Ann Baker on sat 26 aug 06
Ok, it's me again, seeking knowledge from Ye Wise Ones of Clay Art.
I do sculpture, I tend to really work the clay in the process of making my
figures (ok I over work it!). Right now I'm using HWC cone 5/6
porcelain. I like that it is very smooth so as I make my faces and
resmooth them 500 billion times I don't get bumps coming to the surface.
However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the shortcomings are
beginning to show up more and more. Splits and cracks develop very easily
in the drying or firing process, especially where I tend to manipulate the
form a lot such as the neck and waist areas. Yes I know, dry them slowly,
however I'm still seeing the problem. The bottom line is I think I need
to find a clay that is more plastic. I like using porcelain for the
texure/finish, but I'm not set on it. I am stuck on it being a white clay
and smooth. I want cone 5/6 as I'm not going to change all my glazes and
techniques. AND I'm not going to formulate or mix my own clay. I need
something I can get in the South East (SC, NC, GA, TN). Any suggestions,
opinions? okay dumb question, OF COURSE there are suggestions and
opinions, I mean it is Clay Art...let me rephrase...please send
suggestions.
Thanks! Ann B
William & Susan Schran User on sun 27 aug 06
On 8/26/06 9:37 PM, "Ann Baker" wrote:
> I do sculpture, I tend to really work the clay in the process of making my
> figures (ok I over work it!). Right now I'm using HWC cone 5/6
> porcelain. I like that it is very smooth so as I make my faces and
> resmooth them 500 billion times I don't get bumps coming to the surface.
> However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the shortcomings are
> beginning to show up more and more. Splits and cracks develop very easily
> in the drying or firing process, especially where I tend to manipulate the
> form a lot such as the neck and waist areas.
Beyond a slow drying process, maintaining a relative equal wall thickness
will often resolve many cracking issues.
Couple of suggestions: Is the porcelain you're using available with added
grog? Do you have accessibility to a mixer or pug mill where you can add
porcelain grog? Adding grog and striving for even wall thickness will
probably resolve the cracking. For the smooth surface, make a slip of the
same clay without grog, apply to damp/leatherhard form and burnish to a
smooth surface.
Realize, the higher you fire complicated forms of irregular wall thickness,
the greater the chance of cracking.
My suggestion would be that you change to a low fire sculptural clay that
will allow for a greater latitude in the variability of wall thickness.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
annapoorna sitaram on sun 27 aug 06
hello
ann
try paper clay as it is very forgiving for biggeners like me so i am sure as
you have more experiance you will find it very easy to work with
there are many companies in the us as i live in india i dont know about
them
i make up my own clay
also look up this web site her works are in porcelen too
have a look.
http://natika.choctaw-art.com/cal2.php?pg=dx1x300
try the clay that comes from
Brant Palley at New Mexico
> Clay of his product: Magic Clay. see description on his website at
> www.nmclay.com.
also Rosette Gault has very interesting works in her web site
also the following web site on paper clay
http://www.paperclayart.com/105porcelain.html
all the best
happy sculpting
annapoorna sitaram
bangalore
Janine Roubik on sun 27 aug 06
Hello Ann,
In school I was doing mostly abstracted figural works. I would do them in our red, groggy stoneware and as they were drying put a thickish finish of porcelain slip on them. I got the porcelain "finish" with the stoneware strength. I would also ( if this helps any) do a head ( with a slanted hole in it), then the body (with a long neck to fit inside the head) and then the legs (with a long torso to fit inside the skirt or pants) of the being. All were separate, but then would be epoxy-puttied into place after everything was fired. Another thing I did, when doing a lager bust that couldn't be fired separately, was to make the whole contraption, with that fibrous, thready fiberglass looking additive in the clay, ( I forget what it's called - someone help me out here...) and then poke every single square centimeter all the way through the piece. I would then smooth everything on the exterior of the piece over with a rib and some more slip. I never had anything blow
up or crack, although by all means technically, I should have. If you are dead-set on using all porcelain, all I can say is that my friend in grad school who was dead-set on using only porcelain encountered the same thing. I honestly don't think it's plastic enough for large sculptural manipulation. if you could find a body that works for you, please let us all know, but from what I've heard to date, porcelain doesn't sound too good for larger sculptural works.
I don't know what HWC means - if it's a clay from a local (local to where you are ) clay co., I'm from Wisconsin .... Hope this helps at least a little,
Good luck and have fun!
Janine
Ann Baker wrote:
Ok, it's me again, seeking knowledge from Ye Wise Ones of Clay Art.
I do sculpture, I tend to really work the clay in the process of making my
figures (ok I over work it!). Right now I'm using HWC cone 5/6
porcelain. I like that it is very smooth so as I make my faces and
resmooth them 500 billion times I don't get bumps coming to the surface.
However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the shortcomings are
beginning to show up more and more. Splits and cracks develop very easily
in the drying or firing process, especially where I tend to manipulate the
form a lot such as the neck and waist areas. Yes I know, dry them slowly,
however I'm still seeing the problem. The bottom line is I think I need
to find a clay that is more plastic. I like using porcelain for the
texure/finish, but I'm not set on it. I am stuck on it being a white clay
and smooth. I want cone 5/6 as I'm not going to change all my glazes and
techniques. AND I'm not going to formulate or mix my own clay. I need
something I can get in the South East (SC, NC, GA, TN). Any suggestions,
opinions? okay dumb question, OF COURSE there are suggestions and
opinions, I mean it is Clay Art...let me rephrase...please send
suggestions.
Thanks! Ann B
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Megan Mason on sun 27 aug 06
do you mean the Dupont nylon shredded fibers? They are added to some
concrete mixes I had been informed and may be found locally if you do some
detective work.
In a message dated 8/27/2006 1:59:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
roubikpottery@YAHOO.COM writes:
thready fiberglass looking additive in the clay, ( I forget what it's
called - someone help me out here...) and then poke every single square
centimeter all the way through the piece. I would then smooth everything
claybair on sun 27 aug 06
Ann,
I did a brief search and came up with
A guy who does sculpture with porcelain at ^5-6 see:
Sergei Isupov at Penland :
http://www.penland.org/classes/summer/clay.html
Also look at the selection of clays at:
http://www.leslieceramics.com/claydescriptions.html
http://www.clayimco.com/mid_range_clays.htm
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Ann Baker
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:38 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: need new clay body
Ok, it's me again, seeking knowledge from Ye Wise Ones of Clay Art.
I do sculpture, I tend to really work the clay in the process of making my
figures (ok I over work it!). Right now I'm using HWC cone 5/6
porcelain. I like that it is very smooth so as I make my faces and
resmooth them 500 billion times I don't get bumps coming to the surface.
However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the shortcomings are
beginning to show up more and more. Splits and cracks develop very easily
in the drying or firing process, especially where I tend to manipulate the
form a lot such as the neck and waist areas. Yes I know, dry them slowly,
however I'm still seeing the problem. The bottom line is I think I need
to find a clay that is more plastic. I like using porcelain for the
texure/finish, but I'm not set on it. I am stuck on it being a white clay
and smooth. I want cone 5/6 as I'm not going to change all my glazes and
techniques. AND I'm not going to formulate or mix my own clay. I need
something I can get in the South East (SC, NC, GA, TN). Any suggestions,
opinions? okay dumb question, OF COURSE there are suggestions and
opinions, I mean it is Clay Art...let me rephrase...please send
suggestions.
Thanks! Ann B
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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Jennifer Smith on sun 27 aug 06
Ann,
Try Campbell's Ceramic Supply at www.claysupply.com . Click on
"locations" on their homepage and you can find the closest supplier
to you. They have a Campbell's in Knoxville and Coastal Ceramic
Supply in Summerville, SC carries Campbell's clay too.
I know they have a white sculpture body of their own (cone 4 - 8) but
I've never tried it. I've used their Virginia Dogwood which is a
white stoneware kind of close to porcelain in the way it handles but
still has a little grog. I think they also carry Standard Clay.
Jen
On Aug 26, 2006, at 9:37 PM, Ann Baker wrote:
> Ok, it's me again, seeking knowledge from Ye Wise Ones of Clay Art.
>
> I do sculpture, I tend to really work the clay in the process of
> making my
> figures (ok I over work it!). Right now I'm using HWC cone 5/6
> porcelain. I like that it is very smooth so as I make my faces and
> resmooth them 500 billion times I don't get bumps coming to the
> surface.
> However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the
> shortcomings are
> beginning to show up more and more. Splits and cracks develop very
> easily
> in the drying or firing process, especially where I tend to
> manipulate the
> form a lot such as the neck and waist areas. Yes I know, dry them
> slowly,
> however I'm still seeing the problem. The bottom line is I think I
> need
> to find a clay that is more plastic. I like using porcelain for the
> texure/finish, but I'm not set on it. I am stuck on it being a
> white clay
> and smooth. I want cone 5/6 as I'm not going to change all my
> glazes and
> techniques. AND I'm not going to formulate or mix my own clay. I need
> something I can get in the South East (SC, NC, GA, TN). Any
> suggestions,
> opinions? okay dumb question, OF COURSE there are suggestions and
> opinions, I mean it is Clay Art...let me rephrase...please send
> suggestions.
>
> Thanks! Ann B
>
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on mon 28 aug 06
Dear Ann,
just a quickie. Even slow drying of clay has its inherent problems. When =
I have a complicated build, or want to dry something quickly, I wrap my =
object in Newspaper - for fast drying I then put the object wrapped in =
Newspaper straight into my drier, and then take the Newspaper off the =
next day and proceeed with my normal drying cycle - for the more =
complicated structures I would also wrap in binliner plastic. What the =
Newspaper does is to relieve the tensions that complex building has =
within itself - it moves moisture from too damp an area to areas that =
are too dry and evens out the levels, and thus alleviates tensions =
within your build. This is not a cure-all, but it certainly is a =
brilliant tool. I think that where it does not work is when I am =
impatient. Suck it and see.
Happy potting Marek
Hand made Architectural Ceramics from No9 Studio UK www.no9uk.com
Fully Residential Pottery Courses and more at Mole Cottage =
www.moleys.com
"Tips and Time Travel from a Vernacular Potter" reviews on =
www.keramix.com
an irreverent point of view after 35 years in the game Marek =
Drzazga-Donaldson =20
Free Works and Mole Cottage DVD's and Video content on all the sites
Snail Scott on mon 28 aug 06
At 09:37 PM 8/26/2006 -0400, Ann B wrote:
>I do sculpture...
>porcelain...
>However, as I grow into making larger, taller pieces the shortcomings are
>beginning to show...Splits and cracks develop very easily
>in the drying or firing process...The bottom line is I think I need
>to find a clay that is more plastic...
It is difficult to do large porcelain work,
especially with complex forms, and not get
cracking. The reason for this is the very high
shrinkage rate of porcelain, which makes it more
sensitive than other clays to irregular drying
rates and to the stresses of firing. Finding a
more plastic porcelain will also mean a higher
shrinkage than you have already. Perhaps what
you need is a LESS plastic clay. Consider adding
a very fine grog to your porcelain, like
molochite. It is fine enough that it won't much
alter the texture of the finish, but it will
reduce the shrinkage a bit. Yes, it will allow
even less manipulation, but something's gotta
change.
You might consider that there's a reason you
seldom see large porcelain sculpture, or large
sculpture out of any ungrogged clay: the issues
you've encountered aren't unique to you, but are
typical. If you want to do this, you are setting
yourself some steep technical challenges.
Of first importance is to maintain the most even
possible drying rate, even if it means building
a temporary custom 'damp box' out of lath and
plastic for every piece, and waiting a month or
more while it dries.
You will also have to modify your technique,
since you have identified areas that get 'worked'
too much as trouble spots. Try refining your
process of visualization, so that you can go
straight to your intended form without re-working
it over and over to get it right. Doing small
maquettes can help with this, allowing you to
work out troublesome compositional or anatomical
problems at a convenient scale instead of using
the final piece for 'experiments'. This will make
you less dependent on the plasticity of the clay,
and if you can use a less plastic body, you will
get less cracking and fewer shrinkage-related
problems.
People often become committed to various aspects
of their process (working methods, tools,
materials, schedules) and remain with them even
after they become a hindrance and not a help.
Step back and consider what is really important
to your work. If it's the porcelain, you will
have to change your technique and timeline,
perhaps as mentioned above. If it's your working
method, you may be better off forgoing porcelain
in favor of stoneware or another medium. A body
containing ball clay will be more plastic, but
less white. A body containing large grog will
shrink much less but be less smooth. A body
containing a lot of molochite will look smooth
and white, but be hard to work with. Fiber
additives will reduce cracking during drying,
but make surface refinements difficult. Maybe
smoothness is really less important than you
thought, compared with whiteness, composition,
or large size, or something else. Prioritize
what attributes YOU want in your work.
It's a rare process that can scale up without
any changes at all. Keep an open mind regarding
what your goals are, and what changes you will
accept.
-Snail
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