John Thomas McDole on mon 28 aug 06
Sending again in case of error in the past few days:
Hi All,
I've recently purchased an "in excellent working condition" Brent CXC
wheel (plus kiln). Since placed quotes around the working condition,
you can assume its not working properly. The basic problem when I got
it (and I'm not a potter, my wife is and its a present for her, she
was out of town at the time of purchase) was it was jerky at low
speeds and the pedal seemed unresponsive and very noisy.
The wheel was supposedly not used for 10 years; the seller wanted to
get rid of it and the kiln. It wasn't made clear to me how long the
wheel had set, nor that it had a previous owner for 5 years (wheel
made in 1991). Once I had it home for a few days, the wheel became
unresponsive to any pedal play. First though was the pedal, but the
electronics where so simple (two pots and a rheostat) it was tested in
a minute. Next target: the control module. I have a background in
embedded programming and access to very gifted electrical engineers,
so I took the control box apart and reverse engineered some schematics
for the control module - very basic stuff. A quick check of all
components showed nothing should have failed (if anything, the triac
would have gone first). So what do I do? I reach up and snatch the
wheel head... this sends the wheel spinning at top speed and throwing
some screws across the room! hehe.
Well, playing with the pedal adjustments, and letting the motor run
for a while to work out all the 'bugs' was a good start, but the
motor still made a lot of noise at low speed and was still jerky. My
wife became concerned that her new gift was a dud. At this point I
was going to take it back, but the seller is refusing to return my
calls, getting defensive and saying it 'worked' - as if the 2 mile
ride home magically broke the wheel.
So I set forth to do more research and try to fix this, in hopes of
having a cheap repair job. A search of the clayart list showed a few
postings about bad bearings. To me, this sounded logical, if the
bearings where binding up, then the motor would make a lot of noise
(though I didn't 'click' to the idea that 1hp would have the motor
starting every time, a product of working on seized engines in cars).
So I pull the motor apart to check the bearings, with those checking
out clean, I turn to the rear of the motor to check the brushes, which
also looked clean... but what was that?
Magnet Separation
Has anyone ever dealt with magnet separation before? One of the 4
large magnets had dislodged and was resting on the armature (note:
there are 8 magnets in the motor I have, model 2BC-00885, there are 4
smaller magnets at the head). So for that night, I re-epoxied the
magnet and clamped it down, near perfect realignment. In the process
though, the brushes got messed up.
Now, someone's probably saying "why didn't you call brent". Well, I
did, many times. i finally was able to talk to Bob and he was a good
bit of help with the brushes (20$ though?!) but Brent doesn't do any
motor work beyond brushes, so I got the number of one of their
manufactures, Current Applications. Current Applications was a big
help, Chris the technician was able to talk with me for a while, but
he couldn't find the motor model anywhere - turns out they've only
recently (~2 years) started making motors for Brent. Chris daisy
chained me to Stature Electric, and the engineer Todd at SE was
extremely helpful - but again, he couldn't find the model anywhere -
turns out they started making motors in the early 90's, but only two
models (1/2 hp?). He believed the motor was a Pacific Scientific from
what images I had sent him, but he couldn't' be sure.
If you are asking yourself, why is he trying to find the motor model /
manufacture, simple: if the armature is broken, I'd like to find a
replacement for the nearly one-off model Brent used. One of the
good'ol boy motor repair shop here in Atlanta wanted to say it was
completely hosed, even though the motor was running just the night
before, and I started this whole mess of taking things apart to solve
the noise / jerkiness. Now, the coil could be bad, I'll do more
testing later when I get the brushes from Brent.
Also, WW Grainger doesn't carry the brushes for this motor. They
carry a tamped with spring set for the motors they have in stock, but
nothing that fits the .250"x.500" brushes I was holding in my hands
(btw, they were seized in their seats and had to be removed forcibly
while the armature was out). I believe the brushes that were in the
motor have a stamp mark on them, "DOIM" (if you try searching for
that, you'll get a bunch of "department of information management"
pages) before they were destroyed, leaving only the tops visible.
So the questions are:
1) What are the actual part numbers for a set of brushes _not_ being
sold by brent?
2) What was the manufacture of the motor with the model number
2BC-00885, 1hp, 1600rpm, 10.5amp, ins cl. 105A-A1, int duty, 56b, 90v
motor!
I believe, after searching around for a while, that the Scott Motor
Inc. company made the motor - there is a picture of a lower voltage
one that looks fairly identical on one website. After searching
around, I found that Scott Motor is owned by Kinetek (under Imperial
Electric), and this looks to be very close to the motor:
http://www.imperialelectric.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=imperial/itemdetl.html?item=146&lvl1=PMM&lvl2=SCR&lvl3=&lvl4=
So after all is said and done; I hope that the new brushes from Brent
will fix my problem (with only having spent a few $ fixing an
'excellent working condition' wheel). I hope my experience is helpful
for any other hardware hacker, the true DIY soldier – or at least
amusing to the rest of you!
Many thanks go to Bob Randolph of Brent, Chris of Current
Applications, and Todd Gardner of Stature Electric for the great help
in researching this old wheel. With out their help, knowledge and
willingness to put up with me, I would have been out a wheel for my
wife, or very much closer to spending yet more money.
--
John Thomas McDole
Atlanta, Ga
John Rodgers on mon 28 aug 06
John,
Years ago, I owned a 1952 Beech 35 Bonanza airplane - one of those with=20
the "V" tail. It had a controllable propeller that was driven by a small=20
DC motor - nowhere near as big as a potters wheel motor. I had problems=20
with it and Beechcraft wanted $600 for a rebuilt one. - not new - but=20
rebuilt. I took it to eh local rewind shop and they rebult the thing,=20
bearigns bushings, windings, etc. charged me $65 for the job. I=20
installed the motor and it ran like a champ for 100's of hours. until I=20
got tired of it and sold it.
Point being, most any good rebuild shop should be able to fix that thing=20
for you reasonable.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
John Thomas McDole wrote:
> Sending again in case of error in the past few days:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've recently purchased an "in excellent working condition" Brent CXC
> wheel (plus kiln). Since placed quotes around the working condition,
> you can assume its not working properly. The basic problem when I got
> it (and I'm not a potter, my wife is and its a present for her, she
> was out of town at the time of purchase) was it was jerky at low
> speeds and the pedal seemed unresponsive and very noisy.
>
> The wheel was supposedly not used for 10 years; the seller wanted to
> get rid of it and the kiln. It wasn't made clear to me how long the
> wheel had set, nor that it had a previous owner for 5 years (wheel
> made in 1991). Once I had it home for a few days, the wheel became
> unresponsive to any pedal play. First though was the pedal, but the
> electronics where so simple (two pots and a rheostat) it was tested in
> a minute. Next target: the control module. I have a background in
> embedded programming and access to very gifted electrical engineers,
> so I took the control box apart and reverse engineered some schematics
> for the control module - very basic stuff. A quick check of all
> components showed nothing should have failed (if anything, the triac
> would have gone first). So what do I do? I reach up and snatch the
> wheel head... this sends the wheel spinning at top speed and throwing
> some screws across the room! hehe.
>
> Well, playing with the pedal adjustments, and letting the motor run
> for a while to work out all the 'bugs' was a good start, but the
> motor still made a lot of noise at low speed and was still jerky. My
> wife became concerned that her new gift was a dud. At this point I
> was going to take it back, but the seller is refusing to return my
> calls, getting defensive and saying it 'worked' - as if the 2 mile
> ride home magically broke the wheel.
>
> So I set forth to do more research and try to fix this, in hopes of
> having a cheap repair job. A search of the clayart list showed a few
> postings about bad bearings. To me, this sounded logical, if the
> bearings where binding up, then the motor would make a lot of noise
> (though I didn't 'click' to the idea that 1hp would have the motor
> starting every time, a product of working on seized engines in cars).
> So I pull the motor apart to check the bearings, with those checking
> out clean, I turn to the rear of the motor to check the brushes, which
> also looked clean... but what was that?
>
> Magnet Separation
>
> Has anyone ever dealt with magnet separation before? One of the 4
> large magnets had dislodged and was resting on the armature (note:
> there are 8 magnets in the motor I have, model 2BC-00885, there are 4
> smaller magnets at the head). So for that night, I re-epoxied the
> magnet and clamped it down, near perfect realignment. In the process
> though, the brushes got messed up.
>
> Now, someone's probably saying "why didn't you call brent". Well, I
> did, many times. i finally was able to talk to Bob and he was a good
> bit of help with the brushes (20$ though?!) but Brent doesn't do any
> motor work beyond brushes, so I got the number of one of their
> manufactures, Current Applications. Current Applications was a big
> help, Chris the technician was able to talk with me for a while, but
> he couldn't find the motor model anywhere - turns out they've only
> recently (~2 years) started making motors for Brent. Chris daisy
> chained me to Stature Electric, and the engineer Todd at SE was
> extremely helpful - but again, he couldn't find the model anywhere -
> turns out they started making motors in the early 90's, but only two
> models (1/2 hp?). He believed the motor was a Pacific Scientific from
> what images I had sent him, but he couldn't' be sure.
>
> If you are asking yourself, why is he trying to find the motor model /
> manufacture, simple: if the armature is broken, I'd like to find a
> replacement for the nearly one-off model Brent used. One of the
> good'ol boy motor repair shop here in Atlanta wanted to say it was
> completely hosed, even though the motor was running just the night
> before, and I started this whole mess of taking things apart to solve
> the noise / jerkiness. Now, the coil could be bad, I'll do more
> testing later when I get the brushes from Brent.
>
> Also, WW Grainger doesn't carry the brushes for this motor. They
> carry a tamped with spring set for the motors they have in stock, but
> nothing that fits the .250"x.500" brushes I was holding in my hands
> (btw, they were seized in their seats and had to be removed forcibly
> while the armature was out). I believe the brushes that were in the
> motor have a stamp mark on them, "DOIM" (if you try searching for
> that, you'll get a bunch of "department of information management"
> pages) before they were destroyed, leaving only the tops visible.
>
> So the questions are:
> 1) What are the actual part numbers for a set of brushes _not_ being
> sold by brent?
> 2) What was the manufacture of the motor with the model number
> 2BC-00885, 1hp, 1600rpm, 10.5amp, ins cl. 105A-A1, int duty, 56b, 90v
> motor!
>
> I believe, after searching around for a while, that the Scott Motor
> Inc. company made the motor - there is a picture of a lower voltage
> one that looks fairly identical on one website. After searching
> around, I found that Scott Motor is owned by Kinetek (under Imperial
> Electric), and this looks to be very close to the motor:
> http://www.imperialelectric.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=3Dimperial=
/itemdetl.html?item=3D146&lvl1=3DPMM&lvl2=3DSCR&lvl3=3D&lvl4=3D
>
> So after all is said and done; I hope that the new brushes from Brent
> will fix my problem (with only having spent a few $ fixing an
> 'excellent working condition' wheel). I hope my experience is helpful
> for any other hardware hacker, the true DIY soldier =96 or at least
> amusing to the rest of you!
>
> Many thanks go to Bob Randolph of Brent, Chris of Current
> Applications, and Todd Gardner of Stature Electric for the great help
> in researching this old wheel. With out their help, knowledge and
> willingness to put up with me, I would have been out a wheel for my
> wife, or very much closer to spending yet more money.
>
> --
> John Thomas McDole
> Atlanta, Ga
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
_______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pcl=
ink.com.
>
>
> =20
Overall's on mon 28 aug 06
John,
Excellent details and hopefully a happy ending.
I purchased a used Brent from someone who was moving.
Being the wary skeptic I am, I asked them to turn it
on to see it in action before money exchanged hands.
Looked okay so I bought it as well as the Olympic 7
cuft I now own.
When I got home and set up the wheel in the barn the
wheel head had 1/4 inch play from being horizontally
true! How come I didn't see it before was the angle I
was watching in its test run.
Went to my local Ceramic Store in Houston and
purchased another wheel head. Came home and it
revolves truer than a vertical lathe.
Cost of wheel and wheel head were half price of a new
wheel. And this one looks new. It still was a good
deal.
The only other "problem" I had was the belt came off.
After buying another belt and putting it on, it was
only the set screw that came loose and moved the
pulley out of alignment from the main fly wheel (or
whatever it's called).
Not so serious as your electrical adventures; but it
was more adventure than I wanted after just buying it.
Thanks for sharing your experience by the way.
It was amusing reading!
Kim in Houston
http://www.houstonpotters.com
--- John Thomas McDole wrote:
> Sending again in case of error in the past few days:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've recently purchased an "in excellent working
> condition" Brent CXC
> wheel (plus kiln). Since placed quotes around the
> working condition,
> you can assume its not working properly. The basic
> problem when I got
> it (and I'm not a potter, my wife is and its a
> present for her, she
> was out of town at the time of purchase) was it was
> jerky at low
> speeds and the pedal seemed unresponsive and very
> noisy.
>
> The wheel was supposedly not used for 10 years; the
> seller wanted to
> get rid of it and the kiln. It wasn't made clear to
> me how long the
> wheel had set, nor that it had a previous owner for
> 5 years (wheel
> made in 1991). Once I had it home for a few days,
> the wheel became
> unresponsive to any pedal play. First though was
> the pedal, but the
> electronics where so simple (two pots and a
> rheostat) it was tested in
> a minute. Next target: the control module. I have
> a background in
> embedded programming and access to very gifted
> electrical engineers,
> so I took the control box apart and reverse
> engineered some schematics
> for the control module - very basic stuff. A quick
> check of all
> components showed nothing should have failed (if
> anything, the triac
> would have gone first). So what do I do? I reach
> up and snatch the
> wheel head... this sends the wheel spinning at top
> speed and throwing
> some screws across the room! hehe.
>
> Well, playing with the pedal adjustments, and
> letting the motor run
> for a while to work out all the 'bugs' was a good
> start, but the
> motor still made a lot of noise at low speed and was
> still jerky. My
> wife became concerned that her new gift was a dud.
> At this point I
> was going to take it back, but the seller is
> refusing to return my
> calls, getting defensive and saying it 'worked' - as
> if the 2 mile
> ride home magically broke the wheel.
>
> So I set forth to do more research and try to fix
> this, in hopes of
> having a cheap repair job. A search of the clayart
> list showed a few
> postings about bad bearings. To me, this sounded
> logical, if the
> bearings where binding up, then the motor would make
> a lot of noise
> (though I didn't 'click' to the idea that 1hp would
> have the motor
> starting every time, a product of working on seized
> engines in cars).
> So I pull the motor apart to check the bearings,
> with those checking
> out clean, I turn to the rear of the motor to check
> the brushes, which
> also looked clean... but what was that?
>
> Magnet Separation
>
> Has anyone ever dealt with magnet separation before?
> One of the 4
> large magnets had dislodged and was resting on the
> armature (note:
> there are 8 magnets in the motor I have, model
> 2BC-00885, there are 4
> smaller magnets at the head). So for that night, I
> re-epoxied the
> magnet and clamped it down, near perfect
> realignment. In the process
> though, the brushes got messed up.
>
> Now, someone's probably saying "why didn't you call
> brent". Well, I
> did, many times. i finally was able to talk to Bob
> and he was a good
> bit of help with the brushes (20$ though?!) but
> Brent doesn't do any
> motor work beyond brushes, so I got the number of
> one of their
> manufactures, Current Applications. Current
> Applications was a big
> help, Chris the technician was able to talk with me
> for a while, but
> he couldn't find the motor model anywhere - turns
> out they've only
> recently (~2 years) started making motors for Brent.
> Chris daisy
> chained me to Stature Electric, and the engineer
> Todd at SE was
> extremely helpful - but again, he couldn't find the
> model anywhere -
> turns out they started making motors in the early
> 90's, but only two
> models (1/2 hp?). He believed the motor was a
> Pacific Scientific from
> what images I had sent him, but he couldn't' be
> sure.
>
> If you are asking yourself, why is he trying to find
> the motor model /
> manufacture, simple: if the armature is broken, I'd
> like to find a
> replacement for the nearly one-off model Brent used.
> One of the
> good'ol boy motor repair shop here in Atlanta wanted
> to say it was
> completely hosed, even though the motor was running
> just the night
> before, and I started this whole mess of taking
> things apart to solve
> the noise / jerkiness. Now, the coil could be bad,
> I'll do more
> testing later when I get the brushes from Brent.
>
> Also, WW Grainger doesn't carry the brushes for this
> motor. They
> carry a tamped with spring set for the motors they
> have in stock, but
> nothing that fits the .250"x.500" brushes I was
> holding in my hands
> (btw, they were seized in their seats and had to be
> removed forcibly
> while the armature was out). I believe the brushes
> that were in the
> motor have a stamp mark on them, "DOIM" (if you try
> searching for
> that, you'll get a bunch of "department of
> information management"
> pages) before they were destroyed, leaving only the
> tops visible.
>
> So the questions are:
> 1) What are the actual part numbers for a set of
> brushes _not_ being
> sold by brent?
> 2) What was the manufacture of the motor with the
> model number
> 2BC-00885, 1hp, 1600rpm, 10.5amp, ins cl. 105A-A1,
> int duty, 56b, 90v
> motor!
>
> I believe, after searching around for a while, that
> the Scott Motor
> Inc. company made the motor - there is a picture of
> a lower voltage
> one that looks fairly identical on one website.
> After searching
> around, I found that Scott Motor is owned by Kinetek
> (under Imperial
> Electric), and this looks to be very close to the
> motor:
>
http://www.imperialelectric.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=imperial/itemdetl.html?item=146&lvl1=PMM&lvl2=SCR&lvl3=&lvl4=
>
> So after all is said and done; I hope that the new
> brushes from Brent
> will fix my problem (with only having spent a few $
> fixing an
> 'excellent working condition' wheel). I hope my
> experience is helpful
> for any other hardware hacker, the true DIY soldier
> – or at least
> amusing to the rest of you!
>
> Many thanks go to Bob Randolph of Brent, Chris of
> Current
> Applications, and Todd Gardner of Stature Electric
> for the great help
> in researching this old wheel. With out their help,
> knowledge and
> willingness to put up with me, I would have been out
> a wheel for my
> wife, or very much closer to spending yet more
> money.
>
> --
> John Thomas McDole
> Atlanta, Ga
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Kim Overall
http://www.houstonpotters.com
John Thomas McDole on tue 29 aug 06
Hi Kim,
I spent a little more than I should have on the wheel. The total package included a kiln though.. but, the deal was a bit deceiving! I'm not a potter, so I didn't know all the "gotcha's" in buying a wheel, or kiln for that matter, but my wife is, and this package was a present for her birthday. To me, seeing the prices of newer wheels and then seeing the price of this wheel+kiln, I was very happy.
Then I got home.
The kiln was a no-frills design. There is no auto shutoff. The wiring was from the 70's (yes, they didn't make the nema 20A plug anymore, nor do they make cloth wires!). The only electrical switch on the thing is a rotary knob with "off, low, medium, high" selections!. I contacted Paragon and they told me they dont even have the serial cards for those models anymore!
Well, you already know the wheel story (which turned out successfull, and the seller gave me 50$ cash for the parts). The kiln was a simple re-wiring job. I used 10gauge wire and made a new 30A dryer connection downstairs, along with re-wriring the kiln to have a 4 wire plug (the metal exterior was connected to common!!!!!). I tested it out over the weekend and the elements glow just fine.
Next time, I'll know a lot more before buying. I'm just happy because my wife is stoked.
-
John Thomas McDole
>
> From: Overall's
> Date: 2006/08/28 Mon PM 05:11:15 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Brent CXC Motor repair
>
> John,
>
> Excellent details and hopefully a happy ending.
>
> I purchased a used Brent from someone who was moving.
> Being the wary skeptic I am, I asked them to turn it
> on to see it in action before money exchanged hands.
> Looked okay so I bought it as well as the Olympic 7
> cuft I now own.
>
> When I got home and set up the wheel in the barn the
> wheel head had 1/4 inch play from being horizontally
> true! How come I didn't see it before was the angle I
> was watching in its test run.
>
> Went to my local Ceramic Store in Houston and
> purchased another wheel head. Came home and it
> revolves truer than a vertical lathe.
>
> Cost of wheel and wheel head were half price of a new
> wheel. And this one looks new. It still was a good
> deal.
>
> The only other "problem" I had was the belt came off.
> After buying another belt and putting it on, it was
> only the set screw that came loose and moved the
> pulley out of alignment from the main fly wheel (or
> whatever it's called).
>
> Not so serious as your electrical adventures; but it
> was more adventure than I wanted after just buying it.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience by the way.
> It was amusing reading!
>
> Kim in Houston
> http://www.houstonpotters.com
>
>
> --- John Thomas McDole wrote:
>
> > Sending again in case of error in the past few days:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've recently purchased an "in excellent working
> > condition" Brent CXC
> > wheel (plus kiln). Since placed quotes around the
> > working condition,
> > you can assume its not working properly. The basic
> > problem when I got
> > it (and I'm not a potter, my wife is and its a
> > present for her, she
> > was out of town at the time of purchase) was it was
> > jerky at low
> > speeds and the pedal seemed unresponsive and very
> > noisy.
> >
> > The wheel was supposedly not used for 10 years; the
> > seller wanted to
> > get rid of it and the kiln. It wasn't made clear to
> > me how long the
> > wheel had set, nor that it had a previous owner for
> > 5 years (wheel
> > made in 1991). Once I had it home for a few days,
> > the wheel became
> > unresponsive to any pedal play. First though was
> > the pedal, but the
> > electronics where so simple (two pots and a
> > rheostat) it was tested in
> > a minute. Next target: the control module. I have
> > a background in
> > embedded programming and access to very gifted
> > electrical engineers,
> > so I took the control box apart and reverse
> > engineered some schematics
> > for the control module - very basic stuff. A quick
> > check of all
> > components showed nothing should have failed (if
> > anything, the triac
> > would have gone first). So what do I do? I reach
> > up and snatch the
> > wheel head... this sends the wheel spinning at top
> > speed and throwing
> > some screws across the room! hehe.
> >
> > Well, playing with the pedal adjustments, and
> > letting the motor run
> > for a while to work out all the 'bugs' was a good
> > start, but the
> > motor still made a lot of noise at low speed and was
> > still jerky. My
> > wife became concerned that her new gift was a dud.
> > At this point I
> > was going to take it back, but the seller is
> > refusing to return my
> > calls, getting defensive and saying it 'worked' - as
> > if the 2 mile
> > ride home magically broke the wheel.
> >
> > So I set forth to do more research and try to fix
> > this, in hopes of
> > having a cheap repair job. A search of the clayart
> > list showed a few
> > postings about bad bearings. To me, this sounded
> > logical, if the
> > bearings where binding up, then the motor would make
> > a lot of noise
> > (though I didn't 'click' to the idea that 1hp would
> > have the motor
> > starting every time, a product of working on seized
> > engines in cars).
> > So I pull the motor apart to check the bearings,
> > with those checking
> > out clean, I turn to the rear of the motor to check
> > the brushes, which
> > also looked clean... but what was that?
> >
> > Magnet Separation
> >
> > Has anyone ever dealt with magnet separation before?
> > One of the 4
> > large magnets had dislodged and was resting on the
> > armature (note:
> > there are 8 magnets in the motor I have, model
> > 2BC-00885, there are 4
> > smaller magnets at the head). So for that night, I
> > re-epoxied the
> > magnet and clamped it down, near perfect
> > realignment. In the process
> > though, the brushes got messed up.
> >
> > Now, someone's probably saying "why didn't you call
> > brent". Well, I
> > did, many times. i finally was able to talk to Bob
> > and he was a good
> > bit of help with the brushes (20$ though?!) but
> > Brent doesn't do any
> > motor work beyond brushes, so I got the number of
> > one of their
> > manufactures, Current Applications. Current
> > Applications was a big
> > help, Chris the technician was able to talk with me
> > for a while, but
> > he couldn't find the motor model anywhere - turns
> > out they've only
> > recently (~2 years) started making motors for Brent.
> > Chris daisy
> > chained me to Stature Electric, and the engineer
> > Todd at SE was
> > extremely helpful - but again, he couldn't find the
> > model anywhere -
> > turns out they started making motors in the early
> > 90's, but only two
> > models (1/2 hp?). He believed the motor was a
> > Pacific Scientific from
> > what images I had sent him, but he couldn't' be
> > sure.
> >
> > If you are asking yourself, why is he trying to find
> > the motor model /
> > manufacture, simple: if the armature is broken, I'd
> > like to find a
> > replacement for the nearly one-off model Brent used.
> > One of the
> > good'ol boy motor repair shop here in Atlanta wanted
> > to say it was
> > completely hosed, even though the motor was running
> > just the night
> > before, and I started this whole mess of taking
> > things apart to solve
> > the noise / jerkiness. Now, the coil could be bad,
> > I'll do more
> > testing later when I get the brushes from Brent.
> >
> > Also, WW Grainger doesn't carry the brushes for this
> > motor. They
> > carry a tamped with spring set for the motors they
> > have in stock, but
> > nothing that fits the .250"x.500" brushes I was
> > holding in my hands
> > (btw, they were seized in their seats and had to be
> > removed forcibly
> > while the armature was out). I believe the brushes
> > that were in the
> > motor have a stamp mark on them, "DOIM" (if you try
> > searching for
> > that, you'll get a bunch of "department of
> > information management"
> > pages) before they were destroyed, leaving only the
> > tops visible.
> >
> > So the questions are:
> > 1) What are the actual part numbers for a set of
> > brushes _not_ being
> > sold by brent?
> > 2) What was the manufacture of the motor with the
> > model number
> > 2BC-00885, 1hp, 1600rpm, 10.5amp, ins cl. 105A-A1,
> > int duty, 56b, 90v
> > motor!
> >
> > I believe, after searching around for a while, that
> > the Scott Motor
> > Inc. company made the motor - there is a picture of
> > a lower voltage
> > one that looks fairly identical on one website.
> > After searching
> > around, I found that Scott Motor is owned by Kinetek
> > (under Imperial
> > Electric), and this looks to be very close to the
> > motor:
> >
> http://www.imperialelectric.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=imperial/itemdetl.html?item=146&lvl1=PMM&lvl2=SCR&lvl3=&lvl4=
> >
> > So after all is said and done; I hope that the new
> > brushes from Brent
> > will fix my problem (with only having spent a few $
> > fixing an
> > 'excellent working condition' wheel). I hope my
> > experience is helpful
> > for any other hardware hacker, the true DIY soldier
> > – or at least
> > amusing to the rest of you!
> >
> > Many thanks go to Bob Randolph of Brent, Chris of
> > Current
> > Applications, and Todd Gardner of Stature Electric
> > for the great help
> > in researching this old wheel. With out their help,
> > knowledge and
> > willingness to put up with me, I would have been out
> > a wheel for my
> > wife, or very much closer to spending yet more
> > money.
> >
> > --
> > John Thomas McDole
> > Atlanta, Ga
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change
> > your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> > reached at melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
> Kim Overall
> http://www.houstonpotters.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
John Thomas McDole on tue 29 aug 06
Hi John,
Thanks for the story! I've already successfully rebuilt the motor by simply expoying the magnet and replacing the brushes and bearings. Total cost (minus shipping) was 35$. Cost to re-wrap the motor at a local DC motor repair shop, 125$ - something that is well worth the cost if and when I need that level of repair.
To other people out there who might have motor problems: Brushed DC motors are very simple creatures. The consist of very few parts (permanent magnets, armature/rotor, brushes and bearings). There are very few things that go wrong with them, and the cost to repair them is far less than the cost to buy a new one! Once repaired, your motor will run like new!
--
John Thomas McDoleAtlanta, Ga
>
> From: John Rodgers
> Date: 2006/08/28 Mon PM 08:16:06 EDT> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> Subject: Re: Brent CXC Motor repair
>
> John,
>
> Years ago, I owned a 1952 Beech 35 Bonanza airplane - one of those with
> the "V" tail. It had a controllable propeller that was driven by a small
> DC motor - nowhere near as big as a potters wheel motor. I had problems
> with it and Beechcraft wanted $600 for a rebuilt one. - not new - but
> rebuilt. I took it to eh local rewind shop and they rebult the thing,
> bearigns bushings, windings, etc. charged me $65 for the job. I
> installed the motor and it ran like a champ for 100's of hours. until I
> got tired of it and sold it.
>
> Point being, most any good rebuild shop should be able to fix that thing
> for you reasonable.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers> Chelsea, AL
>
> John Thomas McDole wrote:
> > Sending again in case of error in the past few days:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've recently purchased an "in excellent working condition" Brent CXC> > wheel (plus kiln). Since placed quotes around the working condition,
> > you can assume its not working properly. The basic problem when I got
> > it (and I'm not a potter, my wife is and its a present for her, she
> > was out of town at the time of purchase) was it was jerky at low
> > speeds and the pedal seemed unresponsive and very noisy.
> >
> > The wheel was supposedly not used for 10 years; the seller wanted to
> > get rid of it and the kiln. It wasn't made clear to me how long the
> > wheel had set, nor that it had a previous owner for 5 years (wheel
> > made in 1991). Once I had it home for a few days, the wheel became
> > unresponsive to any pedal play. First though was the pedal, but the
> > electronics where so simple (two pots and a rheostat) it was tested in
> > a minute. Next target: the control module. I have a background in
> > embedded programming and access to very gifted electrical engineers,
> > so I took the control box apart and reverse engineered some schematics
> > for the control module - very basic stuff. A quick check of all
> > components showed nothing should have failed (if anything, the triac> > would have gone first). So what do I do? I reach up and snatch the
> > wheel head... this sends the wheel spinning at top speed and throwing
> > some screws across the room! hehe.
> >
> > Well, playing with the pedal adjustments, and letting the motor run
> > for a while to work out all the 'bugs' was a good start, but the
> > motor still made a lot of noise at low speed and was still jerky. My
> > wife became concerned that her new gift was a dud. At this point I
> > was going to take it back, but the seller is refusing to return my
> > calls, getting defensive and saying it 'worked' - as if the 2 mile
> > ride home magically broke the wheel.
> >
> > So I set forth to do more research and try to fix this, in hopes of
> > having a cheap repair job. A search of the clayart list showed a few
> > postings about bad bearings. To me, this sounded logical, if the
> > bearings where binding up, then the motor would make a lot of noise
> > (though I didn't 'click' to the idea that 1hp would have the motor
> > starting every time, a product of working on seized engines in cars).
> > So I pull the motor apart to check the bearings, with those checking
> > out clean, I turn to the rear of the motor to check the brushes, which
> > also looked clean... but what was that?
> >
> > Magnet Separation
> >
> > Has anyone ever dealt with magnet separation before? One of the 4
> > large magnets had dislodged and was resting on the armature (note:
> > there are 8 magnets in the motor I have, model 2BC-00885, there are 4
> > smaller magnets at the head). So for that night, I re-epoxied the
> > magnet and clamped it down, near perfect realignment. In the process
> > though, the brushes got messed up.
> >
> > Now, someone's probably saying "why didn't you call brent". Well, I
> > did, many times. i finally was able to talk to Bob and he was a good
> > bit of help with the brushes (20$ though?!) but Brent doesn't do any
> > motor work beyond brushes, so I got the number of one of their
> > manufactures, Current Applications. Current Applications was a big
> > help, Chris the technician was able to talk with me for a while, but
> > he couldn't find the motor model anywhere - turns out they've only
> > recently (~2 years) started making motors for Brent. Chris daisy
> > chained me to Stature Electric, and the engineer Todd at SE was
> > extremely helpful - but again, he couldn't find the model anywhere -
> > turns out they started making motors in the early 90's, but only two
> > models (1/2 hp?). He believed the motor was a Pacific Scientific from
> > what images I had sent him, but he couldn't' be sure.
> >
> > If you are asking yourself, why is he trying to find the motor model /
> > manufacture, simple: if the armature is broken, I'd like to find a
> > replacement for the nearly one-off model Brent used. One of the
> > good'ol boy motor repair shop here in Atlanta wanted to say it was
> > completely hosed, even though the motor was running just the night
> > before, and I started this whole mess of taking things apart to solve
> > the noise / jerkiness. Now, the coil could be bad, I'll do more
> > testing later when I get the brushes from Brent.
> >
> > Also, WW Grainger doesn't carry the brushes for this motor. They
> > carry a tamped with spring set for the motors they have in stock, but
> > nothing that fits the .250"x.500" brushes I was holding in my hands
> > (btw, they were seized in their seats and had to be removed forcibly
> > while the armature was out). I believe the brushes that were in the
> > motor have a stamp mark on them, "DOIM" (if you try searching for
> > that, you'll get a bunch of "department of information management"
> > pages) before they were destroyed, leaving only the tops visible.
> >
> > So the questions are:
> > 1) What are the actual part numbers for a set of brushes _not_ being
> > sold by brent?
> > 2) What was the manufacture of the motor with the model number
> > 2BC-00885, 1hp, 1600rpm, 10.5amp, ins cl. 105A-A1, int duty, 56b, 90v
> > motor!
> >
> > I believe, after searching around for a while, that the Scott Motor
> > Inc. company made the motor - there is a picture of a lower voltage
> > one that looks fairly identical on one website. After searching
> > around, I found that Scott Motor is owned by Kinetek (under Imperial
> > Electric), and this looks to be very close to the motor:
> > http://www.imperialelectric.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=imperial/itemdetl.html?item=146&lvl1=PMM&lvl2=SCR&lvl3=&lvl4=
> >
> > So after all is said and done; I hope that the new brushes from Brent
> > will fix my problem (with only having spent a few $ fixing an
> > 'excellent working condition' wheel). I hope my experience is helpful
> > for any other hardware hacker, the true DIY soldier ? or at least
> > amusing to the rest of you!
> >
> > Many thanks go to Bob Randolph of Brent, Chris of Current
> > Applications, and Todd Gardner of Stature Electric for the great help
> > in researching this old wheel. With out their help, knowledge and
> > willingness to put up with me, I would have been out a wheel for my
> > wife, or very much closer to spending yet more money.
> >
> > --
> > John Thomas McDole> > Atlanta, Ga
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
John Thomas McDole on tue 29 aug 06
Hi David,
Yes indeed; your post was one of the reasons I started looking further into the motor and what was going on. For anyone else out there wanting to know how a DC motor works, check out wikipedia.org:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Motor
Or howstuffworks.com:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/motor.htm
Both sites of a ton of valuable information.
Thanks again for your original May of 2000 post, David.
-
John Thomas McDole
"Still learning how to center clay" :)
>
> From: David Hendley
> Date: 2006/08/29 Tue PM 06:27:57 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Brent CXC Motor repair
>
> > To other people out there who might have motor problems: Brushed DC motors
> > are very simple creatures. The consist of very few parts (permanent
> > magnets, armature/rotor, brushes and bearings). There are very few things
> > that go wrong with them, and the cost to repair them is far less than the
> > cost to buy a new one! Once repaired, your motor will run like new!
>
> I am writing in to second this statement.
> After I'd had my wheel in storage for 6 years it would not run.
> I discovered that the brushes were frozen in place. Very gentle
> heating with a torch freed them and the motor then worked fine.
>
> A few years later, the wheel started making an awful chirping
> and grinding noise. I traced it back to the motor. It was not difficult
> to take the motor apart, remove the bearings, take them to the
> bearing supply store, and buy replacements.
> I wrote step-by-step instructions for this procedure, easy enough
> for a complete repair novice to follow, and posted it to Clayart.
>
> If you would like to read it, here is the link for the entry in the
> archives:
> Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:57:04 EDT
> Sender: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> From: David Hendley
> Subject: The crickets are dead
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> david(at)farmpots(dot)com
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
David Hendley on tue 29 aug 06
> To other people out there who might have motor problems: Brushed DC motors
> are very simple creatures. The consist of very few parts (permanent
> magnets, armature/rotor, brushes and bearings). There are very few things
> that go wrong with them, and the cost to repair them is far less than the
> cost to buy a new one! Once repaired, your motor will run like new!
I am writing in to second this statement.
After I'd had my wheel in storage for 6 years it would not run.
I discovered that the brushes were frozen in place. Very gentle
heating with a torch freed them and the motor then worked fine.
A few years later, the wheel started making an awful chirping
and grinding noise. I traced it back to the motor. It was not difficult
to take the motor apart, remove the bearings, take them to the
bearing supply store, and buy replacements.
I wrote step-by-step instructions for this procedure, easy enough
for a complete repair novice to follow, and posted it to Clayart.
If you would like to read it, here is the link for the entry in the
archives:
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:57:04 EDT
Sender: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
From: David Hendley
Subject: The crickets are dead
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
Maurice Weitman on wed 30 aug 06
At 17:27 -0500 on 8/29/06, David Hendley wrote:
>[...] If you would like to read it, here is the link for the entry in the
>archives:
>Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:57:04 EDT
>Sender: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>From: David Hendley
>Subject: The crickets are dead
Actually, this link might be easier to use:
Long live the crickets!
Regards,
Maurice
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