Elizabeth Priddy on tue 6 jun 06
In defense of my own defensiveness:
The only MFA that could happen in my life at this
point is the "lame-ass MFA" , as Vince refers to my
only option.
I did 5 years of full immersion design school brick
and mortar. Those dues are paid in full. Late nights
and working full time alongside a full load for five
years in (at the time) one of the top 10 design
schools in the country, NC State.
The part of the MFA experience that I would miss out
on would be a part that I got plenty of the first go
round on two BA's with 6 semesters of studios with
crit in each one.
But there is probably some reason that that doesn't
mitigate it either, eh? I UNDERSTAND the loss of
quality associated with the loss of social environment
and peer support AND I see that as a feature, not a
bug. I liked the critique, but the surrounding bull
left me cold and tired.
I went to school in classes directly alongside MFA
students in 400 level graduate classes and the quality
of the input from the graduate students was very
similar to the undergrads, just with better artspeak
behind it.
The undergrads were virtually inarticulate and could
not clearly explain why they hated your work, whereas
the grad students could explain precisely why they
hated your work. My tongue is only in half of my
cheek.
Although my work was singularly loved by all, the
crits were guided by Dr. Cox and others who kept it at
a very high quality of discourse, so I have seen the
immersion MFA in person and am making an informed
decision about whether online would be better for me.
So my point, Vince, I guess, is that you are throwing
the baby out with the bath water. No bricks and
mortar makes for more opportunity for people with
challenges, like, for instance, me. Or for instance,
people with disabilities that NEED a completely
modified studio space to work at all whose brick and
mortar needs are not met on campus.
Open your mind to the challenge and let go of your
sacred cow long enough to be part of the solution. If
all the programs are lame ass in five years and
nothing has emerged as valid, legitimate programs,
then you can sit back and say "I told you it wouldn't
work or generate legitimate MFA candidates". But the
jury is still waaaay out on this one and you are on to
sentencing.
E
sometimes when I remember how many people must just
delte me wholesale, I think about the fact that some
things I have said are still on mel's mind and it
makes me happy.
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Dannon Rhudy on tue 6 jun 06
Elizabeth said:
> The undergrads were virtually inarticulate and could
> not clearly explain why they hated your work, whereas
> the grad students could explain precisely why they
> hated your work. My tongue is only in half of my
> cheek.>>>>>>>>>
Ah, Elizabeth, I remember this well. Critiques were often
a waste of time, but sometimes they were not, as you
know.
You are correct in your observation that undergrads
have a difficult time expressing what they mean, and
since often they don't mean anything at all, that 's
just as well. But some do learn, and there is sometimes
something to be gotten from critiques. Often though, they turn
into lessons in agile defense of position/work. That's
when it is really boring. More interesting is when some/any
learn to think about "what if".
I know I'm merely responding to a single paragraph of
your post, but that is the one that made me smile. I always
enjoy a morning smile.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Elizabeth Priddy on tue 6 jun 06
My dream crit:
Some of thes folks I know and some I only know as
teachers in other formats, or distance learning if you
will.
mel, Diana Pancioli, Lili, Joyce, Steph, lana Wilson,
Dannon Rhudy, Snail Scott, and Marcia.
(mel would not be allowed to speak, as he is a man and
gets to talk anytime he wants. His eyebrows would say
most anything he had to offer, anyhow. Oh how they
would twitch...)
I'ld have scary good handbuilders to evaluate my work
itself, innovative thinkers to recognize the ways I
work that are really different, people who build
things I cannot to tell me how far I still have to
grow, people who have better eyes than me to see my
flaws. And eyes that appreciate beauty as well as
innovation.
And for once in my life, I would sit back and keep my
mouth shut, as I would be fairly certain that I was in
the presence of people who had something available to
teach me and the capacity to say it articulately. I
might need duct tape for this part.
There are others that might have good things to
contribute but that would hog the table, or make it
all about them, or who have blinders, or who always
say the same thing no matter what they are looking at.
They would have to sit in the cheap seats at the back
and employ the duct tape as well.
Each of my dream crit team would be allowed to bring
one friend who's opinion they trust. And I would
listen to that too, again without speaking, but only
after everyone on the A team was finished.
And when it was over, I would remember everything they
said without notes and without predjudice and go back
to work.
Wow, what a dream. It could possibly be done with
video conferencing and a special delivery box of
identical pieces to each person for tactile feel.
I said this was a dream, right?
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Vince Pitelka on tue 6 jun 06
> The only MFA that could happen in my life at this
> point is the "lame-ass MFA" , as Vince refers to my
> only option.
That is simply a matter of timing and commitment. When your child gets a
little older, OF COURSE you could do a residency MFA if you really wanted
one, and unless you really want one, there is no point in doing it any other
way.
> I did 5 years of full immersion design school brick
> and mortar. Those dues are paid in full. Late nights
> and working full time alongside a full load for five
> years in (at the time) one of the top 10 design
> schools in the country, NC State.
Dues paid in full? The dues you paid were for the batchelor's degree, and
have nothing to do with the MFA. You need to be in residency, communicating
with your fellow students and your teachers on a daily or weekly basis in
order to get the most out of the MFA. That is a fact.
> The part of the MFA experience that I would miss out
> on would be a part that I got plenty of the first go
> round on two BA's with 6 semesters of studios with
> crit in each one.
Again, they are mutually exclusive. It might seem like more of the same,
but it is absolutely essential to a quality MFA. You can't do one without
it.
> But there is probably some reason that that doesn't
> mitigate it either, eh? I UNDERSTAND the loss of
> quality associated with the loss of social environment
> and peer support AND I see that as a feature, not a
> bug. I liked the critique, but the surrounding bull
> left me cold and tired.
I understand completely. You don't have to participate in the "surrounding
bull" any more than you want to.
> I went to school in classes directly alongside MFA
> students in 400 level graduate classes and the quality
> of the input from the graduate students was very
> similar to the undergrads, just with better artspeak
> behind it.
You can learn a lot about yourself and teach others a lot about themselves
by participating in these conversations in rational terms without succumbing
to artspeak. Artspeak is a veil, and intelligent, well-motivated students
and teachers don't bother with it.
> The undergrads were virtually inarticulate and could
> not clearly explain why they hated your work, whereas
> the grad students could explain precisely why they
> hated your work. My tongue is only in half of my
> cheek.
Again, participating in these discussions will allow you to both learn and
teach. Okay, suppose you don't want to spend your time in grad school
teaching, you just want to learn. So, participate in these discussions
selectively. That's your choice. You have to participate in critiques with
your teachers and your fellow grad students - that's required. But the
degree with which you get involved in art discussions with undergrads is up
to you. And in my own experience, while I was in grad school I profited
greatly from participating in discussions with many very articulate
undergrads.
> Open your mind to the challenge and let go of your
> sacred cow long enough to be part of the solution. If
> all the programs are lame ass in five years and
> nothing has emerged as valid, legitimate programs,
> then you can sit back and say "I told you it wouldn't
> work or generate legitimate MFA candidates". But the
> jury is still waaaay out on this one and you are on to
> sentencing.
I am always willing to open my mind to every challenge, but I will not
compromise on something so fundamental, and to me, so obvious. I know that
other universities are going to develop more distance or online BFA and MFA
programs, and there will inevitably be students like Tony Ferguson who use
these programs and make the most of the opportunity. There will be others
who will get through with a minimum of effort and end up with the equivalent
of a "degree mill" BFA or MFA, and I feel sorry for those people, because
they will have missed out on a good opportunity. And even the most
motivated, experienced, and self-motivated students who choose the distance
or on-line options will miss out on much of what the BFA or MFA has to
offer. There is no way it could be otherwise.
This isn't any sacred cow. It's just reality. I've spent a great deal of
time studying, listening, and considering these issues, and my convictions
are very firm, for very good reasons.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
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