Paul Herman on mon 10 jul 06
OK John,
Here's a stick back at you.
"Lazy, sloppy, forgetful", huh? Rest assured, we are none of those
(most of the time).
I think you are trying to impose your own personal belief system on
the clayart world at large. I'm thinking about when you try to impose
certain terms on the discussion, like "stable" and then almost demand
that everyone else bow to your term. If you believe glaze recipes
should be published in a certain way, by all means do it. If everyone
thinks it's a great idea, they will surely pick up on it. But if you
expect anyone to follow you through coercion or fear mongering, well
you got another think coming. Domination won't work in this context.
You are dealing with independent artists, not conscripts. We aren't
babies, and you should stop trying to infantilize us.
All my glaze recipes come with "your milage may vary" attached. Even
if it's not written, please keep that in mind, and apply it to all
the recipes I post. You should be able to remember that. I'm counting
on people here on the list to have the intelligence to be able to go
from there. So, even though I could tell you the PH of my water, I
won't because I think it's stupid to do so.
It seems like you have a need to stir things up every once in a
while, and make disparaging comments about other potters. That's too
bad, and I believe it reflects your own dissatisfaction with your own
work. I suggest you go back to the shop, and do some work that is NOT
fired to cone six in a computer controlled electric kiln. You're in a
rut. Try wood fired salt glazes, they're a hoot! If you keep doing
the same thing, it will get stale and boring. Then you start finger
pointing, and saying "Look, there's a problem, over THERE!"
Is that an effective way to address the real problem? It would
probably be more rewarding if you stirred things up in you own shop.
You need a challenge.
So to finish off, I offer a glaze recipe to you and the community at
large. And John, don't think you can eviscerate it, have an inquest
over it, pick it apart, accuse me of poisoning my customers, or any
of that crap. It won't work. Some of the ingredients are unknown to
you, so criticism is beyond your reach. I set it up that way, just
for you. But I hope you try the glaze anyway.
cone 10
Black Pozzolan* Glaze (*hint: pozzolan is a volcanic ash material)
raw pozzolan 33.75
calcined pozzolan 33.75
wood ash 22.5
ball clay 10
ADD:
red iron oxide .66
chrome oxide .66
manganese dioxide .66
(note: runs more under salt)
Good luck,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
>> John said:
>> So far, the reasons that I can come up with, that seem to compute,
>> are ones I hope are not true. Are we really a lazy, sloppy, and/or
>> forgetful bunch of people? Can someone help me and provide good,
>> logical reasons why we communicate glaze recipes with so little
>> accompanying information. I would hate to be left with sloppiness,
>> laziness, and forgetfulness.
>>
>> Just feeling liking poking a stick at things today....John
>
John Hesselberth on mon 10 jul 06
Hi Everyone,
We often draw analogies between or comparisons to the content and =20
format of glaze recipes and food recipes here on Clayart and =20
elsewhere. But there is one distinct difference which puzzles me.
EVERY food recipe not only is a list of ingredients, but also a =20
descriptive paragraph or two of how to combine and cook those =20
ingredients including things like preparation of the ingredients, the =20=
order of using them, cooking times and instructions, sizes of pans, =20
etc. A food recipe would be considered incomplete without that =20
descriptive paragraph. It would not be published without it.
Nearly every glaze recipe on Clayart or published in magazines is a =20
simple list of ingredients plus the cone. The word reduction or =20
oxidation is sometimes added. But rarely is there a descriptive =20
paragraph telling things like thickness of application, specific =20
gravity, firing schedules, details of reduction/oxidation, =20
suitability for what kind of ware or clay body, etc. Nor is the unity =20=
formula published except on rare occasion. Trying to get additional =20
information published about glaze recipes is very difficult.
So my question is: Why not??? Is it that:
=95 Glazes are simpler than food to mix, apply, fire? Not likely in my =20=
opinion.
=95 The descriptive paragraph is really not needed for food recipes--=20
editors are just trying to fill space because they have so little =20
worthwhile to print. I kind of doubt this--editors usually have much =20
more material they would like to print than they have space available.
=95 We potters are lazy? A possibility, I guess.
=95 We are secretive--i.e. we really don't want others to be successful =20=
with our glazes? Well, probably not consciously.
=95 We just plain sloppy and/or forgetful? I guess that is related to =20=
laziness--another possibility.
So far, the reasons that I can come up with, that seem to compute, =20
are ones I hope are not true. Are we really a lazy, sloppy, and/or =20
forgetful bunch of people? Can someone help me and provide good, =20
logical reasons why we communicate glaze recipes with so little =20
accompanying information. I would hate to be left with sloppiness, =20
laziness, and forgetfulness.
Just feeling liking poking a stick at things today....John=
Gene & Dolita Dohrman on mon 10 jul 06
First off, dear John, I don't think any potter who shares a glaze recipe and
omits detailed instructions as to how to fire it is lazy, secretive, or
sloppy. (You sure do know how to stir things up!) Actually, I feel they are
being quite generous in sharing the recipe in the first place. There are so
many variables involved...application, firing schedule, chemical source,
clay body, etc. that it is really almost impossible to duplicate anyone
else's results. Therein lies the beauty of it! It is up to the recipient
to
test that glaze in the environs of their own studio. I have your book and
mix up 'test' batches of particular glazes in which I am interested even
though I know yours have been tested under many variables.
As we have all experienced, a 5 gallon bucket of a favorite glaze worked
beautifully but upon mixing up another 5 gallon bucket, something goes awry
(a new chemical source maybe) and is not discovered till the kiln is opened.
So...I believe it is not the glaze recipe donor who is lacking here, it is
the person who wants everyone else to do the testing for them and deliver
the perfect glaze in a perfect little package.
Ooooh, now I have done it! Poke, poke!
Dolita
John said:
So far, the reasons that I can come up with, that seem to compute,
are ones I hope are not true. Are we really a lazy, sloppy, and/or
forgetful bunch of people? Can someone help me and provide good,
logical reasons why we communicate glaze recipes with so little
accompanying information. I would hate to be left with sloppiness,
laziness, and forgetfulness.
Just feeling liking poking a stick at things today....John
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/06
Andi Fasimpaur on mon 10 jul 06
At 08:15 AM 7/10/2006, John Hesselberth wrote:
>So far, the reasons that I can come up with, that seem to compute,
>are ones I hope are not true. Are we really a lazy, sloppy, and/or
>forgetful bunch of people? Can someone help me and provide good,
>logical reasons why we communicate glaze recipes with so little
>accompanying information. I would hate to be left with sloppiness,
>laziness, and forgetfulness.
The truth is that publishing food recipes with the kind of instructions you
described is a fairly recent innovation. If you look at early published
recipes, they were often just lists of ingredients. It was generally
assumed that the person following the recipe knew enough to sift the flour
or beat the eggs as appropriate.
When I started working as a studio monitor, I inherited a notebook with
scrawled recipes for glazes. The people writing those recipes down knew
what they were doing when they mixed the glazes. They knew that they should
screen this ingredient or put the glazed ware in a cool spot in the kiln.
What they were writing down was a reminder to themselves of proportion. It
wasn't about ensuring that the next person who needed to mix the glaze
could duplicate their results. I'm sure that if asked, they would have
thought that the next person would pick up what they needed to know by
observation. In a few cases, there were little notes scrawled next to the
glaze recipe in another hand that said "screen X before adding" or "looks
best if fired in coolest part of kiln."
Like early published food recipes, we have not adopted the convention of
recording the additional information. We pass on the basics with the
assumption that anyone mixing their own glazes will know their available
materials well enough to know what needs to be sifted and what should be
beaten. We hope that the people using the glazes will know their kiln and
their clay and will experiment with ramp speeds and cooling and placement
in the kiln, etc...
You and Ron made an important step toward changing the conventions with
Mastering Cone 6 Glazes. The problem is, most published recipes are the
equivalent of pulling Great Aunt Bessie's Blue Ribbon Pie recipe from a
dusty old card file and typing it into an email... We just get the written
ingredient list that was never really meant to do anything more than jog
the memory of someone who already knew what they were doing.
I look forward to seeing the glaze recipe conventions change. Perhaps we
should lobby the editors of the books and magazines to ask for more
information about the glazes before they publish the recipes.
Be well,
Andi Fasimpaur
In Ohio, where the toddler is keeping me busy and my husband is slowly
setting up the computer that I need for my next big project.
http://www.mysticspiral.com
Alisa Liskin Clausen on mon 10 jul 06
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:57:59 -0400, Gene & Dolita Dohrman
wrote:
>First off, dear John, I don't think any potter who shares a glaze recipe
and
>omits detailed instructions as to how to fire it is lazy, secretive, or
>sloppy. .
>So...I believe it is not the glaze recipe donor who is lacking here, it is
>the person who wants everyone else to do the testing for them and deliver
>the perfect glaze in a perfect little package.
> >Dolita
>
>John said:
>So far, the reasons that I can come up with, that seem to compute,
>are ones I hope are not true. Are we really a lazy, sloppy, and/or
>forgetful bunch of people? Can someone help me and provide good,
>logical reasons why we communicate glaze recipes with so little
>accompanying information. I would hate to be left with sloppiness,
>laziness, and forgetfulness.
>
>Just feeling liking poking a stick at things today....John
>
>
Dear John,
I think your queries were answered in many different ways the first time
you presented the idea that people who would like to report glaze testing,
conform to a specific format. I would resend my response, but it of course
in the archives.
Yes, I think that your post is taunting. However, since we of course know
each other in a sense and I think we agree that Clayart is about dialogue,
I will openly write my general thoughts.
You once wrote that there are people who get it and the rest don't. I do
not think that is a true way to define people who use other methods than
the ones you suggest. Your suggestions are outstanding, but if we do not
follow through, it does not make us non getters John! There is space for
everyone and their approaches.
I use a consistent format to report glazes, including what I feel is
necessary to give a person a reasonable place to jump start testing the
given recipe.
Recipe sharing is one way to encourage people to start making their own
glazes. This is a good thing. People write to me all of the time, that
they tested this and that, and what do I think about their result, how it
compares to my result, etc. We have a dialogue about getting the glaze to
do what they want it to, (and here it comes again!), on their clay, in
their kiln.
People who want recipes do not necessarily need all of the information you
propose. That is because, in my opinion, even with all the information
about a single recipe I could remember and have the energy to concisely
write about, I know it would still lack something for someone. I cannot
test a glaze on everyone else's clay, fire it in their kiln or fullfill
the many other variables. Now we are back to the first post, suggesting
formatting recipe sharing and glaze reports after an approved Clayart
format. You know it does not work out like that. Not because of short
comings, but because individuals have different methods they think are
good.
You wrote an excellent book and we, among many others, on Clayart have
liberally praised both you and Ron. A source of valuable information
shared in the book. I look forward to your future endeavors. MC6G is in
my reference library, well ear marked, along side other good books on the
subject of glaze chemistry.
I will say that I think adding the unity formula is a plus for the reasons
of people in different geographic areas able to obtain the materials
locally, making the reicpe a good traveler. However, I do not include it.
The reason I do not include it is not answered by lazy, forgetful or
sloppy or, I am sorry John, the word that really raised my eyebrow,
secretive. I do not because at this point in time, I do not. I could and
might and one day I will, when I change my format when I feel I want to.
So many people have glaze calc. programs, they can easily obtain the unity
formula.
Honestly, I again, hope that we do not get so modern that we make simple
exchanging of glaze recipes or test reports into an elitest club, where
one must confine to the club's rules in order to participate. It would be
obviously a wonderful thing, if giving glaze recipes including all of the
requirements you suggest would ensure a first and every time good result.
But it won't. That is not what you suggest, but it mihgt come closer to
success if we added all we could. Even all of the recipes generated by
careful and knowledgeable consideration from glaze calculation programs,
are not a guarentee for success. Is it a great start? Yes, absolutely.
Would giving as much information as possible along with a recipe be as
much as a good help? Yes, again, absolutely. But should it be the rule
because otherwise we are irresponsible or some such other negative idea?
I do not think it should be.
The same for publications. Suggest what you think is a good format and
perhaps they will think it is good enough to use. If a reader wants to
submit a recipe but does not have access to unity formula, they could be
given a list of people who can convert it for them. More team work. I
never liked the idea you suggested of those who get it and those who do
not. People are at different places in the learning curve and everyone
should be encouraged, not potentially insulted, intimidated and ultimately
discouraged. No, that is not we what we want, of course not. We want
people to do what they can, and very importantly, keep doing something.
I think an important idea behind each person sharing glaze recipes is that
they do it their way and that should be all right. A second important
reason is it shares information in a way to entice people to get involved
in our craft and processes.
Best regards from Alisa in Denmark
Fred Parker on tue 11 jul 06
Hello, John.
Well, you managed to hit a nerve with this one. In the back of my mind, I
suppose I've wondered why it hasn't been a topic of discussion before...
I am a relative newbie to clay and glazes. That does not mean I just fell
off the turnip wagon re other subjects, having enjoyed a career in
architecture and before that, having studied chemistry and chemical
engineering for three years prior to deciding I wanted a career in an arts-
related field.
In my short adventure into clay and glazes I have been puzzled by a single
question: with all the exposure I have had to chemistry and chemical
engineering, and with all the books I have read on glazing (including
yours), and with all the test glazes I have mixed and tried (I'd
guestimate around a hundred at this point), why does glaze "chemistry"
still seem like voodoo to me?
I can recall my days, many moons back, sitting in class figuring out how
many parts per billion of something or other was in a test sample, or
calculating the amount of fly ash released from a stack, or proving that a
jet engine runs better at altitude than ground level -- and I remember
actually understanding the effects of variables on those outcomes. Yet I
completely lack any intuitive sense of how dolomite affects a glaze or how
wollostonite changes the world.
After much pondering, I believe I am beginning to understand why.
Back during my days in classrooms calculating fly ash release I had a
pretty complete picture of what was going into the boilers to produce it.
Analysis of the fuel provided a fairly complete picture. Ditto for the
quantitative chemistry calculations. Through analysis -- or as a "given" -
- I knew exactly what was reacting with what, and how much.
With glazes, it's all different. Nothing is just calcium,or manganese or
sodium. It might have a preponderance of this in it, but depending on
where it came from it can have lots more, as everyone knows. For my
limited mental capacity, this makes it impossible to be exact in
calculating outcome via the stoichiometric methods that worked in
college. So, the bottom line is, going into a glaze adventure, at best I
only have a rough estimate of where I'm headed.
Compound these unknowns with a complete dearth of reaction conditions --
including physical application method, reactive content of the clay being
glazed, firing profiles and so forth and at best a glaze recipe is little
more than pointing a bony finger down a dusty fork in the road.
Hell, I can't even get the same glaze result from the bottom to the middle
of the kiln I use. How could I even imagine I'd get the same final result
someone else got just by combining the same ingredients.
Well, that gives me an idea -- and a good one! You and John did a pretty
good job at explaining ^6 glazes. How about coming up with a universal
format for communicating glazes -- one that takes some of the other
variables into consideration?! If anyone can do it, you can. Who
knows?! It might actually start something...
Enough ranting for now.
Fred Parker
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:15:41 -0400, John Hesselberth
wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>We often draw analogies between or comparisons to the content and
>format of glaze recipes and food recipes here on Clayart and
>elsewhere. But there is one distinct difference which puzzles me.
>
>EVERY food recipe not only is a list of ingredients, but also a
>descriptive paragraph or two of how to combine and cook those
>ingredients including things like preparation of the ingredients, the
>order of using them, cooking times and instructions, sizes of pans,
>etc. A food recipe would be considered incomplete without that
>descriptive paragraph. It would not be published without it...
>
Linda - Pacifica on tue 11 jul 06
I'm going to agree with John about glaze recipes. It wouldn't be so hard to include a firing schedule, with O/R info, for each glaze. Certainly there are other factors for some glazes, such as the crazy boron crystals we've recently heard about or the need for distilled water sometimes, but those could be footnotes.
As proof of how much we all like this system, I cite how much we all have learned from MC6G and from Alisa's wonderful work. Bless her, she always gives us the firing info, so at least you have a much higher jumping off point if you want to try to duplicate what she has posted. And how about Mel's revelations with last year's glaze project? And John Britt's work with cone 10 glazes?
I rest my case.
When I finally get that test kiln firing, I'll follow their lead
Cheers, Linda F, Pacifica
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 11 jul 06
I am of the opinion to teach people to catch a fish rather than to give =
a
fish and I also believe in individuality. For that reason I will always =
use
the basic of a glaze and start applying my own twist to it. I can =
understand
that people that want to stay followers of the rest of the crowd will =
get
upset if they are not spoon-fed, but as I've said many moons ago (and =
got my
head chopped of for that): I do not think it is fair to give away a =
recipe
and all the tricks around that if you worked hard to get it. The minute =
that
you do that, you open up the opportunity for copycats (which I see too =
often
in books and magazines) and you make your own competition stiffer. Teach
students to explore. What are the chances of discovering something =
wonderful
by not sticking to the old proven way? All recipes are discovered. Move
outside the box and discover a different aspect of your product.=20
=20
=20
=20
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
John Post on tue 11 jul 06
If you want to change the way potters report glazes then maybe a tool
needs to be developed to make things simpler.
A way to do this would be to develop on on line form and database for
entering glaze descriptions along with firing conditions. You could
check things off from drop down lists and then enter unique information
in text boxes... then when you get all done, you could press a button
that would create an email to clay art that would include all of the
relevant fields from your glaze description. Voila! instant publishing.
For the average computer user, (those that don't know tons of shortcut
keys and programming tricks) you would be creating an on line glaze
chemistry and database. Charge a fee to join or keep it free. It would
be a lot of work, but it could be done... there are a million things to
think about for anyone undertaking a project like this, but software
doesn't have to be installed on everyone's computer to make this work.
Keep all of the software on the server and have users from all over the
world access it through the web. I know there is the SDSU glaze
database, but that's old now.
Users could have their own individual databases that hold the names and
formulas for the individual glazes and glaze components they use. Axner
or Laguna could post the analysis of the raw materials they buy and you
could just select Neph. Sy from Axner as an ingredient in your database
and then save all your selections...
You could also have people create unique user names and passwords.
Users could press another button to update their on line glaze and
material databases. They could make their database or individual
recipes private or choose a Britt button to make their glaze recipes and
materials lists public.
I think software will become more web based as we go. The school
district that I teach in recently switched to an email program that is
all web based.
Just tossing some thoughts out there....
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
John Post on tue 11 jul 06
The best glaze recipes I ever had were crap.
I got them in my first pottery class at a local community college.
They gelled in the bucket, were hard to apply, working properties of the
slurry changed over time, they often crawled etc.
These crappy glaze recipes made me go out of my way to learn about
glazes and develop my own.
If I got a bunch of great recipes that worked consistently, I might
never have had the need to learn about glazes.
When I see someone's glaze recipe posted, if I am interested in it, I
will make a Currie grid of it and fire it on my claybody and my firing
schedule. I tried the recipes from Ron and John's book, but it turns
out that I fire a little hotter than cone 6 and some of the glazes in
that book don't like the extra heat work (Licorice though works great at
^7-8).
It turns out that I was unwilling to change my firing schedule to fit
the MC6 glazes into my palette.
I feel that while it may be worthwhile to include information about clay
body, firing type, etc etc... unless one is willing to adapt many of the
ways of the potter giving the recipe, then you won't end up with a
similar glaze.
So I guess it comes down to a question of how much you really want the
look of the other person's glaze on your art.
For me I'm comfortable with just the recipe... When I run a Currie grid
it turns out that I almost always get some glaze to show up that I
wasn't expecting and for me that's the exciting part.
~another thought in today's world is that if you really want to teach
someone from a distance how to use your glazes, you could make a video
blog about it.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
threereeds1 on tue 11 jul 06
Paul,
I have only been hanging for a bit over 1/2 year. In that time
a number of folks have presented a face that seems to have a rather
tight focus. I know allot of folks identify with (that which they do well).
It is their worth. I admit to being a bit like that. Happily for me I get
bored as soon as the challenge, is (perceived), won. Moving to a different
challenge keeps life interesting. This same personality trait greatly
affects
the bottom line...adversely.
Anyway people have to be the way they are....
John did mention that he was throwing a stick in or out, to stir.
I think a "how do you share glaze info?" beats the hell out of
what your in-laws family values are. That is a bit too much
soap in the soup.
Glazewise, I just gave a thin coat of six different slip glazes ...each over
a base of Rhodes 32 and then 27...and another satin mat ^10. All are great
except one slip which has beautiful gold star crystals floating in the most
god awful mustard, baby sh** brown-yellow yuck color. over all three bases.
Will get tight with a glaze when necessary, not before.
I know that this post hops a bit, intentional. I'd rather not have
to strain to communicate, on Clayart.
Paul, the "your mileage may vary" always gets a nod and a smile...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Herman"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: Glaze Recipes--Some Observations and Questions
> OK John,
>
> Here's a stick back at you.
>
I think you are trying to impose your own personal belief system on
> the clayart world at large. Text omited
> All my glaze recipes come with "your milage may vary" attached. Even
> if it's not written, please keep that in mind, and apply it to all
> the recipes I post. You should be able to remember that. I'm counting
> on people here on the list to have the intelligence to be able to go
> from there..
text omited
> Paul Herman
>
> Great Basin Pottery
> Doyle, California US
> http://greatbasinpottery.com
__________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Bob Masta on wed 12 jul 06
While some of the things John asks for sound reasonable
at first blush, I suspect the real reason they are not
included with recipes is that people just don't know, or
else the details turn out to be less useful than one might
expect.
I'll wager that unless they are electric potters with programmable
controllers, very few know their exact firing schedule. They
know how they fire *their* kiln: So many hours at HIGH, wait
till the cone bends, so many hours at MED, etc. Not too useful
for anyone else.
Application thickness for most is probably a relative thing.
How many have actually measured the thickness? We just
say "Apply thick" or "Brush on 2 coats", which is relative
to our own ways of operating. And specific gravity is no
real panacea either, since "X seconds at Y specific gravity"
doesn't specify the thickness... the body porosity has to
be included, and who knows that?
And most folks don't test on a whole range of clay bodies.
They test on what they use, which for most is probably a
very limited selection. If I have a glaze that works for me on
a particular body, I'd be pretty shy about generalizing to
other bodies I haven't used.
In short, it's good if people share what they know, but
don't expect them to open a testing lab to find out how
to apply their glaze to your pots. If you know that a glaze
is finicky about iron in the water, or needs a really slow
cool in a certain temperature range, or needs to be especially
thick or thin, or tends to run, or whatever, then say that.
Those things give others guidelines as to where to start
in their own experiments, but they must expect that they
will have to test it for themselves, on their own pots, in
their own kilns, with their own particular ingredients.
Besides, that's part of the fun!
Best regards,
Bob Masta
potsATdaqartaDOTcom
Carol Heuston on wed 12 jul 06
Hello everyone, I am a very new potter. I must thank everyone that has
ever shared a glaze recipe. The whole process of making glazes is so very
confusing for a new potter. I personally just want a few usable glazes to
protect, preserve, and enhance my pots. I do not wish to steal anyone's
work or designs, however, that being said, I must at first try to master
the basics before I can then go on to find my own voice in my art. I need
as much information as I can possible recieve and that is one of my reason
for joining this group. I need some tried and true,safe glazes for my B
mix ^10 clay. I need all the helpful information that you guys have from
your years of experience. Everyone has had to start from the beginning.
Just think of all the times that you have discovered something new and
beneficial and said to yourself that I wish I had known that sooner. I
just wanted to share a beginners point of view and thank you for your
sharing of knowledge. Thanks, Carol Heuston in Houston
Maurice Weitman on wed 12 jul 06
At 14:20 -0400 on 7/12/06, Carol Heuston wrote:
>[...] I need some tried and true,safe glazes for my B
>mix ^10 clay. I need all the helpful information that you guys have from
>your years of experience. Everyone has had to start from the beginning.
>Just think of all the times that you have discovered something new and
>beneficial and said to yourself that I wish I had known that sooner. I
>just wanted to share a beginners point of view and thank you for your
>sharing of knowledge. Thanks, Carol Heuston in Houston
Hello, Carol, and welcome to clayart.
To varying degrees, we are all still beginners; there's always more
to learn and experience, and there are always things that we wish we
had known sooner.
I think the question/problem you pose is too large, but there's a
resource you've (almost) found here that is up to the task.
I speak of the clayart "archive." In it, one can find answers to
most questions. They might not all be correct for you, but neither
will all answers to your specific questions.
You don't say how you'll be firing your B-mix, but there are archived
recommendations for books including a recent one that I (and many
others) think is wonderful -- it contains many recipes, mostly cone
10: John Britt's delicious book can be ordered from him at:
http://www.johnbrittpottery.com/pub.htm
You can access archived clayart message information either
chronologically or by searching for words in the articles either on
the official clayart site at:
http://lsv.ceramics.org/archivedata/clayart.html
or on potters.org where many find an "unofficial" but categorized
version to be more accessible:
http://www.potters.org/categories.htm
As an example, there are over 400 clayart "threads" about glazes in
the cone 8-10 range, and nearly 1,000 threads on books.
And speaking of "wish I had known" I just searched there for "wish
and known" and found some interesting ideas:
Good luck on your quest.
Regards,
Maurice, fresh home for a couple of days from a trip to central
Oregon, and soon off to the right coast, where I once belonged, to
visit family and friends.
May Luk on thu 13 jul 06
Hello everybody;
A glaze recipe is not a beginning, it is the end. It
is a result of one particular exploration. A glaze
does not start with a recipe. It starts with a series
of questions. These questions are answered by glaze
fundamentals.
Giving complete glaze beginners glaze recipes is like
telling them the ending of a story and making them
work out the plot themselves without any knowledge of
the protagonists.
Glaze learning can APPEAR to be dull and difficult.
Learning together with a lively work group over a
period of time is easier on the cognitive load.
Beginner potters (who are not in proper colleges) will
definitely benefit from a basic glaze course in a
classroom / workshop setting. One learns how to do
button tests, raw materials, Segar formulae, line
blends, firing efficiently and correctly and most
importantly, health and safety. With this fundamental
knowledge, anyone can have the confident to explore on
their own. Sharing recipes can be a more rewarding
experience and less one-sided.
Pottery classes are easy to find but glaze courses
less so. There is not enough demand. It could be a
result of potter’s ‘generosity’ and consequently, the
misconception of collecting glaze recipes as the first
step to glaze learning.
I am not against recipes sharing. I am against bulk
testing recipes without critical thinking. I am
against skipping the foundations and struggle on your
own for no good reason.
Back to the original subject: While it is not fair to
single somebody out, I am with Lili about the kind of
glaze information required. No assumption is made on
the recipient and not too much time spent.
Thanks for listening
May
London, UK
P.S. Not that I agree to cooking being the same as
glaze making. Culinary recipes do not work on their
own, hence the live demo and TV cooking shows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[...]
The bottommost line on this is that the publication of
the formula should be demanded. (Read "About Recipes"
if you do not understand this) to save everyone
time and money. I think it would be desirable to add
: This glaze was tested over a dark red body with 1.5%
absorption" or similar.
Lili Krakowski
Antoinette Badenhorst on thu 13 jul 06
Very very well said May! I wish I had those fundimentals that you talk
about. I am sure that I would have been more confident about glazes =
then.
Do you need sharp trimming tools that will not wear out quickly? Contact =
me
for information.=20
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS, 38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
www.southernartistry.org
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of May Luk
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:25 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Glaze Recipes--Some Observations and Questions
Hello everybody;
A glaze recipe is not a beginning, it is the end. It
is a result of one particular exploration. A glaze
does not start with a recipe. It starts with a series
of questions. These questions are answered by glaze
fundamentals.
Giving complete glaze beginners glaze recipes is like
telling them the ending of a story and making them
work out the plot themselves without any knowledge of
the protagonists.
Glaze learning can APPEAR to be dull and difficult.
Learning together with a lively work group over a
period of time is easier on the cognitive load.
Beginner potters (who are not in proper colleges) will
definitely benefit from a basic glaze course in a
classroom / workshop setting. One learns how to do
button tests, raw materials, Segar formulae, line
blends, firing efficiently and correctly and most
importantly, health and safety. With this fundamental
knowledge, anyone can have the confident to explore on
their own. Sharing recipes can be a more rewarding
experience and less one-sided.
Pottery classes are easy to find but glaze courses
less so. There is not enough demand. It could be a
result of potter's 'generosity' and consequently, the
misconception of collecting glaze recipes as the first
step to glaze learning.
I am not against recipes sharing. I am against bulk
testing recipes without critical thinking. I am
against skipping the foundations and struggle on your
own for no good reason.
Back to the original subject: While it is not fair to
single somebody out, I am with Lili about the kind of
glaze information required. No assumption is made on
the recipient and not too much time spent.
Thanks for listening
May
London, UK
P.S. Not that I agree to cooking being the same as
glaze making. Culinary recipes do not work on their
own, hence the live demo and TV cooking shows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[...]
The bottommost line on this is that the publication of
the formula should be demanded. (Read "About Recipes"
if you do not understand this) to save everyone
time and money. I think it would be desirable to add
: This glaze was tested over a dark red body with 1.5%
absorption" or similar.
Lili Krakowski
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy on sun 16 jul 06
Dear carol,
Yes - we have all been there - and many of us have forgotten just how
difficult it is to get started in our craft - especially if you are
learning by yourself at home.
I would be helpful if you would say just what kind of information you think
would be helpful to you.
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
RR
>Hello everyone, I am a very new potter. I must thank everyone that has
>ever shared a glaze recipe. The whole process of making glazes is so very
>confusing for a new potter. I personally just want a few usable glazes to
>protect, preserve, and enhance my pots. I do not wish to steal anyone's
>work or designs, however, that being said, I must at first try to master
>the basics before I can then go on to find my own voice in my art. I need
>as much information as I can possible recieve and that is one of my reason
>for joining this group. I need some tried and true,safe glazes for my B
>mix ^10 clay. I need all the helpful information that you guys have from
>your years of experience. Everyone has had to start from the beginning.
>Just think of all the times that you have discovered something new and
>beneficial and said to yourself that I wish I had known that sooner. I
>just wanted to share a beginners point of view and thank you for your
>sharing of knowledge. Thanks, Carol Heuston in Houston
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Alisa Liskin Clausen on wed 19 jul 06
> >
>
>>Hello everyone, I am a very new potter. I must thank everyone that has
>>ever shared a glaze recipe. The whole process of making glazes is so very
>>confusing for a new potter. I personally just want a few usable glazes to
>>protect, preserve, and enhance my pots. I do not wish to steal anyone's
>>work or designs, however, that being said, I must at first try to master
>>the basics before I can then go on to find my own voice in my art. I need
>>as much information as I can possible recieve and that is one of my
reason
Dear Carole
I think you will find by the very nature of the Clayart participants on
this forum, we are mostly willing to help and reveal.
There are certainly many things a beginner needs to know about just to
avoid dangers of the materials and equipment. Then there are basics about
materials and then there are techniques, etc. So, I suppose there are
basic guidelines to get you started in the ceramic studio and then from
there, the knowledge grows from a combination of what you are being taught
by another source and what you learn from your present knowledge and
desire to go further.
I think this is done in two ways. The first part by people showing you
and teaching you. The second is your ability to use what you know to make
experiments. What you learn from those experiments depends on what you
know going into the experiment and what you can reveal from the results.
It is stepping stones and I suppose, like a building up of a mental
library. In this library you have fact and fiction, good advice, bad
advice and relevant and non relevant advice. In this library you also
have resources to help you to remember, to open up idea venues you never
considered and a place to record your own notes and findings, to build on.
I would say that if I had a "studio disaster" like I fired an earthernware
clay to stoneware, because no one told me not too and I was curious, well,
that was something I would say, I wish had known.
That is a terribly basic example, but things like that and more, you can
easily reap from people and books.
However, the finer techniques, the more specialized effects you desire in
your work, will most likely come from your own work, based on your ever
increasing level of education (i.e. power) and most importantly I believe,
your desire to move around in the medium.
If you have anything specific you would like to know more about, you are
talking to a couple of thousand people, all with something to share with
you.
Best regards from Alisa in Denmark
(still!! in NJ)
| |
|
