David Hendley on sun 1 oct 06
Hi Fred, I, and I suspect, many professional potters know how
a piece will be glazed as they are making it.
It really is a better way to work. Design decisions are made based
on what the glaze will be. For example, if I know an area will
be unglazed, I am particular about making any attachments, such
as handles, very neat. If I know I will be using a glaze that is prone
to run, I will build in a line or a bead to catch it. If I know I will
be using a transparent glaze I might use my fingernail to put a
spiral in the bottom.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
> When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
> wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
> Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
> notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
> buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
> a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
> the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
> what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
> item.
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 1 oct 06
Hi Fred,
I am deeply envious that you have the time and can spend it on your
glazing. I do what you are describing only during a testing period;
when I am trying to get orders out or prepare for a show, I just can't.
If you want to pare back the time involved, all I can say is,
experience will tell you what all the combos do; you'll streamline, at
some point, and you won't have to worry over each piece like
that--you'll just glaze. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with
your approach. I'm sure all the effort shows in the final pieces.
Lynn
On Oct 1, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Fred Parker wrote:
> Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
>
> When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
> wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>
> Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
> notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio),
> arrange
> buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges
> and
> a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing
> to
> the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I
> decide
> what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
> item.
>
> When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and
> conjured up
> unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be
> both
> exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what
> the
> result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more
> energy
> in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I
> will be
> left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
>
> I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
> generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing
> good
> results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Parker
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Fred Parker on sun 1 oct 06
Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
item.
When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and conjured up
unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be both
exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what the
result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more energy
in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I will be
left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing good
results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
Regards,
Fred Parker
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 2 oct 06
Dear Fred Parker,=20
Nothing wrong with the process you are following except that it is a bit =
lacking in efficiency.
By way of contrast, the group you describe, who have everything under =
control, are using "Design Processes". This needs a "Holistic" approach =
which begins when you first consider what is to be made from your clay. =
Do you prepare sketches? Do you colour or tone them? Do you plan several =
alternatives, with contrasting colours, tones and textures?
I was looking at an article I wrote about an artist I know, Jill Foster. =
The photographer commissioned to work with me, Clayton Glen, provided =
illustrations of Jill's preparatory work to go with my text. Searching =
the countryside for subject for her decorative plates, taking =
photographs then converting these to images that would work in a =
circular space was a major part of the process. Had she worked piecemeal =
there would have been little product and a poor living. By being =
organised and planning well Jill save time and increased her =
productivity.
That being said, if every item going into your kiln has to have an =
individualised selection of glazes applied in unique patters so that =
there is no similarity between any two pieces, then you may have to =
continue with your self imposed herculean labours.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Nancy Braches on mon 2 oct 06
Hi Fred
Well this method works for you. When first starting to work with glazes, this is what we do, we test and try different things, writing it in our little notebooks and I used to go as far as taking a picture of the item after the glaze firing and putting that in my notebook. Pretty soon I was down to 6-8 glazes I liked best and their combinations. Then glazing did take "as" long but still takes some time. I usually wax my bottoms (if I am waxing that kiln load) the night before and the next day they are all laying out on my glazing table. The next morning I flip them all over, decide what colors I'll glaze them. I find it easier to write on a slip of paper what glazes I want on the piece and set it inside, I then arrange the pieces by colors to be dipped and start the process. I stir one bucket at a time all prior to starting, then I only need to give them a quick restir when I am ready for them. I can glaze a kiln load in a few hours if I prepare this way.
Of course, this is just "one" way for glazing and I'm sure we all have different tips and shortcuts for you :)
Nancy
Hilltop Pottery
Fred Parker wrote: Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
item.
When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and conjured up
unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be both
exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what the
result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more energy
in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I will be
left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing good
results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
Regards,
Fred Parker
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Jonathan Kirkendall on mon 2 oct 06
Hi Fred,
As others have written, I have limited time to do glaze testing -
however, I do try to get one or two glaze tests in a firing. That
can range from mixing up a new glaze and trying it on a test tile to
combining two known glazes in a way I haven't used them before.
Over the course of the year then, I am able to do many such tests,
and keep my knowledge of glazes and how they work on my clay body fresh.
Jonathan in DC
On Oct 1, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Fred Parker wrote:
> Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real)
> potters:
> I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
> generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of
> accomplishing good
> results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Parker
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
David Woof on mon 2 oct 06
Fred, sounds like you are right where you need to be in your journey. Of
course as you gain experience you will learn and recognize shortcuts, and
some of the pondering that now seems to take so much time will come more
decisevly. But cherish this time to experiment and learn. This intrigueing
time of mystrey and discovery. Afford yourself this luxury. It is something
each and every one of us must continue to do if we and our art are to
develop and grow. Saddly too often patent solutions gain ascendency, driven
by mometary demands to "pump out" work, and pumped out work is always
apparent to the initiated observer.
Think mystery not mastery, and mastery will come in it's own time. Maybe
this sounds trite or clich'e but there is a lifetimes worth to ponder for
the truths hidden.
Glad to here you are enjoying your new wheel.
Best,
David
_________________________________
_________________________________
David Woof Studio
Clarkdale, Arizona
Ph. 928-821-3747 Fax. 866-881-3461
________________________________
________________________________
peering over the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
Snail Scott on mon 2 oct 06
You wrote:
>> When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
>> wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>> Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests... I
>> pore over each piece while comparing to
>> the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc...
You need to be thinking about surfaces as part of your
making process. It's integral, not something to confront
for the first time after the claywork is done. Some glazes
will respond best to certain forms, textures, etc. How can
you take full advantage of that if you only achieve those
optimal forms by accident, hoping for something suitable
after the fact?
If you make forms based solely on the contour of the clay,
and then try to figure the optimum surface for each, it's
no wonder that it will be time-consuming, since each will
need something different, but none will have a 'perfect'
choice. It also doesn't allow you to fine-tune that
synergy between clay and surface by seeing what
works on what, then making the next round of work to
optimize that relationship further.
This is even more true of sculpture, since the range of
potential surfaces is broader, and you can never fall back
of a default assumption like 'of course it'll have a smooth
glaze'. Hoping that some perfect surface will present
itself after the claywork is done is like hoping to win the
lottery. Better off doing some actual work to make it
happen. Sometimes that choice changes, and sometimes
not all the aspects of the surface are quite nailed down in
advance, but you'll make better clay by having a least a
direction in mind.
When I teach, especially beginners, I tell them not to
necessarily start a project by deciding what glaze to use.
Instead, they should ask themselves what properties the
object should have: matte or shiny? dark or light? high-
chroma or low? patterned or even? varied across the
surface or the same? Something to enhance texture or
subdue it? Do the surroundings of the object matter in
that choice? the uses of the object?
Then, pick a type of surface that will be suitable. Every
surface has its own characteristics, though, and we
can't always rig up one that fits all our desires. Having
chosen some suitable properties, though, we can then
work with appropriate choices, AND respond to the
idiosyncrasies of that actual material when we make
the work.
It's a continuous feedback process: first you make some
claywork then you stick some stuff on it, because test
tiles do not tell all. Then, you look at the result, and
modify accordingly. The best work always feels like a
perfect match of surface and form, and it can't get there
by trying to find a surface after the fact; they've got to
develop together over time.
-Snail
Bonnie Staffel on mon 2 oct 06
Dear Fred,
I guess I will jump in here on this subject. The third year into my =
quest
to be a potter when I was attending Cranbrook, I glazed somewhat in the
manner you described as everything was new to me, and I was going to =
school
to learn and test. I might say that if you are in the "learning" stage =
of
your career, this is not bad. You are studying many of the nuances of =
each
glaze to see how it fits the pot, and how you can work with it. =20
I know that I felt very free to experiment while in school and each pot =
was
either a joy or a rank disappointment of my efforts. =20
However, if you are an experienced potter, well into your career, you =
are
spending way too much time on this process. Your earlier =
experimentation
should have given you stock glazes that you knew what they would give =
and
how they would act. I had a glaze test in every kiln at Cranbrook, but
found that that huge electric kiln did not give me the same effects as =
my
smaller one at home. So back to the drawing board, but at least I had =
the
experience to know what I was looking for. =20
Then I got a new Alpine gas kiln. Had to test more glazes for that =
firing
process. When we moved to Charlevoix, then it was back to the electric =
kiln
but at least I had a notebook full of tested glazes that I could build =
on
there. I was able to fill my shop with pots of my design and with =
glazes
from my experiments and get on with my career. =20
Good luck,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Charan Sachar on mon 2 oct 06
Hi Fred,
I am glad you wrote regarding this subject. You are not the only one and
actually I think I might be worse when it comes to my glazing routine.
I usually do think of what my final piece (glaze and all) will be even
before I touch the clay. One my piece is thrown, trimmed, decorated and
bisqued, comes glazing day(s).
Glaze day 1 or more. I wax resist all the pieces and make notes in my
sketch book what I would like on every piece. I use the HVLP sprayer and
spray a lot of my glazes in layers. A bowl could get as many as 5 glazes.
Anyway, after spending time figuring out glazes, I sit and figure out in
which order do I want to glaze everything. For example, pouring inside
cups, dipping outside, first glaze to be sprayed on, second to be
sprayed...8th glaze to be sprayed. So far this is all done on paper. Then
I go to the studio and arrange everything in the order things will get
glazed. End of day one.
Glaze day 2. Being an engg. I like to organize everything this way so that
I am efficient on day 2. Each glaze bucket gets opened once and the
sprayer is filled with that glaze just once and all the pieces for that
glaze get sprayed on. Then I move on to the next glaze etc... To some
extent I find this efficient as I am not switching glazes back and forth
in the sprayer, contaminating glazes, or making a mess. And because it is
all planned out, it goes very smoothly on glazing day 2. I don't second
guess my choices after I have decided on day 1.
Occassionaly i will have pieces on which I randomly spray glazes without
any thought in any order and once in a while they land up being better
too. Love those surprises.
This works for me as I am not spending too much time during the actual
glazing process. But if you count the amount of time I have spent dreaming
what glaze I want on a piece I bet no one is slower than me.
Charan
www.creativewithclay.com
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:21:48 -0400, Fred Parker
wrote:
>Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
>
>When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
>wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>
>Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
>notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
>buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
>a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
>the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
>what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
>item.
>
>When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and conjured up
>unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be both
>exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what the
>result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more energy
>in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I will be
>left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
>
>I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
>generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing good
>results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
>
>Regards,
>
>Fred Parker
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hi
John Connolly on tue 3 oct 06
Ron, as a relative beginner, I find it difficult to understand the phrase so ofter used, "glaze thickness". I know that sometimes it refers to the density or specific gravity of the mixed glaze solution and sometimes it refers to the thickness of the coating on the pot.
If I understand correctly, each reference is both glaze specific and clay specific (and probably cone and type of kiln specific) and the only way to determine the "correct" thickness in each instance is by testing. There seem to be no universal or unifying principle, at least that I can see.
I often see the phrase "this glaze like to be thin" or "thick" and really have no way of discerning what is meant. I'm not in a position to extensive glaze formulation on my own, but am trying my best to put to use the knowledge that is continually displayed on Clay Art.
I'd be interested in comments.
Ron Roy wrote:
Hi Fred,
I'm with David in this - decide what glaze or glaze combination you will
use when making the pot - that way you have a much better chance of getting
it "right."
Once you have discovered which glaze or combinations you prefer you can
concentrate on them and learn how to use them effectively.
Limiting the number of glazes you use is an excellent way to learn how to
use them - less is more in this case. The better you get at two or three
glazes - the better you get at using other glazes as well.
Pay special attention to glaze thickness - controlling that is the key to
getting the results you want - then get the firing right.
RR
>Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
>
>When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
>wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>
>Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
>notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
>buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
>a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
>the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
>what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
>item.
>
>When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and conjured up
>unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be both
>exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what the
>result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more energy
>in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I will be
>left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
>
>I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
>generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing good
>results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
>
>Regards,
>
>Fred Parker
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
---------------------------------
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Ron Roy on tue 3 oct 06
Hi Fred,
I'm with David in this - decide what glaze or glaze combination you will
use when making the pot - that way you have a much better chance of getting
it "right."
Once you have discovered which glaze or combinations you prefer you can
concentrate on them and learn how to use them effectively.
Limiting the number of glazes you use is an excellent way to learn how to
use them - less is more in this case. The better you get at two or three
glazes - the better you get at using other glazes as well.
Pay special attention to glaze thickness - controlling that is the key to
getting the results you want - then get the firing right.
RR
>Here's a philosophical question for all of you seasoned (real) potters:
>
>When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
>wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>
>Once the bisqueware is ready, I get out my box of glaze tests, my glaze
>notebook, lug many glaze buckets up to the carport (small studio), arrange
>buckets of water, the Harbor Freight HVLP gun, banding wheel, sponges and
>a hundred other paraphrenalia. I pore over each piece while comparing to
>the test tiles and figure "this might work on that," etc. Once I decide
>what I want to put on the piece, I do it, then begin anew with the next
>item.
>
>When the whole load is finished I will have spent two days and conjured up
>unique glaze combinations for almost every piece involved. I will be both
>exhausted and elated -- and eager to get on with it so I can see what the
>result will be. All in all, I will have expended as much or more energy
>in glazing as in all of making the otems and bisqueing them, and I will be
>left wondering if everyone goes through this or is there a better way?
>
>I suspect potters who meet deadlines, earn a living from sales and
>generally qualify as "real" potters have better ways of accomplishing good
>results. If anyone would comment I would be most grateful...
>
>Regards,
>
>Fred Parker
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Ron Roy on wed 4 oct 06
Hi John,
I was speaking of the amount of unfired glaze on the pot - you are right to
question as I did not say that.
The thickness of the glaze on the pot is related to the thickness of the
glaze in the bucket and how the glaze is applied - and how absorbent the
clay is.
A good way to deal with this is to glaze a number of tiles with different
thicknesses of glaze on them - two tiles for each thickness - fire one of
each thickness - and keep the other unfired. Scratch through the unfired
tiles so you can see how thick the glazes is.
Make sure the tiles are the same clay as your work and bisque fired to the
same temperature.
When you start to glaze something you can look at the fired tiles and see
what you want the glaze to look like - choose one of those tiles and then
look at the corresponding unfired tile and you will see how thick the glaze
has to be to get the same result.
You can then get the glaze in the bucket the right viscosity by dipping
tiles (broken bisque is ideal) in it and adjusting it till it gives the
right thickness on your pots. Best to take some water off your glaze before
stirring - you can always add more water to get it thinned down.
RR
>Ron, as a relative beginner, I find it difficult to understand the phrase
>so ofter used, "glaze thickness". I know that sometimes it refers to the
>density or specific gravity of the mixed glaze solution and sometimes it
>refers to the thickness of the coating on the pot.
>
> If I understand correctly, each reference is both glaze specific and
>clay specific (and probably cone and type of kiln specific) and the only
>way to determine the "correct" thickness in each instance is by testing.
>There seem to be no universal or unifying principle, at least that I can
>see.
>
> I often see the phrase "this glaze like to be thin" or "thick" and
>really have no way of discerning what is meant. I'm not in a position to
>extensive glaze formulation on my own, but am trying my best to put to use
>the knowledge that is continually displayed on Clay Art.
>
> I'd be interested in comments.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Judy Rohrbaugh on thu 5 oct 06
I decide how the pots should look finished before I throw.
I keep a list of what I need to make for my booth for art shows.
I write down what pots I need, and also in what color.
I use a lot of engobes, plus do cutting and incising into my pots, so most need to be planned out in advance, anyway.
Maybe it is out of habit, but I have trouble getting anything to come out right by just throwing a form and decorating it later.
I have recently started with raku, which means using new glazes.
Even though I am still in the experimental stages, I plan the same way.
I make specific pot shapes for specific glazes and glaze experiments.
I t is easiest for me to keep a list with some quick sketches, as I work on
a kiln load with the experiments in mind.
I have read a little on woodworking, and have come to the conclusion that
working in wood is similar to clay, in that first the item is made,
then it is finished with stain, varnish, whatever.
Some woodworkers spend more time making the piece, then just put any
finish on it.
I believe l have better work in both mediums (clay and wood) if I plan
the entire process per piece beforehand.
This isn't making the process go any quicker, but I am happier with my results.(Usually).
Judy Rohrbaugh
Fine Art Stoneware
Ohio
>When you glaze, how do you approach the process? I think I'm doing it
>wrong, and spending 'way too much time at it. Here's what I do:
>
>Regards,
>
>Fred Parker
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 5 oct 06
Dear John Connolly,=20
I think the term"Thickness is used in two contexts.
The first refers to the liquid slop and is about fluidity. To get a =
number for this people will use a Hydrometer. Other people will use a =
viscometer to measure the time take by a fixed volume of liquid glaze to =
pass through a small hole.
Eth second describes the physical thickness of a dried layer of glaze on =
a sample of bisque clay.
Some people, and I am one of them, will brush a tile three times, =
allowing the glaze to set up between each stroke. The first stroke =
covers the whole tile, the second two thirds of the tile leaving one =
third with a single coating of glaze. The third stroke covers half of =
the portion covered by two coats.
Results of such a test can tell us about the interaction between clay =
and glaze (1st coat), about visual density or if you wish, transparency, =
translucency and opacity, Finally, we get information about surface =
texture.
Needless to say, if you are using several clay bodies in your work it =
becomes essential to do this with all of them. You can get quite =
different effects from dark and light or white clay bodies.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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