Lee Love on mon 18 sep 06
On 9/18/06, Sandy Miller wrote:
>
> Mel,
> Had to respond to this...... I think this may well work for gas firing
> but not so sure about oxidation. I have rounded off many glazes in my day
> and I have gone back to calibrating my scales and observing my decimal
> points and I don't have a digital scale, still using the Ohaus triple beam.
Sandy,
All my ash glazes are by wet ladel measure, no scales used at all. My
main glaze is 3 ash 2 ball clay and 1 amakusa stone. I sometimes add a
little kaolin, if the ash is too soft. It is a good way to work and
helps keep you from breathing glaze material dust. The big bonus with ash
glazes, is that you don't have to dry them out before mixing the glaze.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Beverlin's Rare on mon 18 sep 06
I was wondering where my post was for my studio for
sale was. I have not seen it at all.. what do I need
to do?
--- mel jacobson wrote:
> one hint.
>
> use pounds.
>
> i do.
> i convert all of my standard recipes/formula to
> pounds.
>
> here is how.
> west high math, 1953.
>
> grams, let us say 1600 grams.
>
> X .0022= 3.52 pounds.
> round that to 3 and half pounds.
> use a cute little hand held calculator...save your
> pencil lead.
>
> if you are fussy about 12 grams.
> don't convert it...just measure 12 grams.
> so, you use both methods.
>
> it is like my rhodes 32
> 11 pounds of feldspar
> 5.5 pounds china
> 5.5 dolomite
> .5 pounds whiting.
> some silica. to taste.
> some rutile/iron to taste.
> i use an old store/ portable scale. tare the
> container.
> i have never been able to tell one way or the other
> if i have 16 grams of feldspar toooo much.
> who cares.
> ?
> mel
> at the high school, years back...volcanic ash was in
> a 60 pound
> bag, gertsley was 40...mmm, i wonder why i chose a
> 60/40 mix.
> dump the bags in a 50 gallon drum...add water.
> stir. make life easy. can you imagine weighing out
> 100 pounds
> with a gram scale...and then worry about it?
>
>
>
> from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>
> Clayart page link:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
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mel jacobson on mon 18 sep 06
one hint.
use pounds.
i do.
i convert all of my standard recipes/formula to pounds.
here is how.
west high math, 1953.
grams, let us say 1600 grams.
X .0022= 3.52 pounds.
round that to 3 and half pounds.
use a cute little hand held calculator...save your
pencil lead.
if you are fussy about 12 grams.
don't convert it...just measure 12 grams.
so, you use both methods.
it is like my rhodes 32
11 pounds of feldspar
5.5 pounds china
5.5 dolomite
.5 pounds whiting.
some silica. to taste.
some rutile/iron to taste.
i use an old store/ portable scale. tare the container.
i have never been able to tell one way or the other
if i have 16 grams of feldspar toooo much.
who cares.
?
mel
at the high school, years back...volcanic ash was in a 60 pound
bag, gertsley was 40...mmm, i wonder why i chose a 60/40 mix.
dump the bags in a 50 gallon drum...add water.
stir. make life easy. can you imagine weighing out 100 pounds
with a gram scale...and then worry about it?
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Lee Love on mon 18 sep 06
I use a Kilogram bath scale for larger weights.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Sandy Miller on mon 18 sep 06
Mel,
Had to respond to this...... I think this may well work for gas firing but not so sure about oxidation. I have rounded off many glazes in my day and I have gone back to calibrating my scales and observing my decimal points and I don't have a digital scale, still using the Ohaus triple beam. They are changing chemical suppliers and mines everyday. If I am very precise and keeping good records I might have an indication if I start to loose a glaze, it happens. It's getting more and more expensive to make glazes............. I just bought a bag of zinc oxide for $185.00..........Amercian! Yes, Brian Gartside is out there making volume glazes and so are some other folks but just not convinced it works for everybody.
just thoughts from an dyslexic anal potter who has a hard enough time converting percentages to grams. LOL!
Sandy Miller
www.sandymillerpottery.com
mel jacobson wrote:
one hint.
use pounds.
i do.
i convert all of my standard recipes/formula to pounds.
here is how.
west high math, 1953.
grams, let us say 1600 grams.
X .0022= 3.52 pounds.
round that to 3 and half pounds.
use a cute little hand held calculator...save your
pencil lead.
if you are fussy about 12 grams.
don't convert it...just measure 12 grams.
so, you use both methods.
it is like my rhodes 32
11 pounds of feldspar
5.5 pounds china
5.5 dolomite
.5 pounds whiting.
some silica. to taste.
some rutile/iron to taste.
i use an old store/ portable scale. tare the container.
i have never been able to tell one way or the other
if i have 16 grams of feldspar toooo much.
who cares.
?
mel
at the high school, years back...volcanic ash was in a 60 pound
bag, gertsley was 40...mmm, i wonder why i chose a 60/40 mix.
dump the bags in a 50 gallon drum...add water.
stir. make life easy. can you imagine weighing out 100 pounds
with a gram scale...and then worry about it?
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Bonnie Staffel on tue 19 sep 06
Mel, your post hits home to me. I make large batches of my singular =
glaze
and over the years have used different scales. But I learned early on =
that
altering the grams to pounds and ounces sure saves time and effort. =
Mixing
a glaze is not my favorite sport so when my batch in the laundry tub =
gets
down to six inches, I know it is time to get more made. You would laugh =
at
what I am using now. Long ago we would go to bakery sell outs for used
equipment. Picked up an ancient balance scale with some one and two =
pound
weights and a two pound beam. It has a nice big tray that looks hand =
made
with the soldering of the rim to the bottom looking primitive, which =
holds
quite a lot of dry material as well. Since there is no piece of =
equipment
on the scale that tells me when it is balanced, I have to eyeball it,
telling myself with such large quantities a little bit off here and =
there is
moot. =20
Once on a trip to the Upper Peninsula came across an A&P store going out =
of
business. There was a meat scale for sale and we decided to buy it. I =
am
sure many of you remember when there were real butchers who cut real =
meat
and weighed it right in front of you I trucked it around in my =
various
studio moves around the country, but at the last one in NC foolishly =
decided
to give it to a friend. It was a perfect no nonsense scale, white =
enamel
tray. It might be too heavy for me to move around the studio now but =
the
adventures of acquiring a lot of my equipment as I use them bring me =
back to
those memories. =20
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Hank Murrow on tue 19 sep 06
On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> Mel, your post hits home to me. I make large batches of my singular
> glaze
> and over the years have used different scales. But I learned early on
> that
> altering the grams to pounds and ounces sure saves time and effort.
Dear Bonnie;
That is why I use a dairy scale to weigh out recipes larger than 4000
grams. These scales go to 30 pounds, but what is special is they do not
measure ounces, rather, they measure tenths of pounds. So 100 gram
recipes can be converted directly to pounds. Say one wants a 33 pound
batch. set the tare for the bucket and divide each ingredient amount by
3. So 35% would be 11.67 pounds, and so on. I just add material until
the scale shows 11.67 pounds, then I add the next ingredient(say 17% or
5.67 pounds), when the scale pointer gets to the 17.34 pound mark, I
know I have got the additional 5.67 pounds in the bucket. And so on
until the whole 33 pound batch is in the bucket. One can divide the
100% by any fraction to arrive at the individual amounts. Sounds
complicated when it is spelled out like this, but takes me only a few
minutes to make each large batch. takes longer to hydrate and screen.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on tue 19 sep 06
Lee,
do you have the chemical composition of
amakusa stone.
Is your ash washed?
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Le Français Volant
The Flying Frenchman
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://thepottersshop.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: making glaze at home
> On 9/18/06, Sandy Miller
> wrote:
>>
>> Mel,
>> Had to respond to this...... I think this may
>> well work for gas firing
>> but not so sure about oxidation. I have
>> rounded off many glazes in my day
>> and I have gone back to calibrating my scales
>> and observing my decimal
>> points and I don't have a digital scale, still
>> using the Ohaus triple beam.
>
> Sandy,
>
> All my ash glazes are by wet ladel measure, no
> scales used at all. My
> main glaze is 3 ash 2 ball clay and 1 amakusa
> stone. I sometimes add a
> little kaolin, if the ash is too soft. It
> is a good way to work and
> helps keep you from breathing glaze material
> dust. The big bonus with ash
> glazes, is that you don't have to dry them out
> before mixing the glaze.
>
> --
>
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://potters.blogspot.com/
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Des & Jan Howard on wed 20 sep 06
Edouard
GlazeChem has this analysis for Amakusa stone.
% 3.12 K2O 0.18 MgO 0.17 CaO 15.13 Al2O3 77.21 SiO2 0.36 Fe2O3
3.99 LOI
Trace Na2O
Dunno about Lee's ash.
Des
Edouard Bastarache Inc. wrote:
> Lee,
>
> do you have the chemical composition of
> amakusa stone.
> Is your ash washed?
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Lee Love on wed 20 sep 06
Edouard,
I was the woodash. Amakusa is the stone they use for
porcelain in Arita. This is what I got*
SiO2 79.87
Al2O3 13.90
Fe2O3 .44
CaO Trace
MgO Trace
K2O 2.56
NaO2 .28
Ig Loss 3.09
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Donna Kat on wed 20 sep 06
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:36:41 -0700, Lee Love wrote:
>On 9/18/06, Sandy Miller wrote:
>>
>> Mel,
>> Had to respond to this...... I think this may well work for gas firing
>> but not so sure about oxidation. I have rounded off many glazes in my
day
>> and I have gone back to calibrating my scales and observing my decimal
>> points and I don't have a digital scale, still using the Ohaus triple
beam.
>
>Sandy,
>
>All my ash glazes are by wet ladel measure, no scales used at all. My
>main glaze is 3 ash 2 ball clay and 1 amakusa stone. I sometimes add a
>little kaolin, if the ash is too soft. It is a good way to work and
>helps keep you from breathing glaze material dust. The big bonus with
ash
>glazes, is that you don't have to dry them out before mixing the glaze.
>
I have never heard of wet ladel measure. Since the measure of the
chemical ingredients is going to be dependent on the ratio of water to dry
ingredient, how do you control for evaporation, settling and such?
Lee Love on wed 20 sep 06
I have a big scale I bought at Goodwill or the Salvation
Army,( that is in storage in Minneapolis) that was supposed to be some
kind of bartender scale, showing lbs. and ounces. The nice feature,
was that the dail was on a ring, so when you put your container on the
scale, you could zero it out simply by turning the ring.
Hank, your talking about tenths of pounds: It wasn't
until after I finished my apprenticeship for several years, that I
found on the internet, that a shaku is a "Japanese foot." It is
almost exactly an anglo foot. Shaku and tsun are the traditional
carpenter's measure. The tsun is a 10th of a shaku , or about
1/10th foot or 3.2cm. All bowls, dishes and platters are measured
by shaku or tsun. The standard dishes were go-tsun, rok-tsun,
nana-tsun, ha-tsun, kyu-tsun shaku. (5, 6, 7, 8, 9
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on wed 20 sep 06
Lee,
Thanks !!!
Edouard Bastarache
Le Français Volant
The Flying Frenchman
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://thepottersshop.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: making glaze at home
> Edouard,
>
> I was the woodash. Amakusa is the
> stone they use for
> porcelain in Arita. This is what I got*
>
> SiO2 79.87
> Al2O3 13.90
> Fe2O3 .44
> CaO Trace
> MgO Trace
> K2O 2.56
> NaO2 .28
> Ig Loss 3.09
> --
>
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://potters.blogspot.com/
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Slatin on wed 20 sep 06
Donna --
He means ladle. His method is to measure in number of ladles
(of a known and consistend volume) materials that are already
mixed with water. Lee advises us that this is common in Japan.
Of course the accuracy of the mix depends on successfully
mixing a clay and water or a feldspar and water or an oxide
and water (or whatever) to a level of precision that I personally
believe would be impossible without carefully weighing or otherwise
measuring materials.
Lee would disagree, I imagine.
Lee also argues that measuring the specific gravity of a
glaze and trying to keep it consistent to keep glaze
application consistent is an inferior approach.
I disagree with him. I believe that having a consistent
SG of glaze and timing the length of a dip (I only dip and
pour) gives an extremely consistent thickness in application.
Lee would then argue that the glaze result is more closely
related to the thickness of the application than to the specific
gravity of the glaze at the time of application.
I wholly agree with him on this.
I'm getting the idea that I've been on this list too long --
I can now provide both sides of a conversation.
Time to get back to weighing stuff!
-- Steve Slatin
Donna Kat wrote:
I have never heard of wet ladel measure. Since the measure of the
chemical ingredients is going to be dependent on the ratio of water to dry
ingredient, how do you control for evaporation, settling and such?
---------------------------------
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Elizabeth Priddy on wed 20 sep 06
I have never heard of wet ladel measure. Since the
measure of the
chemical ingredients is going to be dependent on the
ratio of water to
dry
ingredient, how do you control for evaporation,
settling and such?
______________________________________
You don't control for all that.
You wing it.
Let it go.
Feel for the right wetness and
if it is too dry, add water.
If it is too wet, wait a day with the cover off.
It might not be the method for you.
No judgement implied except that you may be
missing the point of the discussion.
Which is that no particular methodology is going
to work for everyone and the way anyone works is ok
as long as it works.
If you are all loosy goosey and you want tight
control,
you will have to change the way you work.
If the miggling bits are driving you mad and you just
want to make pots, not rocket science, then throw out
your scale and work freely with eyball measurements
and ladles (but don't come crying when you can't
repeat a glaze).
You may not be able to have your cake and eat it too,
but you can certainly decide whether you want cake or
flesh.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
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Lee Love on wed 20 sep 06
On 9/20/06, Donna Kat wrote:
>
> I have never heard of wet ladel measure. Since the measure of the
> chemical ingredients is going to be dependent on the ratio of water to dry
> ingredient, how do you control for evaporation, settling and such?
Donna,
All the slurries and slips are mixed up and allowed to
settle. The water on top is siphoned off after the material settles
and you use this saturated mix for the glaze. It is very consistent
and is not effected by the varying amount of moisture in the dry
materials.
My standard ash glaze is mixed up by multiplying the
ladels of the different ingredients by 3/2/1
Steve lacks experience in tradtional glaze mixing :^):
Anybody who knows the traditional way of testing glaze thickness
knows that the scratch test is superior to measuring specific gravity,
because you are looking at the actual thickness of the glaze on the
pot, and not just how much water is in the glaze. It is a "no
brainer."
Use the tool that is functionally the best for the job.
Sometimes the tool is a gauge. But sometimes it is your eye.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Dolita Dohrman on wed 20 sep 06
I have been reading this thread with interest and I have noticed most the
people who scoff at exact measuring are those who allow the kiln to do most
of the surface work. Those of us who work in the electric kiln don't have
such a luxury. What we do on the surface before it gets fired makes a huge
difference in what comes out. The only variable we have is how fast or how
slow to fire or cool down. I am aware that other types of kilns can be
fired with those same variables, but then you can also rely on reduction, or
wood ash flying all over the pieces, or a flame hitting a pot in just the
right way to achieve magical results. So leave us to our exact measurements
in our 5 gallon buckets...we know what we have to do. A gram can make a
difference in the glaze outcome. You do what you do, we will do what we do.
Do ya smell what I'm steppin' in?
Dolita
--
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Bonnie Staffel on thu 21 sep 06
I agree with you, Dolita, about the exactness required for the electric
kiln. However, when one weighs out 80 pounds total of glaze chemicals, =
an
ounce plus or minus isn't going to affect the final outcome. However, I =
am
not liking how this latest mix is looking so since it is already a combo =
of
a matt and shiny glaze, I think I will mix up a small batch of the shiny
glaze and add it to the big mix. I sometimes mix my glaze materials =
like an
old fashioned cook, a pinch of this and a pinch of that (just kidding =
here)
but there are simple combos of Mason Stains and Frits that I measure by =
the
teaspoon. When I mix up my smaller batches of special glazes that I use =
on
special pots, I use my Ohaus scale.=20
I was bummed out recently because I have misplaced the 500 gram weight. =
I
needed it to mix up some terra sig. I made a mistake somewhere along =
the
line when I mixed it up and couldn't get it to polish. So I took some
Sodium Silicate and dipped a stick into the SS and let a few drops go =
into
the mix. Pretty soon, as I tested today, I now have a great TS that
polishes up just fine. Now to fire test it. =20
I enjoy living on the edge sometimes.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Nancy Braches on thu 21 sep 06
Interesting...I learned the Tsun as a chinese measurement for acupunture. 1 tsun, 1.5 tsun, etc....it's the width of the person's thumb....each person's body will have a different tsun measurement for finding points. That's because a 6ft man would be longer than a 4 ft child. Therefore the tsun would be different for the accuracy of the points.
Just an interesting fact :)
Nancy
Hilltop Pottery
Lee Love wrote: I have a big scale I bought at Goodwill or the Salvation
Army,( that is in storage in Minneapolis) that was supposed to be some
kind of bartender scale, showing lbs. and ounces. The nice feature,
was that the dail was on a ring, so when you put your container on the
scale, you could zero it out simply by turning the ring.
Hank, your talking about tenths of pounds: It wasn't
until after I finished my apprenticeship for several years, that I
found on the internet, that a shaku is a "Japanese foot." It is
almost exactly an anglo foot. Shaku and tsun are the traditional
carpenter's measure. The tsun is a 10th of a shaku , or about
1/10th foot or 3.2cm. All bowls, dishes and platters are measured
by shaku or tsun. The standard dishes were go-tsun, rok-tsun,
nana-tsun, ha-tsun, kyu-tsun shaku. (5, 6, 7, 8, 9
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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Lee Love on fri 22 sep 06
On 9/21/06, Nancy Braches wrote:
> Interesting...I learned the Tsun as a chinese measurement for acupunture. '
> 1 tsun, 1.5 tsun, etc....it's the width of the person's thumb....e
Tsun came from China, but different measures for it evolved.
There is a different measure for sewing and carpentry.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
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