from Santa Fe Clay. I had
similar experience with it having a "bag set" that loosened with wedging. =
I
did not find it "unthrowable." It is, after all, porcelain. Any throwing
body that is 40% non-plastic particles will not throw like stoneware or
terra cotta clay.
I have had the experience of going to a community art center (In Euclid
Ohio) where the other participants were complaining bitterly about the
"unthrowable" character of the white low-fire body. I believe it was one o=
f
those bodies that are more than half talc (dark grey, fires white). So, it
was a body that was composed of a large amount of non-plastic particulate,
mixed with some ball clay, I suppose. In the event, even though I am not a
particularly accomplished thrower, I was able to produce a vasish form in
the 10" range fairly easily. (I was quietly gratified)
It is not so much that the bodies that have large amounts of non-plastic
components are un-workable, they just will not let you get away with much.
If you aren't rather direct, don't limit the water, or not centering well,
they will make you pay. It is true and good that the beginner should be
given a plastic, forgiving body to learn with. It's just that they aren't
all like that.
Before making an addition to this throwing body, look for some possible
changes in technique to solve the problem.
Joe
Joseph Herbert
Training Developer
Julie Brooks on sat 23 jul 11
Frank,
I have worked with Frost Porcelain frequently in the last two years. Y=
=3D
es,
she should drop the bag a few times, the porcelain will loosen up. I do =
=3D
not
recommend epsom salts. Why? Because, you can alter the firmness by usin=
=3D
g
plain water without the risk of making the clay unusable. If the porcela=
=3D
in
(or any other clay) is hard due to a lack of water, yes, cut into chunky
slices, spray with water and put it back into a sealed bag for a couple
days. Then wedge (correctly and well, use that wire tool to assess for a=
=3D
ir
bubbles.
As with any porcelain, the more you move it, the more it wants to move.=
=3D
I
love the pure white body, the feel of the fired pieces and it makes glaze=
=3D
s
look spectacular. Frost is very sensitive to water content. If it seems=
=3D
almost impossible to work with, cut a few pieces and set them on edge for=
=3D
a
few hours (or 10 minutes if you live in Iowa or Kansas this summer) then
wedge to even out the water content. I also try to throw efficiently (no=
=3D
extra pulls) when working with porcelain.=3D20=3D20=3D20
Frost is worth the time it take to make friends, but if you find it
exasperating, take a break and use WC617 or WC-631. I have found both of=
=3D
these bodies quite agreeable with superior whiteness.
Julie Brooks
Edouard Bastarache on sat 23 jul 11
Joseph,
"It is, after all, porcelain. Any throwing body that is
40% non-plastic particles will not throw like stoneware or
terra cotta clay."
All the porcelains tested here had more than 40% non-plastic
materials.
Of course, following the advice given here a few months ago
I added different amounts of bentonite to render Rhodes' 4x25%
workable and it it really works.
Some were too plastic for me so I lowered the amount of bentonite:
http://poterie-porcelaines.blogspot.com/
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://edouardbastaracheblogs2.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
http://blogsalbertbastarache.blogspot.com/
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