Steve Slatin on thu 31 aug 06
Annie --
You don't need toxins in the glaze to make being near a firing kiln
dangerous. There's plenty of CO and CO2 in a firing (my impression
is that it's more so in bisque firings than glaze firings) that you do NOT
want in your house. Venting makes lots of sense -- if the workspace
is under your living space, you will want to reduce exposure by any
means possible. Are there other options? Sure! I went without the
vent, but my kiln is in my studio, over 100 ft. from my house. I try to
stay out when it's firing.
If a vent-sure is too expensive, there're plans on the web provided by
a ClayArter (can't remember who) to build one from readily available
materials for very little.
And even if you think that there're no toxins in your glaze, it's
always possible that there are materials in the clay itself that you'd
rather not be exposed to. I suspect some clays (including the brown
speckled clay I use myself) have some manganese in them, which
may be dangerous.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
Annie D wrote:
Hi!
O.k., please forgive my heading being so corny...
I got so much help with the choosing of the wheel and kiln that i thought maybe the fire-gods would grant me one more wish...
I was told by distributors of L&L as well as L&L staff, that the vent-sure system was a must but it is more to protect the long life of the kiln than to
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Annie D on thu 31 aug 06
Hi!
O.k., please forgive my heading being so corny...
I got so much help with the choosing of the wheel and kiln that i thought maybe the fire-gods would grant me one more wish...
I was told by distributors of L&L as well as L&L staff, that the vent-sure system was a must but it is more to protect the long life of the kiln than to remove fumes and such, ... that it would draw negative ions out ... basically that it was meant to protect my investment and stop it from rusting out. However, i have also heard from a few potters out there that the vent is optional. I am planning on installing the kiln in an unfinished basement near the basement door (with a window that opens in it) and near a small window (12x24) both of which give onto the partly covered basement entrance. I also have an old square 3x3ft floor fan which i use down there when working with strippers and solvents for aeration. We also have quite a few small fan kicking around that we use during heat waves. No need for AC here,... Brrr...
I am thinking of buying a cone 10 kiln for firing at cone 8 generally, the e23s-3. I don't plan on using anything toxic as far as i know...
Anyhoo, the basement is minimally heated most times in the winter, we try to keep it at 10c,thats about 50F... although that might change if i'm down there quite a bit.
There is a bit of dampness, especially in the spring.
I welcome opinions from both sides in helping with this $400 decision.
To Vent-sure or not to venture, that is the question...
Much appreciate all the help i've gotten so far. I would have taken weeks to choose the kiln and wheel and doubted and angst'd, in 2 days its pretty much sorted
Anne
Deborah Woods on fri 1 sep 06
Anne. This is a no-brainer. You really should have a vent on a kiln if it
is indoors. ESPECIALLY if it is in your house! This is NOT where to save
money. Any other ventilation you may have is a bonus, window, a fan (I
assume you mean it is installed in the wall to suck fumes out?) There are
several brands you can shop to price compare. You very likely don't have to
buy L and L's. Skutt has one, so does Orton I think and Bailey Ceramics in
NY. And Baileys is only about 240$ which will vent one kiln up to 10 cu ft.
or something. That's the one I have and it works fine. Don't kid yourself
that there is nothing toxic when you are firing. These fumes can be very
dangerous. I've been in the kiln room when I was in college without my
respirator on and within seconds you could taste something in your mouth,
and within minutes you felt not right in the head (the ventilation was
probably not the greatest in there, but it was an isolated room and we
usually wore our masks). I hope you get a vent. As a bonus, it is rumored
that it helps to increase the oxygen in the kiln resulting in better colors.
Makes sense to me.
Deborah Woods
madmudpottery
Ron Roy on fri 1 sep 06
Hi Annie,
Get the vent system - they are much better at getting the toxic fumes from
clay and glazes - out. Much better than fans and windows.
Don't believe that there are no toxins in clays and glazes - there are
always some.
And your kiln will last longer - RR
>O.k., please forgive my heading being so corny...
>I got so much help with the choosing of the wheel and kiln that i
>thought maybe the fire-gods would grant me one more wish...
>I was told by distributors of L&L as well as L&L
>staff, that the vent-sure system was a must but it is more to protect
>the long life of the kiln than to remove fumes and such, ... that it would
>draw negative ions out ... basically that it was meant to protect my
>investment and stop it from rusting out. However, i have also heard from a
>few potters out there that the vent is optional. I am planning on
>installing the kiln in an unfinished basement near the basement door (with
>a window that opens in it) and near a small window (12x24) both of
>which give onto the partly covered basement entrance. I also have an
>old square 3x3ft floor fan which i use down there when working with
>strippers and solvents for aeration. We also have quite a few small fan
>kicking around that we use during heat waves. No need for AC here,...
>Brrr...
>I am thinking of buying a cone 10 kiln for firing at cone 8 generally,
>the e23s-3. I don't plan on using anything toxic as far as i
>know...
>Anyhoo, the basement is minimally heated most times in the winter, we
>try to keep it at 10c,thats about 50F... although that might change
>if i'm down there quite a bit.
>There is a bit of dampness, especially in the spring.
>I welcome opinions from both sides in helping with this $400 decision.
>To Vent-sure or not to venture, that is the question...
>Much appreciate all the help i've gotten so far. I would have taken
>weeks to choose the kiln and wheel and doubted and angst'd, in 2 days its
>pretty much sorted
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Richard White on fri 1 sep 06
Yes, vent it. Absolutely, no question. The Vent-sure is better than some of
the other types, and fits right on the L&L stand. During a firing, all
sorts of gases (some possibly toxic in high concentrations, some corrosive
over time, some merely unpleasant smelling) are produced and must be
exhausted to the outdoors. You can punch a hole through the wall (same size
as a clothes dryer vent) and mount the vent motor permanently, or put it on
a board that you set in an open window each time you use it.
One other consideration (that I fumbled slightly when installing my kiln in
the garage...) is overall airflow. The vent will pull out the stinky air
from the kiln by pulling clean air through from underneath. That means you
need a robust source of clean air coming into the room. If you pump the
stinky air out through an opening in the wall that is anywhere near another
opening that would allow makeup air back into the room, e.g., another open
window, door or roof vent, the stinky exhaust will be sucked right back
into the room due to the negative air pressure created by the vent. In
other words, when you are running the vent, make sure there is a window,
door, or other source of fresh air coming in from a different wall or a
decent distance away. Take that requirement into consideration when
deciding where to put the exhaust pipe in the first place.
dw
Mayssan Shora Farra on fri 1 sep 06
Hello Annie:
I dfinitely would say buy the vent that sits on the wall with the intake
under the kiln. I have it in a detached garage but used not to be able to
work when the kiln is firing because of fumes, (now I can't because of
heat ;)).
It also seems to help keep the elements alive longer, and make the heat
more even in the kiln.
I love mine
Mayssan, awaiting the wrath of Ernesto in Charleston WV
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
William & Susan Schran User on fri 1 sep 06
On 8/31/06 1:32 PM, "Annie D" wrote:
> I was told by distributors of L&L as well as L&L staff, that the vent-sur=
e
> system was a must but it is more to protect the long life of the kiln tha=
n to
> remove fumes and such, ... that it would draw negative ions out ... basic=
ally
> that it was meant to protect my investment and stop it from rusting out.
> However, i have also heard from a few potters out there that the vent is
> optional. I am planning on installing the kiln in an unfinished basement =
near
> the basement door (with a window that opens in it) and near a small windo=
w
> (12x24) both of which give onto the partly covered basement entrance. I a=
lso
> have an old square 3x3ft floor fan which i use down there when working wi=
th
> strippers and solvents for aeration.
Annie,
No, you don=B9t need to purchase the Vent-Sure system that L&L sells, but I
would suggest in the strongest terms that you do install some type of vent
system and I would recommend a downdraft direct vent system that has the
motor/fan assembly mounted away from the kiln which creates, when properly
sealed, negative air pressure. This type of system will remove most organic
gasses that are released when the clay is fired in the kiln. This process
also releases carbon monoxide which you will not be able to detect without =
a
carbon monoxide detector, that might be a good investment also. So even
though you=B9re not using anything =B3toxic=B2 in your glazes, you will be
producing toxic/harmful fumes/gasses.
This vent system will also remove moisture that is released from the clay a=
s
it is heated, so yes, it will lengthen the life of the kiln by preventing
the brick from absorbing that moisture and from accumulating on the metal
exterior of the kiln.
I had my kiln in the basement of townhouse. I bought a cap type vent, one
that lowers over the kiln top. This did not remove the fumes/moisture from
the kiln, but collected them after they exited, and never did a very good
job of it. We could smell the fumes from the kiln all the way up on the
third floor! After replacing that vent with a direct downdraft vent, we
never smelled fumes anymore.
As I wrote above, you don=B9t have to but the L&L system, I bought the Bailey
system for my older L&L. I have my kiln located near a window that I open,
insert a piece of plywood that has the motor/fan attached, and close the
window on that. Makes it very easy to secure the window after using the
vent.=20
Some handy folks have built their own systems. But with the new stands that
come with L&L kilns, there is a hole in the center of the stand to mount a
collection box, as part of their vent system, to which their flexible duct
attaches that is attached to the motor/fan assembly.
I think $400 is a rather small investment to make to lengthen the life of
the kiln, and perhaps to lengthen your life!
FYI =AD I=B9m getting e23s next week! I=B9m going to pick it up at L&L and get a
tour of the factory.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Mark Tigges on fri 1 sep 06
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 11:07:08AM -0400, William & Susan Schran User=
wrote:
> On 8/31/06 1:32 PM, "Annie D" wrote:
>=20
> > I was told by distributors of L&L as well as L&L staff, that the =
vent-sure
> > system was a must but it is more to protect the long life of the =
kiln than to
> > remove fumes and such, ... that it would draw negative ions out .=
.. basically
> you don=B9t have to but the L&L system, I bought the Bailey
> system for my older L&L. I have my kiln located near a window that =
I open,
> insert a piece of plywood that has the motor/fan attached, and clos=
e the
> window on that. Makes it very easy to secure the window after using=
the
> vent.=20
Bills right. In fact, you don't have to buy anybodies system ... mak=
e
it yourself.
www.m2crafts.ca/vent.html
Mark.
--=20
http://www.m2crafts.ca
m2crafts [at] gmail=20
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