Sharon Miranda on wed 16 aug 06
Dear Clayarters,
You have been so kind and helpful in the past, could you give me your
humble opinions about this, please?
I need another kiln. The L+L kiln I bought used 12 years ago has never
fired evenly, no matter what I try (bottom underfires), AND it's a bit
too small for my needs (18"x 27". 3.9 cu.ft).
I'm looking at the Olympic 23"x23" (5.8 cu ft) with 3 " brick. The size
would be ideal. In researching the archives (what a resource!),I've
noted that almost everyone loves their L+L, or Skutt kilns, and I would
so love to have one, BUT, the nearest size to the Olympic in those
brands is a 23x 18. I can't imagine trying to load a kiln that is only
18 inches deep. On the other hand, altho there are some on the list who
love their Olympics, there are many complaints about it. (Lid is heavy,
unwieldy, kiln is not as well made, guarantee not as good, company not
as responsive).
My top priorities are size, and a kiln that fires evenly. And of
course, something that will last, will not break down, fall apart, etc.
What sayest ye?
Thanks in advance -
Sharon
L. P. Skeen on thu 17 aug 06
Y'all have to realize that Elizabeth is taller than the average (female) =
bear. I believe that 30" is too deep a kiln for most North American =
females. Mine is 27", and too deep for me, and I'm 5'6" tall. I have =
pavers stacked up to stand on when loading, and I get someone w/ longer =
arms to load the bottom shelf.
Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold my Olympic Oval.....
L
Get your copy of the 2007 Clay Lover's Calendar at =
http://www.living-tree.net/calendar.htm . Ask about wholesale pricing =
on orders of 10 or more.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Elizabeth Priddy=20
My large L&L is 30" x 30" and any deeper and you could hardly reach =
the bottom.
William & Susan Schran User on thu 17 aug 06
On 8/16/06 10:18 PM, "Sharon Miranda" wrote:
> I need another kiln. The L+L kiln I bought used 12 years ago has never
> fired evenly, no matter what I try (bottom underfires), AND it's a bit
> too small for my needs (18"x 27". 3.9 cu.ft).
>
> I'm looking at the Olympic 23"x23" (5.8 cu ft) with 3 " brick. The size
> would be ideal. In researching the archives (what a resource!),I've
> noted that almost everyone loves their L+L, or Skutt kilns, and I would
> so love to have one, BUT, the nearest size to the Olympic in those
> brands is a 23x 18.
Sharon,
All that follows is IMHO, but I've had, maintained and repaired both L&L &
Olympic kilns.
First, run, do not walk away from the Olympic! From my experience repairing
at least 6 different brands of kilns, the Olympic are the worst. You will
also find their support after you get the kiln to be less than satisfying!.
At school we have 6 L&L's and in my own studio I have one and will be
getting a 2nd one next month. I have one from the 1980's and our newest is a
year old. I have found them the easiest to work on and with just a little
care, they will last for many years. When I replace a full set of elements
it takes me usually less than an hour!
I also found older L&L's to fire a bit unevenly, but after I began using
cones top & bottom, I could adjust the controls the get a very even firing.
Then I got smart and started using downdraft venting. I fire ^6 crystalline
glazes. I need precise control of temperature throughout the kiln,
especially during holding temperatures for crystal growth. Firing in a J18X,
manual controls, with downdraft vent, two thermocouples, I can hit exact ^6
top & bottom, then with some fiddling of the infinite controls, can hold a
temperature top & bottom for 4 hours!
L&L's have gotten much better over the past several years,
controls/connections/materials are of better quality. A couple of years ago
we got our first L&L programmable kilns at school specifically for firing
crystalline glazes. I am an "old school" kinda guy and was reluctant to have
a programmable kiln. With thermocouples at each section, we get even firings
all the time. We still use cones top & bottom, so I do have an accurate
record of every firing. One kiln has recorded more than 40 crystalline glaze
firings and has not been off by more than 10 minutes for the length of the
first firing to the 40th!
I'm convinced, I'm getting a programmable L&L kiln for myself next month -
finally moving into the 21st century!
You will see I've copied Stephen Lewicki. The president of L&L will contact
you Sharon, or you can contact him, and you can ask him about your situation
and discuss which kiln will best suit your needs.
With equipment purchases we all want, and should demand, quality products
that the manufacturer will stand behind and offer excellent support. I think
you'll find that with L&L.
I have no monetary relationship with L&L, I just strongly believe in their
products.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Elizabeth Priddy on thu 17 aug 06
so love to have one, BUT, the nearest size to the
Olympic in those
brands is a 23x 18. I can't imagine trying to load a
kiln that is only
18 inches deep. On the other hand, altho there are
some on the list who
___________________________
I have three L&L kilns, and unless they were given to
me gratis to try, I would not have any other kind.
My large L&L is 30" x 30" and any deeper and you could
hardly reach the bottom.
L&L recommends the wired bottom for even heating in
any kiln bigger than the J18.
If your kiln is heating unevenly, it is possible that
that is the only mod you need. And L&L has the
remarkable feature of seperate rings and so it can be
as deep or shallow as you want and change as you need
it to, for electric raku using only one ring, for
instance.
L&L kilns are just better, in my opinion. Other kilns
are now copying their features that have always been
their features, like the L shaped element holders.
And they are affordable, expandable, and just don't
break down.
I have used one with the same elements, and no repair
for the last 18 years. No typo. 18 years, one kiln,
fired regularly to meet the needs of several classes
going at once and hard core production.
I don't abuse my kilns, don't use glazes that spit and
crawl, and don't overload them. I have also only used
the same 10 shelves for the past 10 years. Like I
said, I don't mess with glazes that are a pain.
I'ld stick with L&L with a different configuration.
Things that I would endorse,
but that I am not nor have ever been a shill for:
Amaco Velevet Underglazes
Giffen grip
Northstar products
Minnesota Clay glazes and colorants
York Kick wheels
I am a clay slut and will and can use anything. I
have a brent, a pacifica, a brent kick, a york, and a
clay boss wheel(s). I like them all for different
reasons. I am in the market for 2 more used Yorks if
anyone has one they would like to sell.
But for kilns, and I have used about all there are in
various clay centers over 20 years...L&L.
Elizabeth
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Karen Latorre on thu 17 aug 06
******
"William & Susan Schran User" wschran@COX.NET wrote:
At school we have 6 L&L's and in my own studio I have one and will be
getting a 2nd one next month. I have one from the 1980's and our newest is a
year old. I have found them the easiest to work on and with just a little
care, they will last for many years. When I replace a full set of elements
it takes me usually less than an hour!
I also found older L&L's to fire a bit unevenly, but after I began using
cones top & bottom, I could adjust the controls the get a very even firing.
Then I got smart and started using downdraft venting. I fire ^6 crystalline
…
glazes.
******
Now that I’m in process of replacing my ConeArt kiln elements for the first
time, I’ll have to second what Bill has said here regarding the L&L. I have
a small (~2 cu ft), older, L&L. I’ve changed out those elements 3 times now.
It doesn’t fire much past cone 6, but has been very simple to maintain with
respect to elements and inside panel connections. It takes me a little more
than an hour for me to change out those elements, but it’s not a big deal.
The connector blocks where the elements end up are very easy to loosen. The
ceramic tracks where the elements sit are very strong and a good design
idea!
My issue with the L&L is that the “shell/skin” is rusting on the inside, so
every time I open or close the lid, I have a little smattering of rust all
over whatever’s on the top. The lid folds down and around to the inside edge
of the lid. Also, I seem to be changing those elements out much more often
than with the ConeArt (since I’ve owned both, and I got both used, with the
L&L in ’97 and the ConeArt in ‘98, I’ve changed the L&L 3 times now, and the
Cone Art is seeing it’s first servicing). They receive about the same amount
of service, although the cone art is taken to Cone 8 about ½ of the time,
and occasionally to Cone 9 for the odd crystalline firing I do. The L&L
doesn't see past cone 6 as the results are not good (yes, I've tried to get
it to cone 9 with brand new elements).
I say again, the L&L is a very old kiln, square, painted industrial green.
The insulation on it isn’t great. I don’t know what the new ones are like
with regards to the shell of the kiln, but that’s my main issue with my
small kiln.
Bill, I’m curious about your cone 6 crystalline. I have the ClayTimes issue
with the cone 6 crystalline article. Are you using one of those recipes? I
haven’t tried them yet, but have been planning to for a long time now. I’d
love to drop some of my firing temps if possible without losing the effects
I’m getting. Thanks to clayart suggestions I have my iron red (Loyalist
College Rosies' Red) reset to cone 6 by the addition of bone ash and still
need to reset my satin tan and ensure both glazes have the same effects when
combined with my clear (Hansen’s 20/20). I’m going to try a line blend on
the satin tan with bone ash and see what happens.
Always something to do … good thing too … otherwise it might be boring!
Karen
North of Belleville, Ontario
www.karenlatorre.com
pottertoo (at) hotmail (dot) com
_________________________________________________________________
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
http://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
darrell calhoun on fri 18 aug 06
I recommend the L&L kiln as well. They send a great manual and have great customer support.
Mitch Kotula wrote: I own a 10 cubic foot Olympic for four years and a 7 cubic foot Skutt for 10 years. My next kiln will be an L&L, simply because it is faster and easier to replace elements.
I second the recommendation to run away from the Olympic. There is no customer support when you call, just ladies ready to take your order. The owner is usually at NCECA and he is helpful, yet is deaf to his lack of customer support and any other negative comments about products or service.
Skutt was plagued with bad thermocouples a few years ago and now has that in hand. Perry, their super supportive tech person is a life-saver. I have had wonderful conversations and follow-up calls from him.
Mitch
Mitch Kotula
Development Plus
PO Box 2076
Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
406-961-5136 (Home)
406-546-6980 (Cell)
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on fri 18 aug 06
I currently have a new-ish (2 yrs old) L&L kiln, which replaced my old =20=
L&L, which was 25 years old. The reason I got another L&L is because =20
the bricks really do last a VERY long time. The hard element holders =20
stop any crumbling around the elements. I replaced the old kiln because =20=
the electrical stuff and the metal shell & hinge needed a total =20
replacement, and I figured that, what the heck, I deserved a new kiln. =20=
The bricks on the old kiln still looked good, and probably would have =20=
lasted at least another 25 years! (BTW, I gave the old kiln to someone =20=
who doesn't mind doing all the replacement work on it.)
Lynn
On Aug 18, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Mitch Kotula wrote:
> I own a 10 cubic foot Olympic for four years and a 7 cubic foot Skutt =20=
> for 10 years. My next kiln will be an L&L, simply because it is =20
> faster and easier to replace elements.
>
> I second the recommendation to run away from the Olympic. There is =20=
> no customer support when you call, just ladies ready to take your =20
> order. The owner is usually at NCECA and he is helpful, yet is deaf =20=
> to his lack of customer support and any other negative comments about =20=
> products or service.
>
> Skutt was plagued with bad thermocouples a few years ago and now has =
=20
> that in hand. Perry, their super supportive tech person is a =20
> life-saver. I have had wonderful conversations and follow-up calls =20=
> from him.
>
> Mitch
>
>
> Mitch Kotula
> Development Plus
> PO Box 2076
> Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
> 406-961-5136 (Home)
> 406-546-6980 (Cell)
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great =20=
> rates starting at 1=A2/min.
>
> =
_______________________________________________________________________=20=
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
548 Court St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-858-6920
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Elizabeth Priddy on fri 18 aug 06
I did forget that Lisa is a little shortie...heh, heh.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Mitch Kotula on fri 18 aug 06
I own a 10 cubic foot Olympic for four years and a 7 cubic foot Skutt for 10 years. My next kiln will be an L&L, simply because it is faster and easier to replace elements.
I second the recommendation to run away from the Olympic. There is no customer support when you call, just ladies ready to take your order. The owner is usually at NCECA and he is helpful, yet is deaf to his lack of customer support and any other negative comments about products or service.
Skutt was plagued with bad thermocouples a few years ago and now has that in hand. Perry, their super supportive tech person is a life-saver. I have had wonderful conversations and follow-up calls from him.
Mitch
Mitch Kotula
Development Plus
PO Box 2076
Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
406-961-5136 (Home)
406-546-6980 (Cell)
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
| |
|
