Tony Ferguson on thu 12 oct 06
Hi,
I wonder what people's experiences are with building a kiln using castable as a mortar and having the temperatures drop to below freezing during the night? I am looking at with the recent un-natural temperatures of dealing with such a situation and wondering about postponing a kiln building workshop until spring. I am concerned about the castable used as mortar and its homegenity/equalized tension as it is in the arch and if it freezes, through the expansion and contraction (or if let's say one part of the kiln freezes and another does'nt) if this will cause a disequalibrium in the structure? I suspect it will. In addition, I will have 2 to 4 inches of portland cement, dirt, clay insulative protective coating mixture on top of the arch which will be much much wetter when it is put on thereby the underlaying brick will wich away that moisture from the top layer into the bottom layer re-introducing moisture into the brick and castable as mortar. So, my dilemma is to
build or not build until temperature is not an issue (April or May). Any feedback from someone who has built kilns would be appreciated. One thought is to cover it and put a heater in after the kiln is built for a few weeks before the first firing. Normally, I would let the kiln sit for 2 weeks to let everything slowly dry and cure.
Tony Ferguson
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
curtis adkins on sun 15 oct 06
Hey Gary,
Might a gas or electric space heater used intermittenly, w/plenty of exhaust, of course, work for what your doin'? A canvas tent rather than a plastic or synthetic contraption might be in order to lower the risk of a fire...we used to heat our mess tents in the army w/ a heater like that and my tush was pretty warm when I got kp ! Even before, the actual cooking got started...Just a thought!
Yours,
Curtis "Monk" Adkins
Tony Ferguson wrote: Gary,
I've spoken with a few folks and most recently a refractory mason. This guy fixes bolier systems on the giant ships in the harbor in below freezing temperatures in the dead of winter--he works with many of the Harbison Walker refractory products and high temp brick. He said you need to enclose the area with plastic and have a heat source. He said even a halogen work light will dry it out. I am planning on putting a directional heater inside the kiln and outside the kiln in an enclosed 10 x 20 tented area around the kiln and letting the moisture go out the stack which will be inside the 10 x 20 area. I figure drying the kiln from the inside and the outside will do the trick. You do not want your mortar to freeze and it will weaken the homogenity of the seam.
Tony Ferguson
Gary Navarre wrote:
Hay Tony, Crew,
I hope someone has tryed it cause I'm in almost the same position. For what
it's worth I just went out to check a couple of spots in the kiln where I
used a mix of about 50/50 castable and wet lag.
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/startingthewalls10.html
It is about as hard as a rock while I could still poke my knife into the
soft lag only mix along the walls. It has been below freezing at night and
snowed the other day so I covered it up with plastic and took a break from
laying brick. If I recall correctly the 50/50 mix set up pretty quick.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:05:28 -0700, Tony Ferguson wrote:
>Hi,
>
> I wonder what people's experiences are with building a kiln using
castable as a mortar and having the temperatures drop to below freezing
during the night? I am looking at with the recent un-natural temperatures
of dealing with such a situation and wondering about postponing a kiln
building workshop until spring.
I'm half thinking of shutting down too but on one of my last days off I
mannaged to get 8 more buckets of gravel and some larger rocks to figure out
what to do about where my firebox is ending up. Looks like level took me a
ways out. I'm thinking if I build up gravel and rocks and backfill below
there with dirt I should stop any slumping as the foundation settles. I
would like to have the pignose stoke hole about thigh high or more to avoid
crawling on the ground to stoke. So this is where I left off
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/analizingprogress7.html
I am concerned about the castable used as mortar and its
homegenity/equalized tension as it is in the arch and if it freezes, through
the expansion and contraction (or if let's say one part of the kiln freezes
and another does'nt) if this will cause a disequalibrium in the structure?
I suspect it will. In addition, I will have 2 to 4 inches of portland
cement, dirt, clay insulative protective coating mixture on top of the arch
which will be much much wetter when it is put on thereby the underlaying
brick will wich away that moisture from the top layer into the bottom layer
re-introducing moisture into the brick and castable as mortar.
If I manage to get the complete inner shell done with a bit of stack I'm
going to start a pile of bricketts and dry the hardbrick shell first then
cover it with something else. Didn't I hear somewhere cement generates heat
while curing? I bet with a dry shell and covering the outer coating with
plastic to hold the heat generated untill it set might work.
So, my dilemma is to
> build or not build until temperature is not an issue (April or May). Any
feedback from someone who has built kilns would be appreciated. One thought
is to cover it and put a heater in after the kiln is built for a few weeks
before the first firing. Normally, I would let the kiln sit for 2 weeks to
let everything slowly dry and cure.
>
> Tony Ferguson
So I too am thinking of shutting her down and persuing the other projects.
Wasn't I hoping for a cold snap (sorry about that, guess I just got them
skills) so we could start brushing? On that same day off I figured I better
start collecting greens for the wreaths and took some new shots of snipping
around Peter's abandoned Willies Jeep. I added them to
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/ctp/
As before I save the sticks for secondary stoke hole fuel. It's all part of
the cycle of making. Doesn't need to get any better than this but it
probably will. Stay in there!
G in da U.P.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Gary Navarre on sun 15 oct 06
Hay Tony, Crew,
I hope someone has tryed it cause I'm in almost the same position. For what
it's worth I just went out to check a couple of spots in the kiln where I
used a mix of about 50/50 castable and wet lag.
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/startingthewalls10.html
It is about as hard as a rock while I could still poke my knife into the
soft lag only mix along the walls. It has been below freezing at night and
snowed the other day so I covered it up with plastic and took a break from
laying brick. If I recall correctly the 50/50 mix set up pretty quick.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:05:28 -0700, Tony Ferguson wrote:
>Hi,
>
> I wonder what people's experiences are with building a kiln using
castable as a mortar and having the temperatures drop to below freezing
during the night? I am looking at with the recent un-natural temperatures
of dealing with such a situation and wondering about postponing a kiln
building workshop until spring.
I'm half thinking of shutting down too but on one of my last days off I
mannaged to get 8 more buckets of gravel and some larger rocks to figure out
what to do about where my firebox is ending up. Looks like level took me a
ways out. I'm thinking if I build up gravel and rocks and backfill below
there with dirt I should stop any slumping as the foundation settles. I
would like to have the pignose stoke hole about thigh high or more to avoid
crawling on the ground to stoke. So this is where I left off
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/analizingprogress7.html
I am concerned about the castable used as mortar and its
homegenity/equalized tension as it is in the arch and if it freezes, through
the expansion and contraction (or if let's say one part of the kiln freezes
and another does'nt) if this will cause a disequalibrium in the structure?
I suspect it will. In addition, I will have 2 to 4 inches of portland
cement, dirt, clay insulative protective coating mixture on top of the arch
which will be much much wetter when it is put on thereby the underlaying
brick will wich away that moisture from the top layer into the bottom layer
re-introducing moisture into the brick and castable as mortar.
If I manage to get the complete inner shell done with a bit of stack I'm
going to start a pile of bricketts and dry the hardbrick shell first then
cover it with something else. Didn't I hear somewhere cement generates heat
while curing? I bet with a dry shell and covering the outer coating with
plastic to hold the heat generated untill it set might work.
So, my dilemma is to
> build or not build until temperature is not an issue (April or May). Any
feedback from someone who has built kilns would be appreciated. One thought
is to cover it and put a heater in after the kiln is built for a few weeks
before the first firing. Normally, I would let the kiln sit for 2 weeks to
let everything slowly dry and cure.
>
> Tony Ferguson
So I too am thinking of shutting her down and persuing the other projects.
Wasn't I hoping for a cold snap (sorry about that, guess I just got them
skills) so we could start brushing? On that same day off I figured I better
start collecting greens for the wreaths and took some new shots of snipping
around Peter's abandoned Willies Jeep. I added them to
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/ctp/
As before I save the sticks for secondary stoke hole fuel. It's all part of
the cycle of making. Doesn't need to get any better than this but it
probably will. Stay in there!
G in da U.P.
Tony Ferguson on sun 15 oct 06
Gary,
I've spoken with a few folks and most recently a refractory mason. This guy fixes bolier systems on the giant ships in the harbor in below freezing temperatures in the dead of winter--he works with many of the Harbison Walker refractory products and high temp brick. He said you need to enclose the area with plastic and have a heat source. He said even a halogen work light will dry it out. I am planning on putting a directional heater inside the kiln and outside the kiln in an enclosed 10 x 20 tented area around the kiln and letting the moisture go out the stack which will be inside the 10 x 20 area. I figure drying the kiln from the inside and the outside will do the trick. You do not want your mortar to freeze and it will weaken the homogenity of the seam.
Tony Ferguson
Gary Navarre wrote:
Hay Tony, Crew,
I hope someone has tryed it cause I'm in almost the same position. For what
it's worth I just went out to check a couple of spots in the kiln where I
used a mix of about 50/50 castable and wet lag.
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/startingthewalls10.html
It is about as hard as a rock while I could still poke my knife into the
soft lag only mix along the walls. It has been below freezing at night and
snowed the other day so I covered it up with plastic and took a break from
laying brick. If I recall correctly the 50/50 mix set up pretty quick.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:05:28 -0700, Tony Ferguson wrote:
>Hi,
>
> I wonder what people's experiences are with building a kiln using
castable as a mortar and having the temperatures drop to below freezing
during the night? I am looking at with the recent un-natural temperatures
of dealing with such a situation and wondering about postponing a kiln
building workshop until spring.
I'm half thinking of shutting down too but on one of my last days off I
mannaged to get 8 more buckets of gravel and some larger rocks to figure out
what to do about where my firebox is ending up. Looks like level took me a
ways out. I'm thinking if I build up gravel and rocks and backfill below
there with dirt I should stop any slumping as the foundation settles. I
would like to have the pignose stoke hole about thigh high or more to avoid
crawling on the ground to stoke. So this is where I left off
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/analizingprogress7.html
I am concerned about the castable used as mortar and its
homegenity/equalized tension as it is in the arch and if it freezes, through
the expansion and contraction (or if let's say one part of the kiln freezes
and another does'nt) if this will cause a disequalibrium in the structure?
I suspect it will. In addition, I will have 2 to 4 inches of portland
cement, dirt, clay insulative protective coating mixture on top of the arch
which will be much much wetter when it is put on thereby the underlaying
brick will wich away that moisture from the top layer into the bottom layer
re-introducing moisture into the brick and castable as mortar.
If I manage to get the complete inner shell done with a bit of stack I'm
going to start a pile of bricketts and dry the hardbrick shell first then
cover it with something else. Didn't I hear somewhere cement generates heat
while curing? I bet with a dry shell and covering the outer coating with
plastic to hold the heat generated untill it set might work.
So, my dilemma is to
> build or not build until temperature is not an issue (April or May). Any
feedback from someone who has built kilns would be appreciated. One thought
is to cover it and put a heater in after the kiln is built for a few weeks
before the first firing. Normally, I would let the kiln sit for 2 weeks to
let everything slowly dry and cure.
>
> Tony Ferguson
So I too am thinking of shutting her down and persuing the other projects.
Wasn't I hoping for a cold snap (sorry about that, guess I just got them
skills) so we could start brushing? On that same day off I figured I better
start collecting greens for the wreaths and took some new shots of snipping
around Peter's abandoned Willies Jeep. I added them to
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/ctp/
As before I save the sticks for secondary stoke hole fuel. It's all part of
the cycle of making. Doesn't need to get any better than this but it
probably will. Stay in there!
G in da U.P.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Duluth, Minnesota
Artist, Educator, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
Gary Navarre on tue 17 oct 06
Thanks for jumpin in Curt,
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:58:43 -0700, curtis adkins wrote:
>Hey Gary,
>
>Might a gas or electric space heater used intermittenly, w/plenty of
exhaust, of course, work for what your doin'? A canvas tent rather than a
plastic or synthetic contraption might be in order to lower the risk of a
fire...we used to heat our mess tents in the army w/ a heater like that and
my tush was pretty warm when I got kp ! Even before, the actual cooking got
started...Just a thought!
Well the plastic I have is from the covering Wal*Mart had on the greenhouse
last year and they let me have it when we shut it down. It must be about 10
mil. and in huge pieces. I'm thinking of using saplings to make a temporary
wigwam for some protection untill it just get's too cold. This is a low
budget opperation and I know what using an electric heater costs from using
one in that cabin down below. It kept me from freezing but at the end wound
up with pneumonia.
>Tony Ferguson wrote: Gary,
>
> I've spoken with a few folks and most recently a refractory mason. This
guy fixes bolier systems on the giant ships in the harbor in below freezing
temperatures in the dead of winter--he works with many of the Harbison
Walker refractory products and high temp brick. He said you need to enclose
the area with plastic and have a heat source. He said even a halogen work
light will dry it out. I am planning on putting a directional heater inside
the kiln and outside the kiln in an enclosed 10 x 20 tented area around the
kiln and letting the moisture go out the stack which will be inside the 10 x
20 area. I figure drying the kiln from the inside and the outside will do
the trick. You do not want your mortar to freeze and it will weaken the
homogenity of the seam.
>
> Tony Ferguson
Tony, is that heater one of those salamanders contractors use? They put out
but the noise scares me. Fumes concern me too. If that mason said the
halogen works that might be the ticket if you have one. I used them as a
heat source to dry my last coats of mud on walls before finishing.
It was pretty nice out today even though we had rain. I realized I got 3
days off so I slept in. But once I got goin and rounded up Olof we went to a
different spot in the pit and got some buckets of larger cobbles and stones.
After stepping back and taking a look I need to fill in the front a lot more.
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/ca/kpap/hbgma06ac/sbfal.html
(clicking the picture also acts as next)
I saw one bolder of black Granite with some wide white quartz seams I want
for the landscapeing but it was too heavy to get in the van yet. Gonna have
to roll it up on a ramp. For now I'll plug in the floods and see if anything
can get done. Stay in there!
G in da U.P.
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