Dave Finkelnburg on wed 20 sep 06
Cat,
I agree with you that the Giffen Grip is great, but
it's only one way to work and it's not the best way in
a lot of cases. So, with coaching from different
folks, including Uncle Melvin, if even I can tap
center...you can too! It's tricky, and you need to be
sort of Zen about it, but the best way to start is
just to get something light, like a 16-ounce can
that's empty, and set it on a plain bat, and start the
wheel turning at some moderate speed, and tap, tap,
tap. If you do it right, the first tap is strong, the
second lighter because the can is closer to center
now, and the third is the lightest.
It's a lot like spelling...if you think about it
too much, you can't do it. Don't watch the piece turn
for a long time, just tap it and see what happens,
make an adjustment if necessary, and tap it again.
Whether you tap right or left-handed doesn't
matter, BUT, you have to tap into the piece, as it is
coming into your hand. You can't make it work very
well if you tap as the piece is turning away from your
hand.
You can tap with your fingers, with your palm, with
the backs of your fingers. For me it depends on what
I'm centering. I use my right palm (I'm not a lefty
like some folks I know! :-) to tap heavy pieces,
say to center a large bat on some clay on the wheel
head. I use the backs of my fingertips to center very
light bowls I'm going to wax with a brush.
The main thing, though, is to just go with it,
relax and feel what's happening and adjust to that.
If I hit a spell where I'm having trouble getting a
piece centered I've found it helps to stop the wheel,
take a deep breath, start again and tap with my other
hand, or at a different speed. It's a lot like
centering...if you don't force it but, rather, go with
what the piece wants you get there quicker.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
--- catjarosz <> wrote:
> Ok so whats my point ? My point is I would sooo
> love to tap center and I
> cant seem to do it..
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pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 21 sep 06
Hi Taylor,
Well, in in my appreciation, the 'rings' are a bad
guide...and really,
given my druthers, I would rather have a plain
Wheel Head with no rings in it.
There is no good reason I can think of why any
designer of Wheels, would put 'rings' into the
Wheel Head...as it tends to mis-lead the Pilgrim
into thinking they have some use or purpose to
jusify their presence or use.
"Center" for any form, will be an aesthetic
apprehension, and the 'rings' have no
justification for being there..the Center of the
rotating Wheel Head, is self evident in it's way,
especially when something is on it.
Many pieces, Bowls especially, if thrown sensibly,
will best be Trimmed on the basis of their
shoulder being centered...no matter if the rim is
a little oblong or other from drying, or
regardless of the
verymost bottom's ragged cut off and possibly
slightly irregular mass form being spiggoted with
dents, from one's lifting finger tips...especially
when one is intending a tallish Foot.
Otherwise, if 'centering' the Rim to the 'rings',
one is Trimming with the result of making un-even
shoulder
thicknesses and feet-centered-ness in the final
result, in their relation to the actual interior
of the form, and that would
be not-so-good of course...or worse...
Centering should be an 'Eye' knowing which
accomidates at-once, instantly, the vagueries
otherwise of the piece, and respects the reasoning
of Trimming's relation to the inside of the
form....
And for Bowls, the shoulder is a nice guide for
that.
Phil
el v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Taylor Hendrix"
> Hey Lee,
>
> When I first started throwing on my own, I made
bowls almost
> exclusivly. I was often somewhat disappointed
that when I placed my
> bowls on the wheelhead I pretty much got them
centered, no need for
> tapping. Beginners luck, right?
>
> I understand now that, duh, the rings are not
there for looks.
>
> As for tap centering, it is really built into
the physics of the
> thing. It is impossible not to tap the rotating
pot to center once you
> have developed the touch. Honest, it is the most
natural thing for
> throwing potters, and it will come. Be patient
and most of all be
> fearless. In fact, treat this skill
nonchalantly, say to yourself "I
> don't care if I get it to the center. I'm
triming it anyway." You will
> be surprised. Trust me.
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
Elizabeth Priddy on thu 21 sep 06
I tried everything Dave said.
Still couldn't do it.
You have to have water on the wheel head in contact
with the rim of whatever you are tapcentering to make
a vacuum under the piece and to slide the lip.
Not much, just a tiny bit.
You might have to pat the rim on paper towels to dry
it quickly as you take it off to be satisfied.
The price of tap centering is a damp lip. Some forms
and types of finish make it a bad option. For many of
those situations you can use a grip easier.
For many of the bottle and such forms, you will need a
custom chuck.
The point is that you are going to have to use the
appropriate method for whatever you are working with,
no one solution will work.
But if you do what Dave said and use a little water
and keep the wheel turning medium to slow, you can tap
center anything with an even rim.
Personally, although I can do it easily now that I
inow about the water bit, I still prefer the grip as
the minor distortion from tap or wad centering still
are unacceptable to me. But I get a little compulsive
about rims.
It doesn't show in my work, but it does in my process.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Lee Love on thu 21 sep 06
On 9/21/06, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> But I get a little compulsive
> about rims.
>
Chucks are the best thing to protect rims.
You don't HAVE to tap to center on the wheel head. You
can just eyeball and move the piece after stopping the wheel.
Concentric circles on the wheel head or banding wheel helps in this
way.
One of my jobs during my apprenticeship was to center yunomi
on the banding wheel, so my Sensei could put an iron oxide line at the
top and the bottom of the cup. Best way was to hold the hand in a
"karate chop" gesture and tap the yumomi with the blade of my hand.
But often, my initial placement worked, because I centered the yunomi
inside the rings on the banding wheel.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
catjarosz on thu 21 sep 06
Hello Dave and E ,
Thanks for the imfo. Didnt realize I was gonna open up a can o worms ... I
figured if a long time potter like I fessed up to not knowing about tapping
on center that it might help a few others come out of the closet or not
feel so bad about themselves either..
I have have trimmed pots every possible way I could think of, chucks of
every configuration either made or found, every ingenious way I could since
early 80's ...
the giffin grip cant do everything but it sure is fast and easy for lots
of production pieces and for holding bisqued chucks fast..
ps for yrs I was a production potter and I am not sure what to call myself
now as even though I work almost every day and lot of the time 12 hrs esp
this time of yr. I have started doing more intense work that takes time over
and beyond what could be called production.. I took the leap and pretty
much stopped Wholesale to see if I could make it selling my own work and so
far I have been blessed with having "a life" and making a livingtoo...
cant say I dont GULP about this but no guts no glory
I never even had a clue that there was a process called tapping on center
till fairly recently or I would have wanted to learn it sooner. Amazing isnt
it and I did try very hard on my own to figure it out.. nope I just
couldnt do it..
I really really really want to learn this. I Hope I can remember to find
the time to make it a part of my tool bin this winter when I have a week to
"GET IT" Gayle Bair Darlink has graciously invited me to her studio
and said she'd get me tappin in a few hrs.. Course it would take me a week
to drive to her studio
SO thanks to some of ClayArts wonderful giving potters I have a few pages
of instructions ( the water on wheel is the first think I will try)
dramimine too I always challenge myself to do something I always
wanted to make or do in the early winter months when things slow down
sorta... THis winter its TAP ON CENTER and not because I feel shamed into
it but because its a great tool I'd love to be able to learn and use...
ps Kelly you go girl... sending loads o blessings your way ...
Cat Jarosz Leicester NC
www.catjarosz.com
www.guildcrafts.com/cat/
V)''(V woof & >^..^< mew
(_o_)
\||/ chicks with beards rule!!
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 21 sep 06
Hi Cat,
For 'tap' centering. ust gently tap with the pads
of your fingers, or if the piece is stout enough
you can tap with your bent finger tips.
The thing is, you do not want to think about
'when' to tap, or it will not work...
You want to get out of the way, in effect, and let
your body elect the precise moment to tap.
Then, on a slow Wheel speed, you just give the
piece a few gentle 'taps' and you 'see' when it is
Centered or if it needs another slight tap to
bring it to perfection.
When people let their thinking interfere, they
will reliably tap too late in the rotation and
make it go further off center, and feel
frustrated...
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "catjarosz"
> Hello Dave and E ,
>
> Thanks for the imfo. Didnt realize I was gonna
open up a can o worms ... I
> figured if a long time potter like I fessed up
to not knowing about tapping
> on center that it might help a few others come
out of the closet or not
> feel so bad about themselves either..
>
> I have have trimmed pots every possible way
I could think of, chucks of
> every configuration either made or found, every
ingenious way I could since
> early 80's ...
> the giffin grip cant do everything but it
sure is fast and easy for lots
> of production pieces and for holding bisqued
chucks fast..
>
> ps for yrs I was a production potter and I am
not sure what to call myself
> now as even though I work almost every day and
lot of the time 12 hrs esp
> this time of yr. I have started doing more
intense work that takes time over
> and beyond what could be called production..
I took the leap and pretty
> much stopped Wholesale to see if I could make
it selling my own work and so
> far I have been blessed with having "a life"
and making a livingtoo...
> cant say I dont GULP about this but no guts no
glory
>
> I never even had a clue that there was a process
called tapping on center
> till fairly recently or I would have wanted to
learn it sooner. Amazing isnt
> it and I did try very hard on my own to figure
it out.. nope I just
> couldnt do it..
>
> I really really really want to learn this. I
Hope I can remember to find
> the time to make it a part of my tool bin this
winter when I have a week to
> "GET IT" Gayle Bair Darlink has graciously
invited me to her studio
> and said she'd get me tappin in a few hrs..
Course it would take me a week
> to drive to her studio
>
> SO thanks to some of ClayArts wonderful giving
potters I have a few pages
> of instructions ( the water on wheel is the
first think I will try)
> dramimine too I always challenge myself
to do something I always
> wanted to make or do in the early winter months
when things slow down
> sorta... THis winter its TAP ON CENTER and
not because I feel shamed into
> it but because its a great tool I'd love to be
able to learn and use...
>
> ps Kelly you go girl... sending loads o
blessings your way ...
>
> Cat Jarosz Leicester NC
Taylor Hendrix on thu 21 sep 06
Hey Lee,
When I first started throwing on my own, I made bowls almost
exclusivly. I was often somewhat disappointed that when I placed my
bowls on the wheelhead I pretty much got them centered, no need for
tapping. Beginners luck, right?
I understand now that, duh, the rings are not there for looks.
As for tap centering, it is really built into the physics of the
thing. It is impossible not to tap the rotating pot to center once you
have developed the touch. Honest, it is the most natural thing for
throwing potters, and it will come. Be patient and most of all be
fearless. In fact, treat this skill nonchalantly, say to yourself "I
don't care if I get it to the center. I'm triming it anyway." You will
be surprised. Trust me.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
p.s. Have scrap bucket near.
On 9/21/06, Lee Love wrote:
...
> One of my jobs during my apprenticeship was to center yunomi
> on the banding wheel, so my Sensei could put an iron oxide line at the
> top and the bottom of the cup. Best way was to hold the hand in a
> "karate chop" gesture and tap the yumomi with the blade of my hand.
> But often, my initial placement worked, because I centered the yunomi
> inside the rings on the banding wheel.
Kathi LeSueur on thu 21 sep 06
I have a Giffin Grip. I've used it for years. I've also tapped on center
for years. I use both methods. Sometimes I just put bowls on the wheel
head and tap. I don't hold them down with wads of clay. If you are
careful you don't need to. It's a skill I don't want to loose and for
some forms I prefer it. But, if I'm doing lots of finishing the Grip is
a wonderful tool to have. It speeds the whole process. So, my advice
would be to get one if you can afford it, but try to learn to tap also.
Just take a bisque bowl, put it upside down on the wheel head and tap
until you get it right.
Kathi
Bonnie Staffel on sat 23 sep 06
Hi Cat and all,
Quite a while ago Mel and I had a jousting match on the principles of =
tap
centering. Guess it was a draw as neither of us would give in. My
contention was that no pot is as light as a pop can. Now if the can was
full of pop, which wasn't ever mentioned in this forum or his =
directions,
that would even up the chances of success. =20
I also object to the action of putting water on the wheel. Some clays =
just
would not allow that as the rim would be spoiled rather quickly. Once =
the
object is centered, you can't remove the water and so the pot sits in
whatever water is still present. The theory that I was taught was that =
the
pot lifts a little bit as the wheel is turning and with the proper very
quick nudge with the finger, will settle on center because of =
centrifugal
force. If the pot is leather hard, there is some tack adherence to the
wheel head so you need to learn the speed and integrate that with the =
force
of your nudge. =20
My instructions are to place your hands, one on each side of the =
revolving
pot, slightly point your fingers towards opposite sides of the pot, and =
when
the side that is out of center is closest to your LEFT middle finger, =
you
flick the pot with your RIGHT middle finger like you were flicking a fly =
off
of something. Thus you are continuing with the movement of this nudge =
in
the same direction that the pot is spinning. DO NOT ANTICIPATE WHEN THE =
OUT
OF CENTER PART OF THE POT IS GOING TO BE AT YOUR RIGHT HAND. There is a
rhythm to it. Here again it is the speed of the wheel that controls the
rhythm. The weight of the damp clay is also in your favor as it =
shouldn't
go flying too far unless you are very physical with the motion. Just =
make a
forward tap with your right hand. After a while you won't even have to =
have
your left hand present as you will know the right time. =20
I first learned about this at a demonstration at the Toledo Museum of =
Art
back in the late 40's. I was so fascinated how this potter could tap =
center
a very small bowl, upside down, that he demonstrated it again and again
until we GOT IT. =20
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
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