Alyssa Ettinger on wed 4 oct 06
story of our second kiln... (thanks to everyone helping with the repair of
the first!)
long story short--and i will likely have to share the long story once
questions start to be ask, but i will start small: we had 220 lines brought
into our studio, and got a 240 kiln because everyone said this would work.
in fact, it did work--albeit taking longer to fire than normal--till
summer... and then it started not even reaching cone 6 (kiln is cone 8) and
now throwing error message as it gets close to temp. note: this is a new
skutt, 1227, 1 phase
obviously, we have heard this is a common problem (the 220/240 thing). and
that 220 is really 208. and that we need to buy/install somethng called a
step-up converter for something like a billion dollars (kidding).
so, ask me what you need to ask and i will answer with the facts i have and
hopefully you guys can help me/us come up with a solution that we can live
with, financially, and that won't make us insane.
thank you.
alyssa. insane.
www.alyssaettinger.com
Maurice Weitman on thu 5 oct 06
At 23:43 -0400 on 10/4/06, Alyssa Ettinger wrote:
>[...] we had 220 lines brought
>into our studio, and got a 240 kiln because everyone said this would work.
>in fact, it did work--albeit taking longer to fire than normal--till
>summer... and then it started not even reaching cone 6 (kiln is cone 8) and
>now throwing error message as it gets close to temp. note: this is a new
>skutt, 1227, 1 phase
>
>obviously, we have heard this is a common problem (the 220/240 thing). and
>that 220 is really 208. and that we need to buy/install somethng called a
>step-up converter for something like a billion dollars (kidding).
Alyssa,
I don't agree with your math, but don't want to contribute to your insanity.
Here is what I think (and I am NOT an electrician or anything like one).
There is no difference between what is called 220 and 240 volts A.C.
And 220 is NOTHING LIKE (what is called) 208.
Nominal A.C. voltage in most areas in the US is=20
120 volts. When larger appliances, such as=20
electric dryers, ovens, ranges, large motors,=20
etc., are used, they are mostly designed to use=20
two "legs" of the power line so that the circuit=20
can use smaller-diameter wiring. This is exactly=20
(uh-oh!) double the single-leg voltage, so it's=20
nominally 240 volts. BUT it is often referred to=20
as 220 volts. It's a sloppy, but common=20
reference.
208 is another animal altogether. It's found=20
nearly exclusively in industrial settings. It is=20
also part of what is called three-phase service,=20
because its three legs are out-of-phase by 120=BA=20
of each cycle.
Now, assuming you have 240 volts coming into your=20
studio and your kiln is designed for 240 volts=20
AND if you have a problem with not enough voltage=20
or current to you kiln, I'd say that's a problem=20
for your electrician or utility.
If your utility is saying that you need a step-up=20
transformer, I'd say that's an indication that=20
they're not delivering the proper voltage to your=20
studio. Such a transformer is NOT the solution=20
to your problem. It might work, but it will be=20
too expensive. Worst-case is that you will have=20
to re-wire your kiln with different elements to=20
match your actual voltage.
Have you measured the voltage at your panel?
The fact that your kiln worked better before=20
summer may indicate that your utility might be=20
having problems meeting air conditioning-induced=20
demands, or your studio might not be wired with=20
enough reserve to meet your peak needs.
If the voltage is good and your kiln is firing=20
too slowly, its wiring, or the wiring to it may=20
be bad.
Regards,
Maurice
Arnold Howard on thu 5 oct 06
In the United States, 220 volts is not an actual voltage. It
is a label used for appliances that can run on either 208 or
240 volts.
The circuit you ran into the studio is 240. If the actual
voltage is 220, then you have low voltage, which will slow
down the 240 volt kiln.
Have you checked the voltage with a voltmeter while the kiln
is firing? The measurement should be taken at the kiln
rather than at the breaker panel.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alyssa Ettinger"
: we had 220 lines brought
> into our studio, and got a 240 kiln because everyone said
> this would work.
> in fact, it did work--albeit taking longer to fire than
> normal--till
> summer... and then it started not even reaching cone 6
> (kiln is cone 8)
Rick Hamelin on thu 5 oct 06
Contact one of the element manufacturers, such as http://www.duralite.com/ or euclids and tell them that you are reading 208/220v (important-get a voltimeter and get a honest reading in the a.m. and p.m.) at the outlet and need coils made for your skutt, 1227, 1 phase
Not really a big problem.
Rick
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
Len Cockman on fri 6 oct 06
Alyssa:
We have the same situation in my High School Kiln Room. The wrong kiln (220 volt) was ordered and the kiln room was wired with 208. This was the summer before I began teaching at this school and honestly it took me about three months to figure out what was going on. At that time I did not have a home studio and taught as many as five different studio classes of both 2D and 3D disciplines within a 8 hour time period (profs....cherish your "research time").
I understand the voltage variance but you will rarely get higher than ^04 if it is relatively loaded. You can sort of "trick" the kiln in two ways:
1. Begin the firing around 6-8 p.m. so that the power grid will be less taxed at the top end (1-3 a.m.)
2. If you have glazed pieces fire it almost empty and as slowly as possible. We found this out by accident several semesters back. We are able to get our 18 year old 7.5 cu. top loading Cress to between ^3-^4 range. Plug up the bottom and middle peeps to save that heat.
My father-in-law is a retired electrical contractor (suggestion #2) and the idea about evening firings came from a fellow church member who is an electrician.
The aftermentioned kiln is our bisque kiln and our newer kiln goes to ^8 three times a week.
One last thing. try not to have the clothes dryer, microwave or hair dryer running. Anything that heats or cools pulls one heck of a lot of juice...ever go out and look at your meter when you have it cranked up on high?
Best wishes,
Len
From: Richard White <tgrcat@VERIZON.NET>
Reply-To: Clayart <CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG>
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: 240 kilns, 220 electric
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 12:26:51 -0400
>Alyssa, yes it is time for the longer part of the story... ;-) Can you tell
>us more about the wiring situation. You say you had a line run to your
>studio. Where is your studio in relation to the main panel that the line
>came from, i.e., roughly how far is the cable run from the main panel to the
>studio and kiln outlet? Can you tell us about the wire and the panel too -
>specifically: 1) is this a residential location or a commercial location? 2)
>in the main panel, what amperage is the breaker that protects the circuit to
>the
kiln (the number of amps is marked on the tip of the finger switch)? 3)
>what size wire did the electrician use (the wire size and type is printed on
>or impressed into the plastic jacket of the cable every couple of feet)?
>
>In your later post you mention getting 216ish volts. This is about 10% drop
>from a nominal 240 source, which is twice the allowable drop per the
>national code. But on the bright side, if you had commercial-style 208v
>service, you wouldn't likely be seeing over-voltage at the receptacle. From
>what you've described, it sounds like garden variety under-voltage probably
>due to either insufficient capacity from the power company (which you could
>test by taking some voltage readings at an outlet nearer the main panel, but
>if so will take some doing to get them to address...) or too long/too
small
>wire to the studio and kiln (which will result in excessive voltage drop due
>to wire resistance). With the data from the above questions I can consult my
>electrical manuals and do some rough calculations for you.
>
>dw
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best route!
Alyssa Ettinger on fri 6 oct 06
ok, well. hmmm.
the job of person who handles dealing with fixing the kiln has gone to my
studio-mate (YAY FOR ME!) but, she doesn't come to the forum, i have to also
know how things are working, and i am continuing to send her all the
messages. thus far she has everything you've all sent or posted.
keep `em coming if you've got them, and she'll read them monday. and i'll
likely be back for more information.
and arnold, i wish we'd bought a paragon because you've being far more
helpful and explanatory than a: the ceramic supply people we bought the kiln
from, and b: the kiln manufacturer.
will be back checking messages, adding updates, and then we can all have a
party when i have a kiln i can fire my porcelain in. and it had better be
soon, dammit, because a pretty major design store wants me in their holiday
sale!!!!!!!!!!!
love you guys,
alyssa
www.alyssaettinger.com
Alyssa Ettinger on fri 6 oct 06
you guys are being so helpful, though i'm still terribly confused...
each electrician, and kiln seller and kiln people at kiln place, plus hour
landlord, has told us something completely different.
we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to it, 208. (ours
is reading from 212 to 216.) one electrician said it was the kiln because
the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on and
while off)
as for con-ed, we can't even find a person there to talk with.
we turned kiln on, on a fast fire program, and within half an hour all the
coils, except the middle ones, were bright orange.
electrician who pulled in the lines we paid for said it's 220. other
electrician says we don't need step-up converter and it's a waste of $$.
kiln manufacturers say kilns are not like, say, dryers and are very voltage
sensitive. that we need a converter.
you guys are helping, but again, differing viewpoints.
plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i might add.
kiln guy we can bring in costs a fortune. at this point, if we're going to
have to toss in another xx amount of $$, i'm thinking i'm going to buy a
used kiln for the same money and start fresh.
so...???
Arnold Howard on fri 6 oct 06
Alyssa, your system is 240 volts, but your area is having
severe voltage drop.
I know of one case in Texas where a 240 volt system was
actually supplying only 190 volts.
I suggest converting your 240 volt kiln to 208 volts since
your other kiln is a 208 volt. You will need to change all
the elements and probably have the kiln direct-wired. You
could change the elements yourself. It is not difficult.
Before converting the kiln, you should definitely call
Skutt.
Also, after making a conversion or ordering specially
designed elements, you should change the voltage on the
kiln's electrical data plate, or at least keep careful
maintenance records. Otherwise you might order the wrong
replacement elements years from now.
One of the problems with used kilns is that sometimes the
voltage listed on the data plate is incorrect, because a
previous owner modified the kiln.
I wouldn't be discouraged with the low voltage problem,
Alyssa. This is quite common. Kiln manufacturers deal with
this all the time.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
-------------------
From: "Alyssa Ettinger"
> we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down
> to it, 208. (ours
> is reading from 212 to 216.)
> plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i
> might add.
W J Seidl on fri 6 oct 06
Alyssa:
This will no doubt add to your confusion. Sorry, but this also needs to =
be
considered:
According to my local electric company, verified and confirmed by both =
my
brother the electrical engineer and brother in law the master =
electrician,
voltages delivered to a house can vary. Variation within ten percent =
(yes,
10%) are considered "normal". =20
So... for a 220v line, your voltage can be as much as 240, or as little =
as
200. =20
For a 240 volt line, as much as 262 and as little as 216. =20
If yours is reading between 212 and 216, you probably have a 220 volt =
line.
This being said, most electrical generation plants try to keep within a =
5%
variance (so I'm told) the larger variations being mostly due to high =
demand
draw and or weather conditions.
From here, it sounds like you do indeed have a 220v feed to your kiln.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
(showing 113.4v on his 120v line...but the air conditioners are on all =
over
town)
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Alyssa =
Ettinger
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:52 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: 240 kilns, 220 electric
you guys are being so helpful, though i'm still terribly confused...
each electrician, and kiln seller and kiln people at kiln place, plus =
hour
landlord, has told us something completely different.
we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to it, 208. =
(ours
is reading from 212 to 216.) one electrician said it was the kiln =
because
the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on =
and
while off)
=20
--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/464 - Release Date: =
10/5/2006
=20
Richard White on fri 6 oct 06
Alyssa, yes it is time for the longer part of the story... ;-) Can you tell
us more about the wiring situation. You say you had a line run to your
studio. Where is your studio in relation to the main panel that the line
came from, i.e., roughly how far is the cable run from the main panel to the
studio and kiln outlet? Can you tell us about the wire and the panel too -
specifically: 1) is this a residential location or a commercial location? 2)
in the main panel, what amperage is the breaker that protects the circuit to
the kiln (the number of amps is marked on the tip of the finger switch)? 3)
what size wire did the electrician use (the wire size and type is printed on
or impressed into the plastic jacket of the cable every couple of feet)?
In your later post you mention getting 216ish volts. This is about 10% drop
from a nominal 240 source, which is twice the allowable drop per the
national code. But on the bright side, if you had commercial-style 208v
service, you wouldn't likely be seeing over-voltage at the receptacle. From
what you've described, it sounds like garden variety under-voltage probably
due to either insufficient capacity from the power company (which you could
test by taking some voltage readings at an outlet nearer the main panel, but
if so will take some doing to get them to address...) or too long/too small
wire to the studio and kiln (which will result in excessive voltage drop due
to wire resistance). With the data from the above questions I can consult my
electrical manuals and do some rough calculations for you.
dw
Rick Hamelin on fri 6 oct 06
Someone else noted earlier that you should check your circuit breaker box and I am in agreement. Pull out the circuit breaker and see if the contacts are damaged on the breaker or on the buss bar where it makes contact. Replace the breaker and see if it makes a difference.
The next place to look is at the outlet/plug area where the wires are connected. You should also check the connections where your wires enter the kiln.
My outdoor electric meter contacts were burnt out and I had to replace the meter box and my indoor electric panel which was also burnt out.
--rick
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Alyssa Ettinger
> you guys are being so helpful, though i'm still terribly confused...
>
> each electrician, and kiln seller and kiln people at kiln place, plus hour
> landlord, has told us something completely different.
>
> we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to it, 208. (ours
> is reading from 212 to 216.) one electrician said it was the kiln because
> the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
> supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on and
> while off)
>
> as for con-ed, we can't even find a person there to talk with.
>
> we turned kiln on, on a fast fire program, and within half an hour all the
> coils, except the middle ones, were bright orange.
>
> electrician who pulled in the lines we paid for said it's 220. other
> electrician says we don't need step-up converter and it's a waste of $$.
> kiln manufacturers say kilns are not like, say, dryers and are very voltage
> sensitive. that we need a converter.
>
> you guys are helping, but again, differing viewpoints.
>
> plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i might add.
>
> kiln guy we can bring in costs a fortune. at this point, if we're going to
> have to toss in another xx amount of $$, i'm thinking i'm going to buy a
> used kiln for the same money and start fresh.
>
> so...???
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Craig Clark on fri 6 oct 06
Alyssa, I just sent a rather lengthly response to the list. I had not
read the latest from you. It will take a substantial amount of time to
attempt to type out what I think is going on and there are several
questions that I have before I'll be able to give you a definitive
answer. So......I'm here with an ailing youngest daughter right now,
which is why I have time to write this morning. I have a bit of time
and can answer questions, give suggestions....give me a call.......one
thing, if the middle elements aren't glowing then there is probably a
problem with the elements themselves or the controller.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Alyssa Ettinger wrote:
> you guys are being so helpful, though i'm still terribly confused...
>
> each electrician, and kiln seller and kiln people at kiln place, plus hour
> landlord, has told us something completely different.
>
> we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to it, 208. (ours
> is reading from 212 to 216.) one electrician said it was the kiln because
> the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
> supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on and
> while off)
>
> as for con-ed, we can't even find a person there to talk with.
>
> we turned kiln on, on a fast fire program, and within half an hour all the
> coils, except the middle ones, were bright orange.
>
> electrician who pulled in the lines we paid for said it's 220. other
> electrician says we don't need step-up converter and it's a waste of $$.
> kiln manufacturers say kilns are not like, say, dryers and are very voltage
> sensitive. that we need a converter.
>
> you guys are helping, but again, differing viewpoints.
>
> plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i might add.
>
> kiln guy we can bring in costs a fortune. at this point, if we're going to
> have to toss in another xx amount of $$, i'm thinking i'm going to buy a
> used kiln for the same money and start fresh.
>
> so...???
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Maurice Weitman on fri 6 oct 06
At 08:51 -0400 on 10/6/06, Alyssa Ettinger wrote:
>[...] we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to
>it, 208. (ours
>is reading from 212 to 216.)
Hi, Alyssa,
Well... that's significant. It's been 25 years since I've enjoyed
Con Ed's juice, so I can't say whether this is typical, but any place
I've used electricity in NY and CA, the voltage has been within a few
volts of 120/240. Right now, it's just above 120. During peak usage
times (middle of a hot day when there's lots of air conditioner
usage), it may be closer to 115/230, but I've never seen it below
that.
By the way, if you're supposed to have 240 volt service, the PUC says
that the utility must deliver at least 216 volts. They allow a +/-
10% variance. Maybe Con Ed is special.
I know you said that you can't find someone in Con Ed to speak to,
but I wouldn't give up. They really should be more responsive and
perhaps there's something that can be done. Alternatively, your
landlord might be to blame here. Perhaps your panel, or the one that
serves it, is overloaded. Worth checking into.
But... if your service is routinely between 212 and 216 then you
should definitely use elements designed for another common voltage,
208 volts, or use a transformer.
You can get replacement elements from Skutt or a place like Euclid's
Elements in Canada. I just called them and from Skutt it'd be $258
plus shipping and Euclid's wants $138. You should obviously check
around for prices and recommendations for quality, satisfaction, etc.
I've used Euclid's for replacement of two kilns' elements and am very
happy with them.
You can check out transformers (called buck/boost). I just checked
out Square-D. They make a model that I THINK would work for you, but
you should OBVIOUSLY check with your electrician. Here's the URL for
that item:
As you can see, it lists for $138. It will add 12/24 volts at .15
KVA single phase, which is what I believe you need. It will bring
your 216 to 240. It will also, I believe, be less efficient than
properly designed elements.
If I were in your situation, I'd replace the elements with Euclid's.
To (slightly) offset your added expense, you could sell your
"low-mileage" 240v elements. (And don't forget to change the spec
plate on the kiln if you do that.)
>one electrician said it was the kiln because
>the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
>supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on and
>while off)
I have no idea what that means. Perhaps you misunderstood him. The
fact that your supply voltage is between 212 and 216 is enough reason
for the kiln to be running cold/slow.
>we turned kiln on, on a fast fire program, and within half an hour all the
>coils, except the middle ones, were bright orange.
I'm not sure what Skutt's fast fire program does, but the middle
elements are different from the top and bottom so that's not
necessarily a problem.
>kiln guy we can bring in costs a fortune.
You might have other options (aside from doing it yourself)... I'm
sure there's more than one kiln guy in 212/718.
> at this point, if we're going to
>have to toss in another xx amount of $$, i'm thinking i'm going to buy a
>used kiln for the same money and start fresh.
Well, that's an option, and I can understand why you'd want to do
that, but I think for a couple or few hundred, you can be using your
new kiln more effectively.
And as I said earlier, I'm no electrician, and I would defer to
others more expert than me if I'm mistaken.
Don't give up... you're not far from having something that would work
very well.
Regards,
Maurice
Robert Edney on fri 6 oct 06
Voltage will bounce around a lot during the day in some areas. A reading of
212 to 216 would, in fact, be considered 220. However, 220 is not 208, at
least not for the purposes of designing kilns. If the electrician knew his
stuff when he measured the load (most likely with an amp meter) he may or
may not be right about things. If the kiln maker rated the kiln at the
actual draw for a new set of elements (all on at full), then if it's not
pulling the rated amperage something could be wrong with the kiln. How much
less was it drawing than rated? If the middle elements were not showing
signs of heat and the controller is programmed to fire all elements on
fast-fire, that's the problem. Could this be as simple as a couple of
burned-out elements (or bad connections at the controller)? Me-thinks you
do indeed need a kiln repair person to come have a look. Probably worth it
in the long run. By the way, the call for a converter sounds bogus --
that's the last place I'd go.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Alyssa Ettinger
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:52 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: 240 kilns, 220 electric
you guys are being so helpful, though i'm still terribly confused...
each electrician, and kiln seller and kiln people at kiln place, plus hour
landlord, has told us something completely different.
we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down to it, 208. (ours
is reading from 212 to 216.) one electrician said it was the kiln because
the kiln wasn't pulling as many amps from the breaker as it said it was
supposed to. (he had, i think, a voltometer. checked while kiln was on and
while off)
as for con-ed, we can't even find a person there to talk with.
we turned kiln on, on a fast fire program, and within half an hour all the
coils, except the middle ones, were bright orange.
electrician who pulled in the lines we paid for said it's 220. other
electrician says we don't need step-up converter and it's a waste of $$.
kiln manufacturers say kilns are not like, say, dryers and are very voltage
sensitive. that we need a converter.
you guys are helping, but again, differing viewpoints.
plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i might add.
kiln guy we can bring in costs a fortune. at this point, if we're going to
have to toss in another xx amount of $$, i'm thinking i'm going to buy a
used kiln for the same money and start fresh.
so...???
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Pamela Regentin on fri 6 oct 06
Though I've had lots of personal experience with my electric kiln and its problems, take my input with a grain of salt and anyone else, please correct me if I'm wrong.
That said: I would be concerned about the fact that all the elements glowed orange except the middle ones. That indicates a disruption in the circuit. I've had the electrical stuff explained to me like this: you think of the electrical "circuit" as a water hose. The water passing throught the hose is the electricity. If you disrupt the flow by kinking the hose or clogging it, it affects the entire flow or "circuit." If you have even one element with a problem and not heating as the others (or at all) it disrupts the entire function and flow of electricity. My understanding is that you will also have voltage issues with the whole kiln.
Hope this helps.
Pam (who after 25 years of potting finally got her longed-for gas kiln!)
Arnold Howard wrote: Alyssa, your system is 240 volts, but your area is having
severe voltage drop.
I know of one case in Texas where a 240 volt system was
actually supplying only 190 volts.
I suggest converting your 240 volt kiln to 208 volts since
your other kiln is a 208 volt. You will need to change all
the elements and probably have the kiln direct-wired. You
could change the elements yourself. It is not difficult.
Before converting the kiln, you should definitely call
Skutt.
Also, after making a conversion or ordering specially
designed elements, you should change the voltage on the
kiln's electrical data plate, or at least keep careful
maintenance records. Otherwise you might order the wrong
replacement elements years from now.
One of the problems with used kilns is that sometimes the
voltage listed on the data plate is incorrect, because a
previous owner modified the kiln.
I wouldn't be discouraged with the low voltage problem,
Alyssa. This is quite common. Kiln manufacturers deal with
this all the time.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
-------------------
From: "Alyssa Ettinger"
> we;ve been told that "220" is really, when it comes down
> to it, 208. (ours
> is reading from 212 to 216.)
> plus, our other skutt is 208, and running beautifully i
> might add.
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William & Susan Schran User on sat 7 oct 06
On 10/6/06 4:05 PM, "Pamela Regentin" wrote:
> I would be concerned about the fact that all the elements glowed orange
> except the middle ones. That indicates a disruption in the circuit.
Not necessarily.
Some kilns, such as Skutt, use elements of different resistance top & bottom
than the middle. Depending on the controller setting, the top & bottom
elements could be glowing while the middle element(s) are not glowing, but
still working normally.
To really check voltage, you'd probably want to check with kiln on high, at
the kiln. This means panel cover off - VERY DANGEROUS!!!! - only qualified
electrician to due this!
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Michael Wendt on sat 7 oct 06
Bill wrote:
"To really check voltage, you'd probably want to check
with kiln on high, at
the kiln. This means panel cover off - VERY
DANGEROUS!!!! - only qualified
electrician to do this!"
Checking the voltage with the kiln on high
will show a lower voltage than open circuit.
Appliances like kilns are voltage drops
similar to a partial short circuit.
Of more concern:
1. Open circuit voltage must be near 240 V
2. wire size must be heavy enough to allow
1.25 times the desired amperage.
3. The breaker must be 1.25 time the rated
amperage.
These last two are from the National Electrical
Code Book.
If you still can't fire well, consider that the
elements may be incorrect or no good.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
David Hewitt on sun 8 oct 06
Readers may be interested in my own experience of this type of problem
in the UK.
A few years back I was concerned at the life I was getting out of the
elements in my Cromartie kiln. I was judging life by how long it took
to fire to cone 9. I had been getting some 130 firings before the firing
time became excessive and I then experienced only getting about 90
firings.
Our nominal voltage had always been 240, as far as I was concerned, but
because of a European rationalisation I discovered that the nominal
voltage was now 230v with a range of +10% to -6% or a range of 253v to
216v
I have since always ordered replacement elements rated for 220v and the
element life has gone back to what I had previously experienced.
It may also be of interest that I have a meter installed on the feed to
the kiln so that I can correctly see and record the kWh being consumed
on each firing. It is also very useful when something goes wrong and you
can readily identify which element circuit is not working.
When replacing elements I now use a tong tester to check on the current
being taken by each element and hence check that I have been given the
correct elements. Yes the cover is off the back of the kiln, but with
common sense this is not unsafe.
David
--
David Hewitt
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Arnold Howard on mon 9 oct 06
I agree with David. An ammeter is very useful for checking
elements. The ammeter reading taken from one of the cordset
wires will give the total amps that the kiln draws. This
reading plus a voltmeter reading of the wall receptacle is a
good way to figure out why a kiln is firing too slowly.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hewitt"
> When replacing elements I now use a tong tester to check
> on the current
> being taken by each element and hence check that I have
> been given the
> correct elements. Yes the cover is off the back of the
> kiln, but with
> common sense this is not unsafe.
Julene on tue 10 oct 06
I am no expert on residential electricity and only
offer this up because, maybe, somebody that knows
more can comment. This might be of help to
somebody else who is trying to get a clue.
Last month as the electric costs increases in our
area were being discussed, it was brought up about
the different ratings on the
transformer/capacitors on the poles. Residential
being usually marked with 15. Mine was a 5. I
asked the electric company about this. They
promptly replaced mine. I no longer have the
power surges and dimming lights when appliances
kick in. Hopefully, my electronics and light
bulbs will now last longer. Previously, I had
these troubles, but got no explanation. I would
only fire the electric kiln in the night. My
electric bill also showed a decrease in KW useage
this month.
Anybody know why this would affect the KW useage?
And why would the electric company not choose to
have the larger units on mine or other homes?
Julene Kielman
On the grid in remote rural Wisconsin
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