Ama Menec on wed 21 jun 06
You can get frit 3110 in the UK at CTM supplies; if that's any help?
Ama Menec, Totnes, Devon, UK.
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:33:52 +1200
>Reply-To: Clayart
>From: brian
>Subject: Frit 3110
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
>
>Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
>used in the USA?
>thanks
>Brian
>--
>
>Brian Gartside
>main site http://www.gartside.info
>sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
>Pukekohe, New Zealand
>
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brian on wed 21 jun 06
Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
used in the USA?
thanks
Brian
--
Brian Gartside
main site http://www.gartside.info
sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
Pukekohe, New Zealand
Linda Ferzoco on wed 21 jun 06
Brian,
I have found this useful: http://claypeople.net/
Click on the Frit Chart to the right of the center
Linda Ferzoco
--- brian wrote:
> Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit
> 3110 that is
> used in the USA?
> thanks
> Brian
> --
>
> Brian Gartside
> main site http://www.gartside.info
> sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
> Pukekohe, New Zealand
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on wed 21 jun 06
Brian,
last time I checked, Richoux SA near Paris carried
it (3110).
http://www.cer.richoux.net/default_zone/fr/html/page-3.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:33 AM
Subject: Frit 3110
> Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the
> Frit 3110 that is
> used in the USA?
> thanks
> Brian
> --
>
> Brian Gartside
> main site http://www.gartside.info
> sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
> Pukekohe, New Zealand
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
David Hewitt on thu 22 jun 06
Brian,
Potclays 2275 or Potterycrafts P2962 are near equivalents of this high
alk frit
You may see their analyses and that of 3110 on my web site under Pottery
Techniques / 'Transporting' Recipes.
Hope this helps,
David
In message , brian writes
>Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
>used in the USA?
>thanks
>Brian
>--
>
>Brian Gartside
>main site http://www.gartside.info
>sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
>Pukekohe, New Zealand
--
David Hewitt
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Heidy Freyre on thu 22 jun 06
I live in Central Europe where the available frits have either numbers in
the 90... or a number with the letter "M". So none of the charts on the
internet are any help to me. According to my supplier the following should
be like Ferro 3110 American:
Frit M1233
0,4 Na2O
0,30 K2O
0,30 CaO
0,03 Al2O3
2,4 SiO2
I recently bought the MC6 book and was looking forward to start my first
trys of self mixed glazes. But the ferro frit ingredients seem all so
different in percentage from the ones available over here that I have lost
all confidence to start any experiments. As a beginner without chemical
knowledge it just seems too difficult to determine which frit I would need
besides some other ingredients which seem also quite different.
heidy
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:50:53 +1200, brian wrote:
>On 21/6/06 you wrote ....
>>Brian,
>>
>>last time I checked, Richoux SA near Paris carried
>>it (3110).
>
>Thanks Edouard...........but.....
>I am writing an article and needed the Europeon equivalent that was
>not Ferro...........thanks also to Des and Charles.........I should
>have made my question clearer.....
>
>Linda pointed me here....
>I have found this useful: http://claypeople.net/
>Click on the Frit Chart to the right of the center
>this is what I found..........
>lead-free frit equivalents
> ferro general pemco fusion o.hommel
>
>
> 3195 gf-115 f-2 399
> 3110 gf-134 p1vo5 f-75
> 3124 gf-113 p-311 f-19 90
> 3127 gf-118 p-1998
> 3134 gf-111 p-54 f-12 14
>
>best wishes
>
>Brian
>
>
>
>--
>
>Brian Gartside
>main site http://www.gartside.info
>sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
>Pukekohe, New Zealand
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Slatin on thu 22 jun 06
Heidy --
It is daunting at first, but the chemistry of
glazes really isn't that hard. There are three
approaches, one simple, one hard, one
educational.
Simple approach -- pick a recipe or two that you
want to experiment with that require the same
frit, and go to your dealer with the chemical
analysis of that frit. Have them special order
if necessary and sell you a test quantity of the
closest substitute they can obtain.
Hard approach -- take the analyses of the frits
that are available locally, compare them to the
analyses that you have for the frits specified in
the recipes, and calculate how much of various
other ingredients you need to doctor the local
frit to the analysis you're aiming for. Mix up a
batch and use it as an equivalent of the stuff
you want to substitute for.
Educational approach -- Take the recipe you want
to try, and reduce it to its constitutents. Take
materials that are available and re-construct the
same elements. I do *not* recommend doing this
by hand; it's difficult work and will probably
discourage you from continuing. If you use glaze
calculation software, it's fairly easy -- it can
be time-consuming, but it's pretty simple to do.
I don't know what manufacturer makes the frits
you have available locally, but I'm speculating
you're in Switzerland or near there. Likely
having Germany, France, Italy and Austria to draw
on there may be such a diversity of materials
available that your dealer only bothers to carry
a few manufacturers -- and possibly not those
well-known in the US, UK and Canada (which
nations dominate this list).
As for the analysis you gave for M-1233, it looks
to me like it's given in unity formula.
Comparing this with the unity formula for frit
3110 gives the following
Na2O .4 .643
K2O .3 .064
CaO .3 .293
Al2O3 .03 .095
B2O3 .097
SiO2 2.5 3.03
Obviously there are great differences here. For
some purposes (like fluxing action) Na2O and K2O
are quite similar (for others, like color
response, they sometimes differ). As you see, if
you add them together, they are quite close -- .7
vs. .707 -- probably close enough to make do.
And the calcium is off, but not by so terribly
much.*
Now there's less volume of fluxes in the M-1233
(this is one of the things the unity formula
doesn't show) and most of the difference is made
up with Ba2O3 and SiO2. Both of these are glass
formers, but the Ba2O3 is also a
melting-temperature adjuster. (I would call it a
flux, but some folks disagree with my simplistic
analysis.)
So no, these two frits are not the same. They
may, however, give you fairly similar results.
I'd say it's worth a try. A kilo or two won't be
too expensive, and you may discover that it gives
your work a unique appearance. If you're
concerned with glaze stability, the biggest
difference to watch is the drop in alumina (which
isn't that great) -- if you use a glaze that's
formulated more cautiously you can drop that
little bit of alumina and still have a good,
reliable glaze. To adjust for this -- should you
want to -- you'd add a little bit more clay
(kaolin, probably) and subtract a bit of silica
from your original recipe.
I hope I haven't confused you terribly. If I can
help in any way, please feel free to ask. There
are other here who may be able to put things more
simply or succinctly.
-- Steve Slatin
*If you REALLY want to be confused, I'll be happy
to harangue you on why we shouldn't use the unity
formula at all, and I'll show you other
differences here that the unity formula obscures.
--- Heidy Freyre wrote:
> I live in Central Europe where the available
> frits have either numbers in
> the 90... or a number with the letter "M". So
> none of the charts on the
> internet are any help to me. According to my
> supplier the following should
> be like Ferro 3110 American:
>
> Frit M1233
> 0,4 Na2O
> 0,30 K2O
> 0,30 CaO
> 0,03 Al2O3
> 2,4 SiO2
>
> I recently bought the MC6 book and was looking
> forward to start my first
> trys of self mixed glazes. But the ferro frit
> ingredients seem all so
> different in percentage from the ones available
> over here that I have lost
> all confidence to start any experiments. As a
> beginner without chemical
> knowledge it just seems too difficult to
> determine which frit I would need
> besides some other ingredients which seem also
> quite different.
>
> heidy
>
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:50:53 +1200, brian
> wrote:
>
> >On 21/6/06 you wrote ....
> >>Brian,
> >>
> >>last time I checked, Richoux SA near Paris
> carried
> >>it (3110).
> >
> >Thanks Edouard...........but.....
> >I am writing an article and needed the
> Europeon equivalent that was
> >not Ferro...........thanks also to Des and
> Charles.........I should
> >have made my question clearer.....
> >
> >Linda pointed me here....
> >I have found this useful:
> http://claypeople.net/
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Taylor Hendrix on thu 22 jun 06
Heidy,
Don't be discouraged. You have a good book there. Understand the
basics of that book and you are on your way to understanding one way
to develope glazes. As for the differences in frits....hmm. If you
have a glaze calculation program, No problemo. Trust me. The only
reason Ron or John or Lili or Sue use Ferro Frit XYZ is because it has
something in it they want. Let Ron and John run down the whys of the
different frits in their book. Maybe you want a high boron frit or an
insoluable alk frit. Some frits run low in Al so you can keep from
overshooting your Al once you add your clay, etc, etc, etc.
I say pick some local frits, keeping in mind the fluxing mixture you
want for your particular glaze and go from there. Don't try to
'duplicate' the practice glazes from their book. Instead use the
underlying ideas of the glazes (translucent base, alk base, matt,
Cr/Sn pink, etc.) and build your own.
I bet that Ron will offer to help you sub some of your European frits
into some of the book's recipies too. How much you wana bet?
Good luck and good fires,
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 6/22/06, Heidy Freyre wrote:
...
> I recently bought the MC6 book and was looking forward to start my first
> trys of self mixed glazes. But the ferro frit ingredients seem all so
> different in percentage from the ones available over here that I have lost
> all confidence to start any experiments. As a beginner without chemical
> knowledge it just seems too difficult to determine which frit I would need
> besides some other ingredients which seem also quite different.
...
John Hesselberth on thu 22 jun 06
On Jun 22, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Heidy Freyre wrote:
> I recently bought the MC6 book and was looking forward to start my
> first
> trys of self mixed glazes. But the ferro frit ingredients seem all so
> different in percentage from the ones available over here that I
> have lost
> all confidence to start any experiments.
Hi Heidy,
Don't lose hope. Send Ron or me the compositions of the frits you
have available in addition to M1233 and the glazes you would like to
try first and we will help you convert them to use your frits. We
have been doing this for people all over the world and are always
happy to help. Ron can be reached at ronroy@ca.inter.net and i can be
reached at john@frogpondpottery.com
Regards,
John
Des & Jan Howard on thu 22 jun 06
Brian
USA Ferro Frit 3110
UK Ferro Frit 3110
Oz Ferro Frit 4110
Na2O 15.31
K2o 2.54
CaO 6.13
B2O3 2.68
Al2O3 4.2
SiO2 69.15
(Daly 'Glazing and Glazing Techniques')
Des
brian wrote:
> Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
> used in the USA?
> thanks
> Brian
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Russel Fouts on thu 22 jun 06
Brian,
>> Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
used in the USA? <<
The European/UK substitute for Ferro Frit 3110 is Ferro Frit 3110. ;-)
There are several suppliers in the UK, PotClays for one. I think Bath
Potters also carries it.
I'ved recently heard that it's available in Belgium. I think at
Colpaert in Gent but I can check for sure.
Does this mean you're bringing your gum boots to Europe for a workshop? Where?
Russel
Russel Fouts
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brian on thu 22 jun 06
On 21/6/06 you wrote ....
>Brian,
>
>last time I checked, Richoux SA near Paris carried
>it (3110).
Thanks Edouard...........but.....
I am writing an article and needed the Europeon equivalent that was
not Ferro...........thanks also to Des and Charles.........I should
have made my question clearer.....
Linda pointed me here....
I have found this useful: http://claypeople.net/
Click on the Frit Chart to the right of the center
this is what I found..........
lead-free frit equivalents
ferro general pemco fusion o.hommel
3195 gf-115 f-2 399
3110 gf-134 p1vo5 f-75
3124 gf-113 p-311 f-19 90
3127 gf-118 p-1998
3134 gf-111 p-54 f-12 14
best wishes
Brian
--
Brian Gartside
main site http://www.gartside.info
sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
Pukekohe, New Zealand
Johanna De Maine on thu 22 jun 06
Hi Brian
As far as I can work out Ferro frit 3110 is the same soft sodium
borosilicate frit Ferro 3110 as list on Potterycrafts UK site which is now
part of the Imerys conglomerate and it is listed there. In Australia the
same frit is known as Ferro 4110.
Hope this helps
Johanna De Maine
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, 21 June 2006 6:34 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Frit 3110
Does anyone know the UK/Europe eqivalent of the Frit 3110 that is
used in the USA?
thanks
Brian
--
Brian Gartside
main site http://www.gartside.info
sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
Pukekohe, New Zealand
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
brian on fri 23 jun 06
On 22/6/06 Russel Fouts wrote ....
>
>The European/UK substitute for Ferro Frit 3110 is Ferro Frit 3110. ;-)
>
>snip......
>Does this mean you're bringing your gum boots to Europe for a workshop? Where?
Russel.I should have explained more clearly.
I am in the process of compiling a cd on the topic of "glaze
texture", previously known as "gumboot glazing" (hence your reference
:-D ). It is an extension of the texture charts I have printed and
which are popular amongst the more adventurous.
I am making notes to accompany the images and want to make the whole
project available to others who do not live in the USA.
The two frits most commonly used in my own experience are the Ferro
3110 and 3134
Here in the antipodes they are ferro 4110 and 4108.
numbers numbers.........and so it goes..........
This morning Heidy from Central Europe sent me an alkali frit that
they use in CH. (?) and already have Potclays 2275 or Potterycrafts
P2962 (thanks David)
Fortunately in my methods for obtaining glaze texture precise frit
formulae are not required.
Thank goodness I am only dealing with two frits
Thanks to several readers of this forum I have gathered good information.
I might be coming to Europe next year.....It would be great to
"workshop" there but in the past has not proven to be so accessible
as the USA, 'any ideas?.
Thanks Russel, do you mind asking your supplier about the 3134
approx. eqivalent
Brian
--
Brian Gartside
main site http://www.gartside.info
sales/store http://gartsidesignz.com
Pukekohe, New Zealand
Ron Roy on sat 24 jun 06
Hello Hiedy,
As John said - we can help.
First I need to be sure the Seger formula you sent (below) is correct - no
B2O3 - right?
As you can see from my comparison of the two frits - using the Seger
formula you posted - they are somewhat different - which may not make a big
difference in some glazes - but may in others.
Frit 3110
Na2O - 15.3
K2O - 2.3
CaO - 6.3
B2O3 - 2.6 - none in M1233 right?
Al2O3 - 3.7 - less in M1233
SiO2 - 69.8
Total - 100.0
Analysis for M1233 as derived from Seger formula.
Na2O - 11.3
K2O - 13.1
CaO - 7.8
B2O3 - none
Al2O3 -1.4
SiO2 - 66.4
Total - 100.0
Certainly workable if you can find some other frits with some boron in them
- look for frits with 25 to 30% boron - see if you can get the analysis for
them - if not get the Seger formula - I can work back from that.
Getting a frit that is close to Ferro 3134 would be best as it is in most
of our glazes.
RR
>I live in Central Europe where the available frits have either numbers in
>the 90... or a number with the letter "M". So none of the charts on the
>internet are any help to me. According to my supplier the following should
>be like Ferro 3110 American:
>
>Frit M1233
>0,4 Na2O
>0,30 K2O
>0,30 CaO
>0,03 Al2O3
>2,4 SiO2
>
>I recently bought the MC6 book and was looking forward to start my first
>trys of self mixed glazes. But the ferro frit ingredients seem all so
>different in percentage from the ones available over here that I have lost
>all confidence to start any experiments. As a beginner without chemical
>knowledge it just seems too difficult to determine which frit I would need
>besides some other ingredients which seem also quite different.
>
>heidy
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
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