Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on thu 29 jun 06
On Jun 29, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Forest Butera wrote:
> I recently got a Paragon 1193 test kiln with a Sentry xpress 4.0
> controller and a Skutt envirovent 2. The initial testing firing to
> cone 1
> went ok, as did my first bisque firing to 04. Today I've been trying
> (since 4am) to fire to cone 6 and it just isn't happening.
Do you have adequate amperage? That's what it sounds like.
The fact that turning off another electric appliance helped makes me
suspicious. I wonder if your line really is dedicated; if so, another
appliance shouldn't affect it. If it isn't dedicated, you can lose
amperage when you use something else.
Also, is it a new or used kiln? If it's used, it may be time to replace
elements. My kiln does exactly that when the elements are shot.
Good luck--Lynn
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
548 Court St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-858-6920
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Forest Butera on thu 29 jun 06
I recently got a Paragon 1193 test kiln with a Sentry xpress 4.0
controller and a Skutt envirovent 2. The initial testing firing to cone 1
went ok, as did my first bisque firing to 04. Today I've been trying
(since 4am) to fire to cone 6 and it just isn't happening. First try it
got to 1648F then cut off with an error "fired too long". I called
Paragon, they said try again (I figured why not, my test tiles are already
ruined). Same thing happened on the second try at 2054. Both of these
were "ramp hold" firings. (I read the settings off to Paragon and they
said I did it right - maybe there's something wrong with the relays in the
kiln).
I tried a third time, this time with "cone fire" since that's more
straight forward. It got up to 2089 and wouldn't go any further. I turned
off my air conditioner and it started creeping up again - only 38 degrees
in the last hour. (It is on a dedicated circuit, but beyond that I do not
know much about electricity). When it got to 2127 there was a popping
noise from the kiln and the lid popped up about 3/16" and stayed that way.
There was enough of a gap that there was a bright orange line shining on
the wall from the glow. That freaked me out so I turned it off. I've been
doing pottery about 3 1/2 years at a studio where I rent space. This was
my first firing on my own. Now what?
Deborah Woods on sat 1 jul 06
Hi Forest. I am only guessing here from my experience. One, I agree, make
sure that your kiln is on its own circuit, meaning that there should be
nothing else running on it. If you shut the circuit off, it shouldn't shut
anything else off in your house. make sure that you are using a circuit
breaker with a high enough amperage. I am guessing, based on my test kiln
it might need a 30 amp circuit breaker. Also, I don't know how powerful the
skutt envirovent 2 is, but I think it is designed for a larger kiln than a
test kiln. Early on in the firing, maybe not such a big deal, but kilns
struggle hard for the last few hundred degrees, and if you have a fan
sucking all that heat out of the kiln, it will make it nearly impossible to
reach temp. I share my vent between my test kiln and large kiln, and when I
reach maybe 1800 degrees or so, I shut the kiln vent off and turn on my wall
vent for ventilation. By then I think most of the volatiles have burned
out. The one time I did not do this my kiln was helpless in the end until I
finally shut it off (I was experimenting to see if it would make a
difference). My kiln surged forward in temperature like it was Superman. I
also add washers for spacers to get the vent hose a little farther from the
kiln to reduce suction. Its a little kiln after all. Try shutting off your
kiln after 1800 degrees and see what happens. Let me know.
Deborah Woods on sat 1 jul 06
A little adendum to my post. I should have proof read first. I do not shut
the kiln off to make it surge forward in temp obviously, but just the vent.
I wrote to shut the kiln off. Well that wouldnt work would it?
Deborah Woods on tue 4 jul 06
Okay. I know you might think I am a stalker by now but I've been thinking
about your problem. On top of what I already posted, make sure you also
have the correct gauge wire. It is unlikely that the standard wire for
normal outlets is sufficient. For example, for my test kiln I needed 10
gauge wire. However, and this is important, because my kiln is located 75
feet away from the main breaker box I needed to drop down another gauge to 8
gauge wire. The reason for this is that without the correct size wire, you
will get a voltage drop at the end of the line and you will not have enough
power. Without the correct size gauge wire you risk overloading or
straining your wire and risk an electrical fire. So just check everything.
And I don't know how large your test kiln is (mine is .80 cu. ft.) but
unless yours is at least 2-3 cu.ft. your fan is probably too powerful for
the kiln. Alright, sorry to bug you again, but I just went through all this
so I wanted to help. Good Luck.
Arnold Howard on wed 5 jul 06
From: "Forest Butera"
> I tried a third time, this time with "cone fire" since
> that's more
> straight forward. It got up to 2089 and wouldn't go any
> further. I turned
> off my air conditioner and it started creeping up again -
> only 38 degrees
> in the last hour. (It is on a dedicated circuit, but
> beyond that I do not
> know much about electricity). When it got to 2127 there
> was a popping
> noise from the kiln and the lid popped up about 3/16" and
> stayed that way.
> There was enough of a gap that there was a bright orange
> line shining on
> the wall from the glow. That freaked me out so I turned it
> off.
I am sorry you are having a problem with your new Paragon
kiln.
As someone else suggested, you may have low voltage. This is
a common problem in some areas, especially during the summer
when air conditioners are running. Have you tried checking
the voltage under load with a voltmeter?
When the kiln is cold, lift the back of the lid. Can you
feel play in the hinge? The hinge rod passes through oblong
holes that allow for expansion of the lid during firing.
Unless the hinge is binding in some way, the lid will float
at high temperatures.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Forest Butera on thu 20 jul 06
>>I am sorry you are having a problem with your new Paragon
kiln.
As someone else suggested, you may have low voltage. This is
a common problem in some areas, especially during the summer
when air conditioners are running. Have you tried checking
the voltage under load with a voltmeter?
When the kiln is cold, lift the back of the lid. Can you
feel play in the hinge? The hinge rod passes through oblong
holes that allow for expansion of the lid during firing.
Unless the hinge is binding in some way, the lid will float
at high temperatures.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com <<
It turned out that the controller board was effective. The amperage and
voltage checked out fine. Paragon sent me a new one, but I am still having
trouble. I did a ramp/hold firing to test the new controller for cone 6.
The temperature increased almost exactly as it should have according to
the program and completed on the exact temperature. However when I checked
the cones the next day cone 5 and 6 were practially puddles and cone 7 was
almost as bad. At the suggestion of a Paragon tech I'm doing another test
fire today with a simple 500 degrees an hour up to 1960.
I am wondering now about the lid and/or the Envirovent. Is it possible the
gap between the lid and the kiln is letting in too much air which is
affecting the firing somehow?
Its a little frustrating having this great new kiln but all these problems.
Forest
Forest Butera on thu 20 jul 06
I just got the error "fired too long" again during a test fire of my
second controller. I felt the plug of the kiln where it plugs into the
outlet and it was rather warm. The elctrician used 10 gauge wire, whereas
the instructions for this test kiln only called for 12. I didn't read
Deborah's message about turning off the kiln vent until it was up to 2030
F and struggling, so I turned it off immediately. That didn't seem to help
and I got the "fired too long" error and it turned off. The program
Paragon had me doing was firing 500 F per hour up to 2199.
I tracked the rate of temperature increase hour by hour:
1st hour: 493, 2nd: 500, 3rd: 488; 4th: 267; 5th 134; 6th: 70; 11 minutes
later it failed.
The amerperage and voltage have checked out ok at the main breaker box.
I'm going to get the parts I need to make checking it right at where the
kiln plugs in possible.
Forest
Arnold Howard on fri 21 jul 06
From: "Forest Butera"
> The amerperage and voltage have checked out ok at the main
> breaker box.
> I'm going to get the parts I need to make checking it
> right at where the
> kiln plugs in possible.
Forest, did you check the voltage while the kiln was firing?
Sometimes it drops only after you turn on the kiln.
Did the relay continue clicking as the kiln slowed down? If
so, then low voltage is not the problem.
After you check voltage under load, then check amperage and
compare it to the kiln's rated amperage.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Forest Butera on fri 21 jul 06
>>Forest, did you check the voltage while the kiln was firing?
Sometimes it drops only after you turn on the kiln.
Did the relay continue clicking as the kiln slowed down? If
so, then low voltage is not the problem.
After you check voltage under load, then check amperage and
compare it to the kiln's rated amperage.
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com<<
I checked the voltage and amperage repeatedly during a test firing right
up until it failed. It was fairly steady the whole time and when I
reported the results to the Paragon tech she said they were fine which is
why they sent me a new controller board. The most recent test was with the
new controller board. Someone suggested checking the voltage and amperage
where the kiln plugs in rather than the main electric panel. I'm not sure
how to do that since there's just the one outlet into which the kiln
plugs. The kiln is about 40 feet from the main box. And yes, the clicking
continues right up until it completes or fails.
Forest
Deborah Woods on fri 21 jul 06
Hi Forrest. I am sorry you are still having problems. Um, am I reading
you correctly, Your kiln failed in the 6th hour with a message saying too
long? I assume you are going to cone 6? From my understanding, 6 hours to
cone 6 is NOT a long time. It is actually a fast firing in an electric
kiln. My test kiln takes about 9 1/2 hours or so on medium speed to reach
cone 6. If I program it for slow it is more like 12 or something. There
really might be something wrong with your kiln.
But, I have another idea. Your kiln can not climb 500 degrees an hour
towards the end. It's impossible. Maybe try reprogramming it so that you
have the rate of climb lower towards the end of the firing. More like 125
degrees an hour since it won't go faster anyway. It might take longer
because your kiln won't be on full power the entire time. But maybe you
won't be stressing the kiln out as much.
I would still shut your vent off towards the end. By 1850 degrees or so.
I really believe that makes a huge difference with my kiln. I just don't
think it should be so hard to keep the kiln from shutting off though. Don't
waste too much time before you consider talking with the company about
returning or replacing the kiln. Good Luck.
Debbie
MadMud Pottery
Forest Butera on sun 23 jul 06
>>Hi Forrest. I am sorry you are still having problems. Um, am I reading
you correctly, Your kiln failed in the 6th hour with a message saying too
long? I assume you are going to cone 6? From my understanding, 6 hours to
cone 6 is NOT a long time. It is actually a fast firing in an electric
kiln. <<
This was just a test suggested by paragon to see if it would go to cone 6,
not an actual cone 6 firing.
>> But, I have another idea. Your kiln can not climb 500 degrees an hour
towards the end. It's impossible. Maybe try reprogramming it so that you
have the rate of climb lower towards the end of the firing. More like 125
degrees an hour since it won't go faster anyway. It might take longer
because your kiln won't be on full power the entire time. But maybe you
won't be stressing the kiln out as much.<<
The original program I used was copied from the medium speed cone 6 out of
the controller guide and it failed even with that.
>> I would still shut your vent off towards the end. By 1850 degrees or
so. I really believe that makes a huge difference with my kiln. I just
don't think it should be so hard to keep the kiln from shutting off
though. Don't waste too much time before you consider talking with the
company about returning or replacing the kiln. Good Luck<<
I saw your suggestion so decided to leave the vent off completely for this
last test since I only had one test tile and some cones in there anyway.
It doesn't seem to have helped any to leave it off, but I can see where
that may make a difference if I ever solve whatever else is going on.
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