Hank Murrow on sat 10 jun 06
On Jun 10, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Amanda Bohnsack wrote:
> Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn.
> The
> barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation. I live in
> upstate NY
> so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put in some sort of heat,
> probably not for the entire barn, but just for this one room. There's
> also
> no water in the barn, but the well is right out front. I'll also have
> to
> have it wired for the kiln. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea of
> what all
> this might cost? Has anyone taken on a similar project? I've read
> some of
> the great posts in the studio list, but didn't see much on actual cost
> estimates. Any advice on this project would be helpful. The floor is
> already concrete and I've got some decent windows, I'd say the room
> itself
> is about 20'x 25'. Thanks!
Dear Amanda;
Have a look on the internet for cove-type infra-red heaters. They work
on the principle of low frequency heat waves, yet the heater itself is
only 160F. Just like walking into the sun's rays but weaker. The
'secret' of using infra red heat is creating a radiant barrier
surrounding the space. In your case, a reflecctive barrier of
foil-lined bubble pack insulation on all surfaces except the
floor(though under the floor works well) is required to keep the
radiant energy bouncing around the room and not escaping through the
surfaces. Sealing the space is not critical as you are being heated by
the infra-red rays, not hot air. John Glick uses it, and he turned me
on to same. Costs can be pretty low, especially if youy work with a
heating contractor or supplier who deals in used units. There is
nothing to wear out, so used can be a spectacular buy.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Amanda Bohnsack on sat 10 jun 06
Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn. The
barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation. I live in upstate NY
so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put in some sort of heat,
probably not for the entire barn, but just for this one room. There's also
no water in the barn, but the well is right out front. I'll also have to
have it wired for the kiln. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea of what all
this might cost? Has anyone taken on a similar project? I've read some of
the great posts in the studio list, but didn't see much on actual cost
estimates. Any advice on this project would be helpful. The floor is
already concrete and I've got some decent windows, I'd say the room itself
is about 20'x 25'. Thanks!
Hank Murrow on sun 11 jun 06
Dear Norman;
Glad you found my post useful. Remember the Rule about radiant
heat........ reflect it back before it is absorbed by the building. It
will run much more efficiently this way. Perhaps there is an infrared
reflective paint you could do the walls with. I used foil-covered
bubble wrap just inside the drywall on my setup in the studio.
Cheers, Hank
On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Norman Aufrichtig wrote:
> dear hank,
> it was great to read this email as the radiant heat that was embedded
> into
> the floor of my house when it was built has failed, as it is a true
> adobe
> house, very hard to work on, was going to cost a small fortune to put
> baseboards into it. needed another solution, found inferred heating on
> the
> internet, thought of inferred as i have a far inferred sauna which i
> really
> enjoy using, a great tool for health. have been trying to find out if
> the
> cove inferred heaters would work and really keep the house worm, none
> of the
> contractors here in taos know about them, i even checked with kit
> carson
> electric, the local electric coop. they didn't know either, but when
> talking
> with them about the wattage that i would be using (ten times the sq.
> feet)
> it seems as if this system of heating will turn out to be very
> economical to
> use. out of desperation bought a small unit which i put into the
> bathroom
> and have been testing it. the problem is that it is summer and while
> it does
> get cooler at night, not the best time to test, it does seem to warm
> the
> room and i felt it would work. so, your post was very welcome as it
> verified my concerns about the heaters, as its always difficult to
> leap into
> the unknown. found a few companies that sell the radiant heaters on the
> internet. the co. i am thinking of going with is radiant systems inc.
> the
> units are about half the price of the others,
> www.radiantsystemsinc.com .
> the heaters seems to be well made and i do feel the gentle heat coming
> off
> it. terrific synchronicity.
> thanks, norman
www.murrow.biz/hank
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 11 jun 06
Hi Amanda,
What something like this will cost, depends
entirely on who does it, and the resourcefullness
with which the items/materials are obtained, the
costs of or adherance to
applicable codes and permits, or at least code
compliance where such is merely good judgement
anyway,
and, what labor or what cost of labor is, to fit
or
install these things.
If you have an actual room already, and just need
to heat
it and bring in water and maybe 110 and 220 ( do
you want your
Kiln 'in' the room? Or outside of the room...?
Outside of the room would be much better in
many ways, I would think...)
It could be done for a couple hundred dollars, to
some ways more than a thousand dollars, or even
five thousand even...depending
on the kind of deal you get on the Stove, Stove
Pipe, triple wall, and so on if it is to be a Wood
or Oil Stove...the conduit for the electrical
wires, a small sub-panel, how far to the Main
Panel, whether the
Main Panel has the Amps to spare...the wireing
itself...possible venting issues for the Kiln...
The Copper or Black Iron Pipe and fittings for the
Water, insulation and
heat-wrap for the Pipe, a second Hot Water Heater
possibly
to allow you warm Water...a Sink, drains somehow
in some way, even if just to let it all dump out
back of the Barn...faucet and so on...
All easy to get stuff, either used, bought new by
someone and never used, or bought now by you
new...
All straightforward stuff to install and hook
up...
But very mutable as for how much ultimately will
get spent...
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Bohnsack"
> Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to
a room in my barn. The
> barn is fairly old, but I think has some
insulation. I live in upstate NY
> so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put
in some sort of heat,
> probably not for the entire barn, but just for
this one room. There's also
> no water in the barn, but the well is right out
front. I'll also have to
> have it wired for the kiln. I'm wondering if
anyone has an idea of what all
> this might cost? Has anyone taken on a similar
project? I've read some of
> the great posts in the studio list, but didn't
see much on actual cost
> estimates. Any advice on this project would be
helpful. The floor is
> already concrete and I've got some decent
windows, I'd say the room itself
> is about 20'x 25'. Thanks!
Sue Beach on sun 11 jun 06
Amanda,
When we moved to this place, we put my pottery studio in a pole barn that was
already here. My 1/2 of the barn is about the size of your room. Concrete
floor, insulated walls. We added a window (about $250 including installation),
and an air conditioner (about the same cost as the window). For heat, we had a
large propane fuel heater installed because we knew we'd eventually want to heat
the whole building once it was all insulated. That cost about $1500. My kiln
is in the other room (my husband's workshop) and we had an electrician wire it
(already had ample power to the building), and that was about $300. There was
water to the building, so we just ran a hose into an old sink a friend gave us
and ran the drain out into our field (free). So, I guess I got my studio up &
running for about $2,500 or so. That was 4 years ago & I'm in Indiana, so your
cost may vary.
Sue Beach
Muncie, IN
Quoting Amanda Bohnsack :
> Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn. The
> barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation. I live in upstate NY
> so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put in some sort of heat,
> probably not for the entire barn, but just for this one room. There's also
> no water in the barn, but the well is right out front. I'll also have to
> have it wired for the kiln. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea of what all
> this might cost? Has anyone taken on a similar project? I've read some of
> the great posts in the studio list, but didn't see much on actual cost
> estimates. Any advice on this project would be helpful. The floor is
> already concrete and I've got some decent windows, I'd say the room itself
> is about 20'x 25'. Thanks!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Kathi LeSueur on sun 11 jun 06
Amanda Bohnsack wrote:
>Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn. The
>barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation. I live in upstate NY
>so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put in some sort of heat,
>probably not for the entire barn, but just for this one room. There's also
>no water in the barn, but the well is right out front. I'll also have to
>have it wired for the kiln.>>
>
I can only make one suggestion. Line all walls with fire resistant
drywall. The wood in your barn is old and probably very dry. You need to
take utmost care to prevent a fire if you have a kiln in it.
Kathi
Snail Scott on sun 11 jun 06
At 10:36 PM 6/10/2006 -0400, Amanda B wrote:
>...I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn. The
>barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation...=20
>...I'll need to put in some sort of heat...
I am doing this right now. I have a metal barn,=20
and I am framing out one section as a separate=20
studio that I can heat and cool. I need to do it=20
on the cheap, as I am broker than ever since=20
grad school.=20
I have power to the barn, but will probably have=20
an actual electrician redo the breaker box and=20
check my circuit design. I can run Romex and=20
install the outlets myself, though. I plan to use=20
a lot of power strips with fuses, and not worry=20
too much about fixed-location outlets except for=20
the high-power-use tools. I will go with those=20
$10 fluorescent shop lights for illumination; I=20
still have a half dozen saved from my last studio.=20
This time, I'll put them on a wall switch instead=20
of a zillion cords and adapters and plugs. I am=20
gradually swapping out the old cheap tubes for=20
daylight tubes, as they fail. I already have two=20
windows if I use the front half of the barn as my=20
space. That'll make the rest of it really dark,=20
but will save me having to put down the concrete=20
in the back. The front already has it.
I have no water to the barn, so I'll have carry it=20
in buckets for now. Maybe a barrel above the sink.
I may run a really, really long black hose up from=20
the house. Or I may ask the nearest heighbor if I=20
can tap into their horse-barn hose bib. I never had=20
a drain in my studios before, so I won't miss that.=20
I'll regret the lack of toilet, but maybe I can=20
build an outhouse eventually. Have to check with=20
neighbors; my barn is closer to their barns than=20
it is to my own house. In the meantime, I'll hike=20
down to the house.
I salvaged a bunch of used studs and some plywood,=20
which will cut down framing costs, but I'll still=20
have to buy some. I plan to just frame and drywall=20
one side of my two new walls for now. I can=20
insulate later, and drywall the barn walls later,=20
too. Getting the studio enclosure varmint-proofed=20
is job #1. I am planning to use foamboard for=20
ceiling. It will allow airflow next to the metal,=20
and not provide nests for rodents like fiberglass=20
can.=20
Right now, drywall here is $8 for 1/2" thickness,=20
and 1 1/4" foamboard is like $24. That will add up.
I'll build when I can buy materials, a little at=20
at a time. I plan on the standard 16" spacing for=20
studs, but I could go to 24" and save. That way,=20
it's 7 studs and two sheets of drywall per 8'x8'=20
of wall, and $50 per 8' x 8' of ceiling, not=20
counting the pressure-treated sill plate I'm=20
planning on. At least I have a roof in the=20
meantime. That's the important part!
I salvaged a working A/C unit and a wood stove for=20
free, and I still have my old kerosene convection=20
heater. I also found a thermostat-controlled=20
electric heater on sale last summer. Don't want to=20
use it for major heat, but if I set the thermostat=20
for 33=BAF, it can kick in automatically if the=20
space drops below freezing while I'm gone.
My local hardware store is saving me a returned=20
custom glass door that they can't re-sell, and=20
that will help let window light through to the=20
back section. The kilns will live in that
unimproved section, and I'd like to put in=20
skylights back there. Anyone ever retrofitted=20
skylights to a sheet-metal roof? I know they=20
can be put in during original construction, but=20
is a retrofit possible without compromising the=20
roof?=20
I also have leaks in the roof - a rusted seam in=20
the steel. Any ideas for the best way to fix it?
This will be all very incremental, as the money=20
comes in. The big budget bite will be getting the=20
propane tank installed and filled. If I can't=20
swing that this summer, I'll wait for next=20
summer's price drop, and fire electrically in=20
the meantime.
-Snail
=20
Norman Aufrichtig on sun 11 jun 06
dear hank,
it was great to read this email as the radiant heat that was embedded into
the floor of my house when it was built has failed, as it is a true adobe
house, very hard to work on, was going to cost a small fortune to put
baseboards into it. needed another solution, found inferred heating on the
internet, thought of inferred as i have a far inferred sauna which i really
enjoy using, a great tool for health. have been trying to find out if the
cove inferred heaters would work and really keep the house worm, none of the
contractors here in taos know about them, i even checked with kit carson
electric, the local electric coop. they didn't know either, but when talking
with them about the wattage that i would be using (ten times the sq. feet)
it seems as if this system of heating will turn out to be very economical to
use. out of desperation bought a small unit which i put into the bathroom
and have been testing it. the problem is that it is summer and while it does
get cooler at night, not the best time to test, it does seem to warm the
room and i felt it would work. so, your post was very welcome as it
verified my concerns about the heaters, as its always difficult to leap into
the unknown. found a few companies that sell the radiant heaters on the
internet. the co. i am thinking of going with is radiant systems inc. the
units are about half the price of the others, www.radiantsystemsinc.com .
the heaters seems to be well made and i do feel the gentle heat coming off
it. terrific synchronicity.
thanks, norman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Murrow"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Converting a Barn to Studio
> On Jun 10, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Amanda Bohnsack wrote:
>
> > Hi All, I'm trying to add a small home studio to a room in my barn.
> > The
> > barn is fairly old, but I think has some insulation. I live in
> > upstate NY
> > so the winters are a concern. I'll need to put in some sort of heat,
> > probably not for the entire barn, but just for this one room. There's
> > also
> > no water in the barn, but the well is right out front. I'll also have
> > to
> > have it wired for the kiln. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea of
> > what all
> > this might cost? Has anyone taken on a similar project? I've read
> > some of
> > the great posts in the studio list, but didn't see much on actual cost
> > estimates. Any advice on this project would be helpful. The floor is
> > already concrete and I've got some decent windows, I'd say the room
> > itself
> > is about 20'x 25'. Thanks!
>
> Dear Amanda;
>
> Have a look on the internet for cove-type infra-red heaters. They work
> on the principle of low frequency heat waves, yet the heater itself is
> only 160F. Just like walking into the sun's rays but weaker. The
> 'secret' of using infra red heat is creating a radiant barrier
> surrounding the space. In your case, a reflecctive barrier of
> foil-lined bubble pack insulation on all surfaces except the
> floor(though under the floor works well) is required to keep the
> radiant energy bouncing around the room and not escaping through the
> surfaces. Sealing the space is not critical as you are being heated by
> the infra-red rays, not hot air. John Glick uses it, and he turned me
> on to same. Costs can be pretty low, especially if youy work with a
> heating contractor or supplier who deals in used units. There is
> nothing to wear out, so used can be a spectacular buy.
>
> Cheers, Hank
> www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/360 - Release Date: 6/9/2006
>
>
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/360 - Release Date: 6/9/2006
Brian Fistler on mon 12 jun 06
On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 12:23 -0500, Snail Scott wrote:
>
> I also have leaks in the roof - a rusted seam in
> the steel. Any ideas for the best way to fix it?
>
Snail,
Is it just a single seam that seems rusted out?
If so, I would think that a 12 or 18 inch wide section of tin/steel
roofing over the rusted seam, sealed with some roofing tar, and held in
place with roofing nails (Get the ones with the rubber washer designed
for metal roofing) would resolve your problem, at least temporarily.
Just get one section, cut it into 18" wide strips, start from the
bottom, over-lapping like shingles up the seam. Make sure the top
section is a foot or so longer than needed, and bend it over the top to
the other side.
Brian
Maurice Weitman on mon 12 jun 06
At 12:23 -0500 on 6/11/06, Snail Scott wrote:
>[..] I will go with those
>$10 fluorescent shop lights for illumination; I
>still have a half dozen saved from my last studio.
>This time, I'll put them on a wall switch instead
>of a zillion cords and adapters and plugs. I am
>gradually swapping out the old cheap tubes for
>daylight tubes, as they fail. I already have two
>windows if I use the front half of the barn as my
>space.
Hi, Snail,
If by "daylight tubes" you mean those which lamp=20
manufacturers call "daylight" I think you should=20
reconsider. For a little bit more, you can buy=20
bulbs that are closer to what is called "full=20
spectrum" and actually does a better job of=20
mimicking daylight (a moving target, admittedly=20
-- morning, noon, afternoon???).
The most normally offered fluorescent lamps are=20
cool white, warm white, and daylight, none of=20
which are really good to spend much time with.
There's all sorts of stuff written about this on=20
the web, easily found. You'll find terms like=20
Color Rendering Index and Color Temperature=20
(usually expressed in degrees Kelvin).
I, too, had to do it on the cheap and settled on=20
5000=BA K. lamps, and like you, put them in=20
standard 48", two-lamp "shop" fixtures. The=20
fixtures I bought have highly reflective shields=20
above the lamps and give off lots of nice light.=20
The lamps I chose were made by Phillips. Many=20
other manufacturers make them, too. They often=20
have "5000" in the model number.
As a side benefit, they are also very good as a=20
lighting source for photography.
I'm very happy with the light they give.
Regards,
Maurice
Norman Aufrichtig on mon 12 jun 06
hi hank,
that's impossible. my house was built to be a heat sink 12 inches of adobe
backed by 2 inches of foam then stucco, on the inside all the walls are mud,
clay, with straw imbedded in it, like dried greenware, beautiful color,
thought it would be great for a potter to live in a clay house. and it is.
lots of windows facing south. my hope is that when we have a few days of no
sun the radiant heat panels would keep the heat in the house. on normal days
the house will maintain about 70 degrees till about 2 in the morning when it
starts going into the 60's. my living room which i consider a solar battery
gets up into the high 80 by 9 am on a sunny day, no matter how cold it is
outside. but i do need some supplemental heat. by the way in the summer the
house keeps cool, no air conditioning one calling fan in the living room, an
amazing house.
i have been thinking of making a terra sigillata to paint the walls with,
could put mica in it to make it reflective,have to think about this. the
house is 16 yrs old and the clay walls are still clean, but it might be a
nice visual change.
thanks,
norman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Murrow"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Converting a Barn to Studio
> Dear Norman;
>
> Glad you found my post useful. Remember the Rule about radiant
> heat........ reflect it back before it is absorbed by the building. It
> will run much more efficiently this way. Perhaps there is an infrared
> reflective paint you could do the walls with. I used foil-covered
> bubble wrap just inside the drywall on my setup in the studio.
>
> Cheers, Hank
>
> On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Norman Aufrichtig wrote:
>
> > dear hank,
> > it was great to read this email as the radiant heat that was embedded
> > into
> > the floor of my house when it was built has failed, as it is a true
> > adobe
> > house, very hard to work on, was going to cost a small fortune to put
> > baseboards into it. needed another solution, found inferred heating on
> > the
> > internet, thought of inferred as i have a far inferred sauna which i
> > really
> > enjoy using, a great tool for health. have been trying to find out if
> > the
> > cove inferred heaters would work and really keep the house worm, none
> > of the
> > contractors here in taos know about them, i even checked with kit
> > carson
> > electric, the local electric coop. they didn't know either, but when
> > talking
> > with them about the wattage that i would be using (ten times the sq.
> > feet)
> > it seems as if this system of heating will turn out to be very
> > economical to
> > use. out of desperation bought a small unit which i put into the
> > bathroom
> > and have been testing it. the problem is that it is summer and while
> > it does
> > get cooler at night, not the best time to test, it does seem to warm
> > the
> > room and i felt it would work. so, your post was very welcome as it
> > verified my concerns about the heaters, as its always difficult to
> > leap into
> > the unknown. found a few companies that sell the radiant heaters on the
> > internet. the co. i am thinking of going with is radiant systems inc.
> > the
> > units are about half the price of the others,
> > www.radiantsystemsinc.com .
> > the heaters seems to be well made and i do feel the gentle heat coming
> > off
> > it. terrific synchronicity.
> > thanks, norman
>
>
> www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/360 - Release Date: 6/9/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/360 - Release Date: 6/9/2006
Snail Scott on mon 12 jun 06
At 11:20 AM 6/12/2006 -0500, Brian F wrote:
>Is it just a single seam that seems rusted out?
>
>If so, I would think that a 12 or 18 inch wide section of tin/steel
>roofing over the rusted seam, sealed with some roofing tar, and held in
>place with roofing nails (Get the ones with the rubber washer designed
>for metal roofing) would resolve your problem, at least temporarily.>
Yep, just one, though (oddly) on both sides of the
roof's center ridge. It's right between the roof
trusses, though, and I was concerned about walking
on the roof and doing more damage. Guess I'll have
to just get up there and see if it bends...
I may stick some flashing over the seam with tar or
a sealant, but try to skip the nails. I'm reluctant
to compromise the roof skin (more), if I can avoid
it.
Thanks for the input!
-Snail
| |
|
