Dan Saultman on thu 5 oct 06
I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
your final straightening.
Dan
Dan Saultman
Detroit
http://www.saultman.com
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 5 oct 06
Hi Dan,
A longish straight Rib...
Not-a-sin...but a Tool...
Used since before the dawn of History, for just
such occasions as you describe...
Phil
el vee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Saultman"
> I have practiced for a long time to get
perfectly straight cylinders,
> particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come
pretty close most of the
> time, but they are not truly "Industrial design"
straight. Is there a
> method that allows you to have perfect, straight
sides. Other than,
> more practice throwing, thank you very much.
I'll do that too.
>
> I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to
throw against to refine
> your final straightening.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> Dan Saultman
> Detroit
> http://www.saultman.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
____________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
claybair on thu 5 oct 06
Dan,
My reply is why do you want perfectly straight
mugs and tumblers? Ok... it was a question not a reply!
Your mugs are beautiful I would love to have any of the ones
I saw on your web site. If I want an industrial straight cylindrical
mug I can get that at any Target or Wal-Mart for a few dollars.
But to hold and use one that you made would be infinitely more
pleasurable and aesthetic.
I'd say practice and master the ability to make perfectly straight
cylinders so you can say you can do it.... but don't take the soulfulness
out of your work.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Saultman
I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
your final straightening.
Dan
Dan Saultman
Detroit
http://www.saultman.com
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Vince Pitelka on fri 6 oct 06
> Well, this isn't going to be very helpful...Why do you even want to throw
> perfectly straight cylinders in the first place? To me forms like that
> seem
> inherently dead visually. uh oh...here it comes...
Patrick -
On the contrary, that might be very helpful. It is a question all potters
should ask themselves. Throwing perfectly straight cylinders is a worthy
exercise, but it is certainly reasonable to ask why one would want to
hand-throw vessels that are perfectly straight. What's the point in that?
Why throw in a fashion that erases all traces of the human hand? I am
always surprised when I see the work of a potter who has learned to throw
with the precision of a metal lathe. It seems to me that they have missed
the point entirely.
That said, when you want a portion of a vessel to be very straight, use a
rib on the outside and your hand or a sponge on the inside. You can get it
mechanically straight with relatively little effort. That can contrast
nicely to another part of the same pot that is more mobile and expressive.
A good parallel is the tubes you can produce with an extruder. Some potters
purchase an extruder and are just delighted that they can produce these
perfect straight tubes, and they make pots that have the mechanical
perfection and aesthetic merit of extruded sewer pipe. On the other hand,
one can take extruded components and alter and assemble them in the fashion
of Diana Pancioli or David Hendley, and the clay comes to life. It's all a
mater of the potter creating forms that are expressive and alive.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Patrick Cross on fri 6 oct 06
Well, this isn't going to be very helpful...Why do you even want to throw
perfectly straight cylinders in the first place? To me forms like that seem
inherently dead visually. uh oh...here it comes...
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
On 10/5/06, Dan Saultman wrote:
>
> I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
> particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
> time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
> method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
> more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
>
> I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
> your final straightening.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> Dan Saultman
> Detroit
> http://www.saultman.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lee Love on fri 6 oct 06
On 10/6/06, Dan Saultman wrote:
> I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
> your final straightening.
Either that, or slip cast or even better yet, extruded.
Extruded makes the best sense, I think. It all depends on what you
want in the end. It is what they do for the 100yen store.
Here in Mashiko, many of the cylindar tumblers and mugs are
handbuilt, by making a slab into a cylinder and putting a pancake on
the bottom to finish it. Sometimes they are kinda cute.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Marcia Selsor on fri 6 oct 06
I pull up cylinders pretty fast. If you want a straight wall, just
finish the surface with a flat wooden rib. Personally I use the red
rubber ribs for smoothing larger round forms for saggar firings (see
gallery on website).
When throwing I noticed I throw dry, much drier than many I have
watched. You can use a chamois to finish the lip or the skin between
your fingers.That takes less time than searching and picking up tools.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
On Oct 5, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Dan Saultman wrote:
> I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
> particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
> time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
> method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
> more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
>
> I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to
> refine
> your final straightening.
>
>
> Dan
>
Dannon Rhudy on fri 6 oct 06
Dan said:
> > I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight
cylinders,..... Is there a
> > method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides......>>>>
Well Dan, there is an easy way to do that. Use a large
rib with one straight side. Push your clay against that
rib, and voila! - straight sides. If you want industrial,
slip cast straight, then slip cast. Keep in mind that you
are not a machine, though. Handmade generally means
some variation from unit to unit. No lectures, though.
You know best what you want your work to look like.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
William & Susan Schran User on fri 6 oct 06
On 10/5/06 8:14 PM, "Dan Saultman" wrote:
> Is there a
> method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
> more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
>
> I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
> your final straightening.
The methods would be: extruded, cast, jiggered.
You could use a long rib or even the corner of a 1x2 held against the
exterior of the form while your fingers work on the interior of the cylinder
to produce the appearance of perfection.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
W J Seidl on fri 6 oct 06
Dan:
Here's a simple, cheap "cheat" for you.
Go to any office supply place and buy yourself one of those cheap plastic
"L" square rulers. I think they sell for around $1.19. (For those of you
that can't see spending the money/have no access, make a square wooden rib
from a piece of wood. Same same.)
Put the short side of the "L" on your bat, using it like a rib while
supporting the inside of the pot with your other hand. Adjust the side
walls as needed. They will be 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the bat. Yes,
while the wheel is turning.
But only until you can do it by eye with a "real" rib, mind you .
Practice, practice, practice.....
Best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dan Saultman
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:15 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Throwing perfectly straight cylinders.
I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
your final straightening.
Dan
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Carole Fox on sat 7 oct 06
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 20:14:39 -0400, Dan Saultman
wrote:
> Is there a
>method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
>more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
>
Dan - when I make tall narrow forms, I use the edge of a yardstick as a
rib on the outside of the cylinder to make sure it's nice and straight
before I start to shape the pot. The bottom edge of the yardstick sits
flat against the wheelhead, with the yardstick nice and vertical against
the side of the cylinder. While I don't leave the pot in this straight
cylindrical form, I imagine it would work for your purposes.
Carole Fox
Dayton,OH
Patrick Cross on sat 7 oct 06
I've basically always considered that functional pottery is first and
foremost a container of something...and as such should be inviting to the
matter it's meant to contain...even if it's meant to just to hold air.
I think vessels should look as if they're "inhaling" slightly. In
nature there are seldom perfectly straight lines...try to find one on the
human body for that matter...but for some reason the human psyche tries to
impose them in the objects we design. The result is many objects that look
out-of-place.
Holding a straight edge to something...as if in judgement seems almost
insulting to the material in a way. Like someone of another world...a world
consisting only of straight lines...here on Earth for a visit and informing
us that we've got it all wrong.
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
On 10/6/06, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> > Well, this isn't going to be very helpful...Why do you even want to
> throw
> > perfectly straight cylinders in the first place? To me forms like that
> > seem
> > inherently dead visually. uh oh...here it comes...
>
> Patrick -
> On the contrary, that might be very helpful. It is a question all potters
> should ask themselves. Throwing perfectly straight cylinders is a worthy
> exercise, but it is certainly reasonable to ask why one would want to
> hand-throw vessels that are perfectly straight. What's the point in that?
> Why throw in a fashion that erases all traces of the human hand? I am
> always surprised when I see the work of a potter who has learned to throw
> with the precision of a metal lathe. It seems to me that they have missed
> the point entirely.
>
> That said, when you want a portion of a vessel to be very straight, use a
> rib on the outside and your hand or a sponge on the inside. You can get
> it
> mechanically straight with relatively little effort. That can contrast
> nicely to another part of the same pot that is more mobile and expressive.
>
> A good parallel is the tubes you can produce with an extruder. Some
> potters
> purchase an extruder and are just delighted that they can produce these
> perfect straight tubes, and they make pots that have the mechanical
> perfection and aesthetic merit of extruded sewer pipe. On the other hand,
> one can take extruded components and alter and assemble them in the
> fashion
> of Diana Pancioli or David Hendley, and the clay comes to life. It's all
> a
> mater of the potter creating forms that are expressive and alive.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Mills on sun 8 oct 06
You could try using a VERY old tool called a Drainpipe Stave:
A wooden cylinder (you can use plastic pipe) incorporating a handle.
The clay is opened on the wheel, and the wetted Stave put in the centre.
The clay is drawn up around it, the resulting clay tube rim finished,
slightly undercut, wired off and placed on the pot-board.
As you may gather this is an old fashioned tool used for making land
drains etc. I was taught how to use one at an old country Pottery I
worked briefly in in the late 50's. It takes a bit of practice but it's
a good 'un.
Picture available for those interested.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Dan Saultman writes
>I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight cylinders,
>particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close most of the
>time, but they are not truly "Industrial design" straight. Is there a
>method that allows you to have perfect, straight sides. Other than,
>more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll do that too.
>
>I imagine it's a sin to purists to rig a jig to throw against to refine
>your final straightening.
>
>
>Dan
>
>
>Dan Saultman
>Detroit
>http://www.saultman.com
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Andrew Douglas on sun 8 oct 06
I've spent some hours this weekend trying to pull tall cylinders. You can
see some of my effort here:
http://potterboy.blogspot.com/
although I made no pots to keep.
I was wondering how much clay would it take to get to 18 inches? In fact,
what about 12 inches? I'm currently throwing between 3 and 5 kg lumps of
clay. I've varied the consistency from quite soft clay (as it comes fromt
he bag) to mixing with a grogged clay (now run out). Either way, when I
pull up, the pot always buckles or twists or bulges.
Usually, it's possible to rescue something - I have got to 12 inches briefly
(although I've found I can pull up to make the pot shorter!) - but largely,
the result is a very thick wall, especially at the bottom. I always try and
pull towards the centre - and consolidate with a rib, as everyone suggests.
Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved,
Andrew.
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:36:51 -0400
>From: Rogier Donker
>Subject: Subject: Throwing perfectly straight cylinders.
>
>Hey Dan,
>It's called patience,practice,patience and more practice. I do not
>know how long you have been throwing so excuse me if I give un-
>needed advice: I find that beginners have a tendency to hold their
>breath when they are trying to throw a cylinder. Holding one's breath
>means that the muscles don't get any oxygen and therefor you will
>come up ,usually, towards yourself while your hands/fingers describe
>an arch. The cylinder thus gets wider at the top. much wider than one
>wants. Relaxing and keep breathing normally usually gets your hands
>trained to come up perfectly straight, hence a straight cylinder. A
>handy trick is : sit upright in a straight back chair. Sit up
>straight and place a broom stick between you knees. Holding the broom
>stick perfectly vertical and plum ,imagine the broom stick being the
>clay wall of the cylinder. Let your hands/fingers assume the throwing
>position and follow the broom stick up. Do that exercise a few times
>and you'll get the hang of it. Straight cylinders (18" tall) every
>time... Loose as a goose yet steady as a rock!
>
>Rogier
>See us on the web at http://www.donkerstudio.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Elizabeth Priddy on sun 8 oct 06
Holding a straight edge to something...as if in
judgement seems almost
insulting to the material in a way. Like someone of
another world...a
world
consisting only of straight lines...here on Earth for
a visit and
informing
us that we've got it all wrong.
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
--------------------------------
This is very interesting in a design sense.
The same quality of un-natural straightness can be
a welcome break from the monotany of organic forms.
Also, straight lines are percieved to be dynamic and
evoke sensations of speed and direct action, both
desirable qualities in perception.
Sraight lines are everywhere, though. Trees, though
organic in form of their branches, are at 90 degrees
perpendicular to the earth when healthy and strong,
you just have to look at them from a distance.
flower stems also tend to be perfectly straight. The
examples of natural forms that are straight abound.
And to make a perfectly straight cylinder, the best
help aid is a mirror across from where you are
throwing so that you can see it without the distortion
of your upclose vision.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Russel Fouts on sun 8 oct 06
>> I have practiced for a long time to get perfectly straight
cylinders, particularly for mugs and tumblers. I come pretty close
most of the time, but they are not truly "Industrial design"
straight. Is there a method that allows you to have perfect, straight
sides. Other than, more practice throwing, thank you very much. I'll
do that too. <<
Try throwing it against a long, straight rib, perhaps a wooden ruler.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
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shall not be construed to deny or disparage others
retained by the people"
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W J Seidl on mon 9 oct 06
Andrew:
Height will come with time and practice, and only practice will give =
your
hand muscles the "memory" to make evenly thin walls .
Were I to make a suggestion, it would be to quit using so much water
when you throw. It weakens the clay, and makes your job that much more
difficult. If your clay is soft enough, just a damp sponge in your =
"inside"
hand is enough.
I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, "out of the bag" isn't =
soft
enough without some vigorous wedging, or a pug mill. Just my tuppence.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Andrew =
Douglas
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:11 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing perfectly straight cylinders.
I've spent some hours this weekend trying to pull tall cylinders. You =
can
see some of my effort here:
http://potterboy.blogspot.com/
although I made no pots to keep.
I was wondering how much clay would it take to get to 18 inches? In =
fact,
what about 12 inches? I'm currently throwing between 3 and 5 kg lumps =
of
clay. I've varied the consistency from quite soft clay (as it comes =
fromt
he bag) to mixing with a grogged clay (now run out). Either way, when I
pull up, the pot always buckles or twists or bulges.
Usually, it's possible to rescue something - I have got to 12 inches =
briefly
(although I've found I can pull up to make the pot shorter!) - but =
largely,
the result is a very thick wall, especially at the bottom. I always try =
and
pull towards the centre - and consolidate with a rib, as everyone =
suggests.
Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved,
Andrew.
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 18:36:51 -0400
>From: Rogier Donker
>Subject: Subject: Throwing perfectly straight cylinders.
>
>Hey Dan,
>It's called patience,practice,patience and more practice. I do not
>know how long you have been throwing so excuse me if I give un-
>needed advice: I find that beginners have a tendency to hold their
>breath when they are trying to throw a cylinder. Holding one's breath
>means that the muscles don't get any oxygen and therefor you will
>come up ,usually, towards yourself while your hands/fingers describe
>an arch. The cylinder thus gets wider at the top. much wider than one
>wants. Relaxing and keep breathing normally usually gets your hands
>trained to come up perfectly straight, hence a straight cylinder. A
>handy trick is : sit upright in a straight back chair. Sit up
>straight and place a broom stick between you knees. Holding the broom
>stick perfectly vertical and plum ,imagine the broom stick being the
>clay wall of the cylinder. Let your hands/fingers assume the throwing
>position and follow the broom stick up. Do that exercise a few times
>and you'll get the hang of it. Straight cylinders (18" tall) every
>time... Loose as a goose yet steady as a rock!
>
>Rogier
>See us on the web at http://www.donkerstudio.org
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for =
free!
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=3Den-gb
_________________________________________________________________________=
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Elizabeth Priddy on mon 9 oct 06
Try this:
The magic number is three.
Mark your wheelhad with a swipe of clay that you can
see as it passes your hand each rotation of the wheel
keep the wheel at a speed where you can both see the
stripe as it passes and that you can easily count each
pass
now begin pulling the clay up with this rythm:
one pass-sqeeze-two pass-hold-move up
so one swipe passes and you squeeze your fingers
together slightly
the second pass and you hold your hand steady
the third you move your hand up one finger width
then do it again.
This is a slow step-wise process that will become
fluid with practice.
Use at least two pounds of clay for a 12 inch cylinder
to begin with. Clay that is paper thin is a
party trick that only impresses newbies.
Your pot should have a thickness of no less than your
pinky finger throughout. Any thinner and structural
integrity is lost. If you are working with
transluscent porcelain, different rules, but you did
not indicate that you are.
This process will get you height, slow you down, keep
the vertical stack straight. Will solve most of the
problems that make tall forms buckle.
Don't try to thin too much on each pass.
That beautiful swooping curve that adept potters
sometimes show is a flourish for the end of the
shaping process, not how you get the height in the
first place.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Veena Raghavan on mon 9 oct 06
Another way to get height: after opening and pulling up a thick cylinder, try
pulling up the top third, then pull up from two thirds down, until you reach
the point where you had started the top-third pull, then go to the bottom and
pull up the last third joining the 2nd third, then even it all out with a pull
from the bottom. You can repeat this, if you want more height and still have
the thickness to pull up. In between, use a metal rib to rib off the wet clay
slurry from the outside.
Hope this helps.
Veena Raghavan
Falls Church, Virginia
Patrick Cross on mon 9 oct 06
Just wanted to say before the Straight Line Society (SLS) puts a
contract hit out on me....I do enjoy a good straight line...Only that in
general I prefer gentle curves more, when it comes to clay...
And when it comes to straight lines occurring in nature I guess I was
thinking about only objects held at arms length...the same as you would do
with most ceramic pieces in daily use. (Joking here)...Why would you put a
thrown cylinder on the next ridge top just so you could stand back and deem
it straight? What I mean is if we're making objects to use in life AND
don't intend for them to look out-of-place then it makes sense to attempt
duplicating aspects of our natural surroundings. That's not necessarily a
judgement statement there...Purposefully making an object to look
out-of-place is fine by me too.
If you get far enough away, most everything will "look" straight...so that's
also part of my point. We as humans do our best it seems to make things
straight...whether physically or mentally. And most things in nature that
are actually straight usually involve taper too...so is that straight...or
is it a extremely long curve. The Earth isn't flat but we sure insisted it
was for a while there...didn't we.
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
On 10/8/06, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
>
> Holding a straight edge to something...as if in
> judgement seems almost
> insulting to the material in a way. Like someone of
> another world...a
> world
> consisting only of straight lines...here on Earth for
> a visit and
> informing
> us that we've got it all wrong.
>
> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
>
>
> --------------------------------
>
> This is very interesting in a design sense.
>
> The same quality of un-natural straightness can be
> a welcome break from the monotany of organic forms.
>
> Also, straight lines are percieved to be dynamic and
> evoke sensations of speed and direct action, both
> desirable qualities in perception.
>
> Sraight lines are everywhere, though. Trees, though
> organic in form of their branches, are at 90 degrees
> perpendicular to the earth when healthy and strong,
> you just have to look at them from a distance.
>
> flower stems also tend to be perfectly straight. The
> examples of natural forms that are straight abound.
>
> And to make a perfectly straight cylinder, the best
> help aid is a mirror across from where you are
> throwing so that you can see it without the distortion
> of your upclose vision.
>
> E
>
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> Beaufort, NC - USA
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
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>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 9 oct 06
Dear Andrew Douglas,=20
If you have recently taken up the craft and art of Throwing I think you =
efforts are producing quite respectable pots.
Regarding the mass requirements let us set some standards. Aiming for a =
consistent internal diameter of 4 inches or 100mm and a wall thickness =
of 1/4 inch or 6mm. This leaves two variables, height and mass (weight =
in common terms)
From 1 lb (225 gm) you will easily achieve 4 ins (100 mm) in height. =
Double that and 8 in (200 mm) is attainable. With three pounds (700gm) =
of clay twelve inches will be a struggle. 16 inches from 4 pounds of =
clay is almost impossible without altering technique.=20
I know there will be howls of derision at the statement which follows. =
"It is a fallacy that adding grog to a clay will increase its strength". =
But if you will excuse the pun, I like to stir the pot.
Learn to throw with less moisture. If you must use a lubricant, use =
slip. Otherwise try to throw dry. Use principles of engineering to solve =
your problems. As I suggest in an earlier message on this topic, =
"Gravity Rules". A way of throwing tall slender cylinders was published =
nearly ten years ago in Pottery Making Illustrated (Fall 1998). See if =
you can finds a copy.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Sarah Ferrency on mon 9 oct 06
You have some nice classic forms on your blog. Many people (none of us on
clayart, of course) who learn to throw well never learn to see/make a nice
form. Besides just practice, practice, practice (I spent almost a whole
semester learning to throw a 14" cylinder, and it was a valuable exercise,
for those who question why one would want to do so), here are some ideas for
throwing cylinders, almost all of which I got from my teacher so I can't
claim them as my own:
1. Put your nose in the middle and pull towards your nose. You'll throw a
cone shape, which is stronger than a straight cylinder. Do this till you
have the height you want or higher, then straighten it out. This will help
with the floppiness.
2. Make sure your fingers are opposite each other on the inside and the
outside of the wall as you throw, so you are squeezing the clay through them
and not wiggling it through in an S-shape. This will help with the tearing.
One way to do this is before you start a pull, put your fingers at the
bottom and make sort of a groove at the bottom to start off with... I'm not
sure I'm explaining that clearly, I could show you or draw picture better...
If it seems like you're not really pulling anything much up or gaining any
height, this might be your issue. Also if you are getting deep finger rings.
2.5. Reduce the pressure between your fingers as you get closer to the top-
you are pulling less clay so you need less pressure to maintain the same
wall thickness.
3. Start with dryer clay by wedging it on plaster before you start, or if it
seems to be starting to get floppy, dry it out with a propane torch, fan, or
blowdryer. Some consider this "cheating"; it is also an excellent way to
prepare a vessel to be stretched really really thin.
4. Use less water when throwing- sop it up regularly, scrape the slip off
your hands and use that to lubricate, or use a piece of chamois to throw
instead of a sponge, it seems to add less water.
5. Keep a relatively thick bead of clay (compared to your walls) at the rim
of your cylinder and after each pull, compress/center the rim- I do it by
pinching it with thumb & forefinger of my left hand and putting my right
index finger over the top. The thick rim holds its shape better, and then if
you want to thin it out, you can do so once you're done making the form you
want.
6. Wedge, wedge, wedge some more. Do you wire wedge? Cone wedge on the
wheel? Are you also having problems with bubbles? Bubbles often cause tearing.
Hope this helps. Keep on keepin' on.
Sarah in Sitka, Alaska
Former lurker trying to contribute the little I know so that in 10 or maybe
20 years I will be allowed to constructively criticize the technical aspects
of this list. If I last that long.
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 9 oct 06
For scale size straight things, take a good look at a
tulip stem, a perfect columnar shape about the size of
your pinky finger and about the length of your
forearm.
Also the wing tip of a butterfly. If it is not
perfectly straight, the thing can't fly.
It's all relative.
Just open your eyes to see the straight lines around
you.
The world is balanced by the presence of both.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
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dwichman@frontiernet.net on tue 10 oct 06
Some really good suggestions have been made to think about and try.
Here is a couple more:
I had been taught that you should only squeeze with one hand - that the
other should be holding steady as something to squeeze against. For me
this makes it easier keep the clay an even thickness.
Another suggestion is to stop for a minute after you center the clay
and remind yourself to be mindful of what you are doing and what you
want to keep in mind as you are doing it(self centering so to speak!)
Also, once the cylinder is "off", or there is one squeeze too hard so
the wall is thin for one revolution, it may be a waste of time to try
and correct, better to lose the frustration re-wedging the clay and
start again.
Debi Wichman
Cookeville, TN
http://www.elementterra.com
Linda Falcone on tue 10 oct 06
Hey Ivor,
Why don't you just tell us what that article says. Linda
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
Dear Andrew Douglas,
If you have recently taken up the craft and art of Throwing I think you efforts are producing quite respectable pots.
Regarding the mass requirements let us set some standards. Aiming for a consistent internal diameter of 4 inches or 100mm and a wall thickness of 1/4 inch or 6mm. This leaves two variables, height and mass (weight in common terms)
From 1 lb (225 gm) you will easily achieve 4 ins (100 mm) in height. Double that and 8 in (200 mm) is attainable. With three pounds (700gm) of clay twelve inches will be a struggle. 16 inches from 4 pounds of clay is almost impossible without altering technique.
I know there will be howls of derision at the statement which follows. "It is a fallacy that adding grog to a clay will increase its strength". But if you will excuse the pun, I like to stir the pot.
Learn to throw with less moisture. If you must use a lubricant, use slip. Otherwise try to throw dry. Use principles of engineering to solve your problems. As I suggest in an earlier message on this topic, "Gravity Rules". A way of throwing tall slender cylinders was published nearly ten years ago in Pottery Making Illustrated (Fall 1998). See if you can finds a copy.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 11 oct 06
Dear Linda Falcone,
No need, Veena has already done that. But visuals in the article cover =
the mechanics. You could also consult Leon Negrosh, "Claywork" (1975) or =
James Fox,"Dry Throwing" CM Vol 21, No. 8 pp 22-26 (1973).
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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