Donald G. Goldsobel on fri 20 oct 06
In January "05 I attended a Geil Kiln/Tom Coleman workshop so Geil could
make a video to sell his kilns. He offered a good spraygun for sale and it
was delivered several months later with three cracks in the reservoir. I
complained and Geil's employee told me the same story three times: "We are
talking to the manufacturer. Has anyone else had these problems with Geil?
Donald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Llewellyn Kouba"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: To Sign Date on Pots or not?
>I imagine this thread has occurred before but I have recently not been
> putting the /YEAR/ down on my pieces. I thought for a while that when
> you go to shows and have old signed pieces it was not a good thing, or
> that others might deduce that you are not actively productive etc? Of
> course the more important issues of aesthetic and art can not be
> overlooked to qualify as Ceramics worth seeing around for future
> generations. I know a lot of this is personal taste and feelings but I
> would like to hear some input on how you view the archival of a
> ceramists work...to put the year on the work or leave it off?
>
> Br. Llewellyn Kouba
> Abbey Pottery
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Gay Judson on fri 20 oct 06
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:49:04 -0700, Donald G. Goldsobel
wrote:
...three cracks in the reservoir. Has anyone else had these problems with Geil?
I had very much the same situation. I came to understand that there were no
replacements for the reservoir. "At that price you just buy another."
I've been using mine for several months now. This last week it began to
leak a lot of glaze. I used some epoxy to seal the cracks then wrapped the
neck tightly with duck tape. It is holding the glaze well now. Don't know
for how long. I saw the same gun on sale (discontinuing?) for $25 and
wondered if I should go for it. But I didn't. Probably won't.
Gay Judson in San Antonio, TX
Barbara Lewis on fri 20 oct 06
Donald: I had the same problem. After one use the plastic container
cracked in several places. Geil was supposed to send me another container,
but I never received it. Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald G. Goldsobel"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Geil Spraygun-Defective
> In January "05 I attended a Geil Kiln/Tom Coleman workshop so Geil could
> make a video to sell his kilns. He offered a good spraygun for sale and it
> was delivered several months later with three cracks in the reservoir. I
> complained and Geil's employee told me the same story three times: "We are
> talking to the manufacturer. Has anyone else had these problems with Geil?
>
> Donald
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Llewellyn Kouba"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 9:00 AM
> Subject: To Sign Date on Pots or not?
>
>
>>I imagine this thread has occurred before but I have recently not been
>> putting the /YEAR/ down on my pieces. I thought for a while that when
>> you go to shows and have old signed pieces it was not a good thing, or
>> that others might deduce that you are not actively productive etc? Of
>> course the more important issues of aesthetic and art can not be
>> overlooked to qualify as Ceramics worth seeing around for future
>> generations. I know a lot of this is personal taste and feelings but I
>> would like to hear some input on how you view the archival of a
>> ceramists work...to put the year on the work or leave it off?
>>
>> Br. Llewellyn Kouba
>> Abbey Pottery
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Maurice Weitman on fri 20 oct 06
At 16:57 -0400 on 10/20/06, Gay Judson wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:49:04 -0700, Donald G. Goldsobel
>wrote:
>...three cracks in the reservoir. Has anyone else had these problems
>with Geil?
>
>I had very much the same situation. I came to understand that there were no
>replacements for the reservoir.
Hello you gun freaks, you.
Since most of these guns are made in China, many parts are interchangeable.
Harbor Freight's various guns of similar design will use parts that
will fit the Geil gun.
For instance, my two Harbor Freight HVLP guns (Vince calls them
conversion guns, but as I told him, I had the measles when that was
taught) have similar cups that will mate the fittings on the gun.
I've used them interchangeably. The only problem is that their lids
don't cross-breed.
Why do I tell you all this? I forgot. Oh... one of the better
things about Harbor Freight is that they sell replacement parts for
many of their tools. They don't publicize it, but when you call to
place an order, the friendly, helpful (ahem) order taker will help
you with that. At least half the time.
Anyhow, they do sell replacement PE cups and lids.
My HF guns are item #43430 and the cups are part #25278. I think
they're about 8 bucks. The lids are #24248 and cost $2 or $3.
They also sell an aluminum cup (#24856) for around $10. I don't know
about the lids for them, but it may be worth a call and might solve
your problems.
Their number is 800/423-2567.
I would also bet that Sears and others sell guns having parts that
can be used as well.
I have no idea why Geil sells the guns. Geil also sells those funky
(looking, at least) shelves with the slices in them. They clearly
are on the other end of the quality and price spectrum from their
kilns. They (the company) don't seem to be built to deal with things
at this price point, especially if they are of marginal quality and
require parts or service.
As I've said, I use and like the Geil and HF guns and would buy
another from them.
Regards,
Maurice
Maurice Weitman on sat 21 oct 06
Hello, BJ,
Boy, this is a tough crowd. I'm not out to convince you or anyone
else about anything here, but I'd like to correct some things and
give my perspective about this one last time.
First, BJ, how does one tell whether they've got a "crap" Geil gun,
or are you saying they're all crap? Do you have one or are you
judging by Vince's evaluation or the complaints others have had about
the cups that cracked.
I was chagrined to read Donald G. Goldsobel say "No one responded
that they got a good one" when I wrote him separately and to the list
about the good experience I had with Geil's gun. My Geil cup hasn't
cracked.
I don't know Paul Geil, but I've met and spoken with him several
times. And I've heard from several potters how helpful he has been
to them, how generous he's been with his time, and how well his kilns
work and how he stands behind his kilns.
Have you, or anyone having trouble with his guns tried speaking with
him? As I said before, I have no idea why he/they decided to sell a
product at that price point.
Do you think that those sold by Grizzly are better made? Do you
think they're made in different or better factories in China?
And from my perspective more important to potters, do you think that
the nozzles on the Grizzly guns are good for glaze?
What is the nozzle outlet diameter on the Grizzly? Oh.... they're
two different sizes. One of them is 0.8 mm and the other is 1.4 mm.
Do you think they are suitable for shooting glaze?
I may not be as knowledgeable as you or Donald G. Goldsobel about
this, but I think the smaller Grizzly is absolutely useless for
anything but washes. And I have used 1.4 mm nozzles with MY glazes
and found that size to be marginal. Maybe others will pitch in to
say different.
The Geil I have has a 2.0 mm nozzle. That's how Geil sells them.
They are sold as glazing guns. Geil sells to potters for shooting
glaze. What are the Grizzly guns designed for? Why do you say they
"look to be excellent"?
I'm looking forward to hearing how well they work for you.
The Harbor Freight I use (#43430) comes with a 1.4 mm nozzle, but
when I bought mine, I bought them with 2.2 mm nozzles and find the
spray pattern nearly indistinguishable from the 2.0 mm Geil guns.
Certainly they are both adequate for me. And the HF guns also come
with an air regulator (which HF sells separately for $5 or so).
Maybe I'm
Now I know many have maligned Geil's gun and the company's
responsiveness. It's too bad when vendors don't satisfy their
customers. I think that's a mistake. Many folks here hate Harbor
Freight anything. Fine. As others have said, you often get what you
pay for. One can pay many times the $40 - $60 for a Geil or HF gun,
like $500 or more. I'm not convinced they will last any longer or
work any better. Maybe so. Someone do a test and let me know.
My father had a hardware store in which I worked from grade school
through high school. He instilled in me an appreciation for good
tools. I own good tools... DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch, etc. But when
it came to buy a spray gun, I wasn't prepared to spend $500 each.
Maybe I'll regret that at some point. Or maybe I'll use mine so
often that I will think it's a good investment to spend over a grand
for a couple of guns. Maybe not.
Regards,
Maurice
At 20:45 -0600 on 10/21/06, BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics wrote:
>Re: Everyone with a crap Geil Gun,
>I was looking through the Grizzly catalog today and saw these:
>http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7671
>These look to be excellent. I, however, only have experience with Grizzly's
>woodworking products, joiners, table saws, etc. and not their spray guns.
>The stuff I've seen, although made in China, have been very high quality. I
>don't know much about durability, because this was in a school setting and
>all equipt. was brand new.
>They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard for
>real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
>adjustable nozzle, I think.
>
>Anyway, 2 guns for $60 is pretty sweet. They also sell them seperately.
>I plan on picking them up.
Donald G. Goldsobel on sat 21 oct 06
Based on the responses to my initial message on the Geil spraygun, I imagine
everyone who has one had the same negative experience. No one responded that
they got a good one. The worst part is they keep telling the same false
story that they are dealing with it-the fact is they are blowing smoke --BS.
I wouldn't consider buy anything large or small from them-shoddy business
practices are worse than shoddy goods. A dealer can replace shoddy goods.
Good bye Geil.
By the way-my local Harbor Freight store doesn't sell the reservoirs, but I
tested the fit and they match. If Harbor Freight can but the reservoirs, so
can GEIL.
Donald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maurice Weitman"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Geil Spraygun-Defective
> At 16:57 -0400 on 10/20/06, Gay Judson wrote:
>>On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:49:04 -0700, Donald G. Goldsobel
>>
>>wrote:
>>...three cracks in the reservoir. Has anyone else had these problems
>>with Geil?
>>
>>I had very much the same situation. I came to understand that there were
>>no
>>replacements for the reservoir.
>
> Hello you gun freaks, you.
>
> Since most of these guns are made in China, many parts are
> interchangeable.
>
> Harbor Freight's various guns of similar design will use parts that
> will fit the Geil gun.
>
> For instance, my two Harbor Freight HVLP guns (Vince calls them
> conversion guns, but as I told him, I had the measles when that was
> taught) have similar cups that will mate the fittings on the gun.
> I've used them interchangeably. The only problem is that their lids
> don't cross-breed.
>
> Why do I tell you all this? I forgot. Oh... one of the better
> things about Harbor Freight is that they sell replacement parts for
> many of their tools. They don't publicize it, but when you call to
> place an order, the friendly, helpful (ahem) order taker will help
> you with that. At least half the time.
>
> Anyhow, they do sell replacement PE cups and lids.
>
> My HF guns are item #43430 and the cups are part #25278. I think
> they're about 8 bucks. The lids are #24248 and cost $2 or $3.
>
> They also sell an aluminum cup (#24856) for around $10. I don't know
> about the lids for them, but it may be worth a call and might solve
> your problems.
>
> Their number is 800/423-2567.
>
> I would also bet that Sears and others sell guns having parts that
> can be used as well.
>
> I have no idea why Geil sells the guns. Geil also sells those funky
> (looking, at least) shelves with the slices in them. They clearly
> are on the other end of the quality and price spectrum from their
> kilns. They (the company) don't seem to be built to deal with things
> at this price point, especially if they are of marginal quality and
> require parts or service.
>
> As I've said, I use and like the Geil and HF guns and would buy
> another from them.
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics on sat 21 oct 06
Re: Everyone with a crap Geil Gun,
I was looking through the Grizzly catalog today and saw these:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7671
These look to be excellent. I, however, only have experience with Grizzly's
woodworking products, joiners, table saws, etc. and not their spray guns.
The stuff I've seen, although made in China, have been very high quality. I
don't know much about durability, because this was in a school setting and
all equipt. was brand new.
They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard for
real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
adjustable nozzle, I think.
Anyway, 2 guns for $60 is pretty sweet. They also sell them seperately.
I plan on picking them up.
-BJ
--
BJ Clark
Stinking Desert Ceramics
bjclark@stinkingdesert.com
www.stinkingdesert.com
On 10/21/06, Donald G. Goldsobel wrote:
>
> Based on the responses to my initial message on the Geil spraygun, I
> imagine
> everyone who has one had the same negative experience. No one responded
> that
> they got a good one. The worst part is they keep telling the same false
> story that they are dealing with it-the fact is they are blowing smoke
> --BS.
> I wouldn't consider buy anything large or small from them-shoddy business
> practices are worse than shoddy goods. A dealer can replace shoddy goods.
> Good bye Geil.
>
> By the way-my local Harbor Freight store doesn't sell the reservoirs, but
> I
> tested the fit and they match. If Harbor Freight can but the reservoirs,
> so
> can GEIL.
>
> Donald
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maurice Weitman"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Geil Spraygun-Defective
>
>
> > At 16:57 -0400 on 10/20/06, Gay Judson wrote:
> >>On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:49:04 -0700, Donald G. Goldsobel
> >>
> >>wrote:
> >>...three cracks in the reservoir. Has anyone else had these problems
> >>with Geil?
> >>
> >>I had very much the same situation. I came to understand that there
> were
> >>no
> >>replacements for the reservoir.
> >
> > Hello you gun freaks, you.
> >
> > Since most of these guns are made in China, many parts are
> > interchangeable.
> >
> > Harbor Freight's various guns of similar design will use parts that
> > will fit the Geil gun.
> >
> > For instance, my two Harbor Freight HVLP guns (Vince calls them
> > conversion guns, but as I told him, I had the measles when that was
> > taught) have similar cups that will mate the fittings on the gun.
> > I've used them interchangeably. The only problem is that their lids
> > don't cross-breed.
> >
> > Why do I tell you all this? I forgot. Oh... one of the better
> > things about Harbor Freight is that they sell replacement parts for
> > many of their tools. They don't publicize it, but when you call to
> > place an order, the friendly, helpful (ahem) order taker will help
> > you with that. At least half the time.
> >
> > Anyhow, they do sell replacement PE cups and lids.
> >
> > My HF guns are item #43430 and the cups are part #25278. I think
> > they're about 8 bucks. The lids are #24248 and cost $2 or $3.
> >
> > They also sell an aluminum cup (#24856) for around $10. I don't know
> > about the lids for them, but it may be worth a call and might solve
> > your problems.
> >
> > Their number is 800/423-2567.
> >
> > I would also bet that Sears and others sell guns having parts that
> > can be used as well.
> >
> > I have no idea why Geil sells the guns. Geil also sells those funky
> > (looking, at least) shelves with the slices in them. They clearly
> > are on the other end of the quality and price spectrum from their
> > kilns. They (the company) don't seem to be built to deal with things
> > at this price point, especially if they are of marginal quality and
> > require parts or service.
> >
> > As I've said, I use and like the Geil and HF guns and would buy
> > another from them.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Maurice
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Culling on sun 22 oct 06
Hey BJ
I looked up the manual on these and it says they are NOT waterbourne
material compatable. I was thinking of them as glaze guns were you??
Steph
----- Original Message -----
From: "BJ Clark|Stinking Desert Ceramics"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Geil Spraygun-Defective
> Re: Everyone with a crap Geil Gun,
> I was looking through the Grizzly catalog today and saw these:
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7671
> These look to be excellent. I, however, only have experience with
> Grizzly's
> woodworking products, joiners, table saws, etc. and not their spray guns.
> The stuff I've seen, although made in China, have been very high quality.
> I
> don't know much about durability, because this was in a school setting and
> all equipt. was brand new.
> They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard
> for
> real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
> adjustable nozzle, I think.
>
> Anyway, 2 guns for $60 is pretty sweet. They also sell them seperately.
> I plan on picking them up.
>
> -BJ
>
>
> --
> BJ Clark
> Stinking Desert Ceramics
> bjclark@stinkingdesert.com
> www.stinkingdesert.com
>
> On 10/21/06, Donald G. Goldsobel wrote:
>>
>> Based on the responses to my initial message on the Geil spraygun, I
>> imagine
>> everyone who has one had the same negative experience. No one responded
>> that
>> they got a good one. The worst part is they keep telling the same false
>> story that they are dealing with it-the fact is they are blowing smoke
>> --BS.
>> I wouldn't consider buy anything large or small from them-shoddy
>> business
>> practices are worse than shoddy goods. A dealer can replace shoddy goods.
>> Good bye Geil.
>>
>> By the way-my local Harbor Freight store doesn't sell the reservoirs, but
>> I
>> tested the fit and they match. If Harbor Freight can but the reservoirs,
>> so
>> can GEIL.
>>
>> Donald
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Maurice Weitman"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: Geil Spraygun-Defective
>>
>>
>> > At 16:57 -0400 on 10/20/06, Gay Judson wrote:
>> >>On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:49:04 -0700, Donald G. Goldsobel
>> >>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>...three cracks in the reservoir. Has anyone else had these problems
>> >>with Geil?
>> >>
>> >>I had very much the same situation. I came to understand that there
>> were
>> >>no
>> >>replacements for the reservoir.
>> >
>> > Hello you gun freaks, you.
>> >
>> > Since most of these guns are made in China, many parts are
>> > interchangeable.
>> >
>> > Harbor Freight's various guns of similar design will use parts that
>> > will fit the Geil gun.
>> >
>> > For instance, my two Harbor Freight HVLP guns (Vince calls them
>> > conversion guns, but as I told him, I had the measles when that was
>> > taught) have similar cups that will mate the fittings on the gun.
>> > I've used them interchangeably. The only problem is that their lids
>> > don't cross-breed.
>> >
>> > Why do I tell you all this? I forgot. Oh... one of the better
>> > things about Harbor Freight is that they sell replacement parts for
>> > many of their tools. They don't publicize it, but when you call to
>> > place an order, the friendly, helpful (ahem) order taker will help
>> > you with that. At least half the time.
>> >
>> > Anyhow, they do sell replacement PE cups and lids.
>> >
>> > My HF guns are item #43430 and the cups are part #25278. I think
>> > they're about 8 bucks. The lids are #24248 and cost $2 or $3.
>> >
>> > They also sell an aluminum cup (#24856) for around $10. I don't know
>> > about the lids for them, but it may be worth a call and might solve
>> > your problems.
>> >
>> > Their number is 800/423-2567.
>> >
>> > I would also bet that Sears and others sell guns having parts that
>> > can be used as well.
>> >
>> > I have no idea why Geil sells the guns. Geil also sells those funky
>> > (looking, at least) shelves with the slices in them. They clearly
>> > are on the other end of the quality and price spectrum from their
>> > kilns. They (the company) don't seem to be built to deal with things
>> > at this price point, especially if they are of marginal quality and
>> > require parts or service.
>> >
>> > As I've said, I use and like the Geil and HF guns and would buy
>> > another from them.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Maurice
>> >
>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>> >
>> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>> >
>> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> > melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Richard Aerni on sun 22 oct 06
Hi everyone,
A couple of points here, which I've made before and will sound like a broken
record to old-timers...
First, before you publicly bash a company, their products and service,
please be responsible and try to resolve your problem with them privately,
as far as you can go. Reputations are precious. Most of us spend years
trying to get them to reflect the quality of our products and services.
It's personal with us, being small businesses. This is also true of most of
our ceramic suppliers. A trashing that takes place on the internet, whether
well-deserved, or simply the result of a frustrating day or incident, can
take a long, long time to remedy. So, put yourself in the place of the
person or business you are thinking of KOing on this forum, and think about
whether there is some other way to address the problem, or in fact whether
the problem is worthy of the criticism about to be heaped upon the
perpetrator.
...and now that everyone has a sour taste in their mouths from that one,
I'll put forth another piece of information on spray guns (again, oft
repeated). The Gilmour Handi-Sandblaster is a piece of equipment that runs
off of a standard air compressor. The gun they sell does not rely upon
interchangeable orifices, as so many of the sandblasters and other spray
guns do. It has a 1/8 inch drilled orifice in a pivoting pin on the gun, so
that the sprayer can adjust the glaze output from the full 1/8 inch down to
nothing without taking your hands off of the gun, or even stop spraying, if
you wish. The gun sells for about $50 (US), last I saw. I've got four of
them, but the one I started using in 1980 is still going strong. The
company is located near Pittsburgh, PA (Bedford?), and while I don't have
the contact information at hand, I'm sure they can be googled and found.
THIS IS NOT AN HVLP GUN.
OK, enough for now...time to go in and start using that gun.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:35:38 -0700, Maurice Weitman wrote:
>Hello, BJ,
>
>Boy, this is a tough crowd. I'm not out to convince you or anyone
>else about anything here, but I'd like to correct some things and
>give my perspective about this one last time.
>
>First, BJ, how does one tell whether they've got a "crap" Geil gun,
>or are you saying they're all crap? Do you have one or are you
>judging by Vince's evaluation or the complaints others have had about
>the cups that cracked.
>
>I was chagrined to read Donald G. Goldsobel say "No one responded
>that they got a good one" when I wrote him separately and to the list
>about the good experience I had with Geil's gun. My Geil cup hasn't
>cracked.
>
>I don't know Paul Geil, but I've met and spoken with him several
>times. And I've heard from several potters how helpful he has been
>to them, how generous he's been with his time, and how well his kilns
>work and how he stands behind his kilns.
>
>Have you, or anyone having trouble with his guns tried speaking with
>him? As I said before, I have no idea why he/they decided to sell a
>product at that price point.
>
>Do you think that those sold by Grizzly are better made? Do you
>think they're made in different or better factories in China?
>
>And from my perspective more important to potters, do you think that
>the nozzles on the Grizzly guns are good for glaze?
>
>What is the nozzle outlet diameter on the Grizzly? Oh.... they're
>two different sizes. One of them is 0.8 mm and the other is 1.4 mm.
>
>Do you think they are suitable for shooting glaze?
>
>I may not be as knowledgeable as you or Donald G. Goldsobel about
>this, but I think the smaller Grizzly is absolutely useless for
>anything but washes. And I have used 1.4 mm nozzles with MY glazes
>and found that size to be marginal. Maybe others will pitch in to
>say different.
>
>The Geil I have has a 2.0 mm nozzle. That's how Geil sells them.
>They are sold as glazing guns. Geil sells to potters for shooting
>glaze. What are the Grizzly guns designed for? Why do you say they
>"look to be excellent"?
>
>I'm looking forward to hearing how well they work for you.
>
>The Harbor Freight I use (#43430) comes with a 1.4 mm nozzle, but
>when I bought mine, I bought them with 2.2 mm nozzles and find the
>spray pattern nearly indistinguishable from the 2.0 mm Geil guns.
>Certainly they are both adequate for me. And the HF guns also come
>with an air regulator (which HF sells separately for $5 or so).
>Maybe I'm
>
>Now I know many have maligned Geil's gun and the company's
>responsiveness. It's too bad when vendors don't satisfy their
>customers. I think that's a mistake. Many folks here hate Harbor
>Freight anything. Fine. As others have said, you often get what you
>pay for. One can pay many times the $40 - $60 for a Geil or HF gun,
>like $500 or more. I'm not convinced they will last any longer or
>work any better. Maybe so. Someone do a test and let me know.
>
>My father had a hardware store in which I worked from grade school
>through high school. He instilled in me an appreciation for good
>tools. I own good tools... DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch, etc. But when
>it came to buy a spray gun, I wasn't prepared to spend $500 each.
>Maybe I'll regret that at some point. Or maybe I'll use mine so
>often that I will think it's a good investment to spend over a grand
>for a couple of guns. Maybe not.
>
>Regards,
>Maurice
>
>
>
>At 20:45 -0600 on 10/21/06, BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics wrote:
>>Re: Everyone with a crap Geil Gun,
>>I was looking through the Grizzly catalog today and saw these:
>>http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7671
>>These look to be excellent. I, however, only have experience with Grizzly's
>>woodworking products, joiners, table saws, etc. and not their spray guns.
>>The stuff I've seen, although made in China, have been very high quality. I
>>don't know much about durability, because this was in a school setting and
>>all equipt. was brand new.
>>They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard for
>>real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
>>adjustable nozzle, I think.
>>
>>Anyway, 2 guns for $60 is pretty sweet. They also sell them seperately.
>>I plan on picking them up.
>
Donald G. Goldsobel on sun 22 oct 06
Richard,
I called Geil and was told on three separate occasions over a one year
period that they are negotiating or working with the manufacturer in China.
I gave them every opportunity to stand up for their product and make good on
it. They failed. If they value a good reputation they should be responsible
for the product and not shine a consumer on about we are working on it
excuses for over a year.
Thank you for your well intentioned caution.
Donald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Aerni"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: Geil Spraygun-Defective
> Hi everyone,
>
> A couple of points here, which I've made before and will sound like a
> broken
> record to old-timers...
>
> First, before you publicly bash a company, their products and service,
> please be responsible and try to resolve your problem with them privately,
> as far as you can go. Reputations are precious. Most of us spend years
> trying to get them to reflect the quality of our products and services.
> It's personal with us, being small businesses. This is also true of most
> of
> our ceramic suppliers. A trashing that takes place on the internet,
> whether
> well-deserved, or simply the result of a frustrating day or incident, can
> take a long, long time to remedy. So, put yourself in the place of the
> person or business you are thinking of KOing on this forum, and think
> about
> whether there is some other way to address the problem, or in fact whether
> the problem is worthy of the criticism about to be heaped upon the
> perpetrator.
>
> ...and now that everyone has a sour taste in their mouths from that one,
> I'll put forth another piece of information on spray guns (again, oft
> repeated). The Gilmour Handi-Sandblaster is a piece of equipment that
> runs
> off of a standard air compressor. The gun they sell does not rely upon
> interchangeable orifices, as so many of the sandblasters and other spray
> guns do. It has a 1/8 inch drilled orifice in a pivoting pin on the gun,
> so
> that the sprayer can adjust the glaze output from the full 1/8 inch down
> to
> nothing without taking your hands off of the gun, or even stop spraying,
> if
> you wish. The gun sells for about $50 (US), last I saw. I've got four of
> them, but the one I started using in 1980 is still going strong. The
> company is located near Pittsburgh, PA (Bedford?), and while I don't have
> the contact information at hand, I'm sure they can be googled and found.
> THIS IS NOT AN HVLP GUN.
>
> OK, enough for now...time to go in and start using that gun.
> Best,
> Richard Aerni
> Rochester, NY
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:35:38 -0700, Maurice Weitman wrote:
>
>>Hello, BJ,
>>
>>Boy, this is a tough crowd. I'm not out to convince you or anyone
>>else about anything here, but I'd like to correct some things and
>>give my perspective about this one last time.
>>
>>First, BJ, how does one tell whether they've got a "crap" Geil gun,
>>or are you saying they're all crap? Do you have one or are you
>>judging by Vince's evaluation or the complaints others have had about
>>the cups that cracked.
>>
>>I was chagrined to read Donald G. Goldsobel say "No one responded
>>that they got a good one" when I wrote him separately and to the list
>>about the good experience I had with Geil's gun. My Geil cup hasn't
>>cracked.
>>
>>I don't know Paul Geil, but I've met and spoken with him several
>>times. And I've heard from several potters how helpful he has been
>>to them, how generous he's been with his time, and how well his kilns
>>work and how he stands behind his kilns.
>>
>>Have you, or anyone having trouble with his guns tried speaking with
>>him? As I said before, I have no idea why he/they decided to sell a
>>product at that price point.
>>
>>Do you think that those sold by Grizzly are better made? Do you
>>think they're made in different or better factories in China?
>>
>>And from my perspective more important to potters, do you think that
>>the nozzles on the Grizzly guns are good for glaze?
>>
>>What is the nozzle outlet diameter on the Grizzly? Oh.... they're
>>two different sizes. One of them is 0.8 mm and the other is 1.4 mm.
>>
>>Do you think they are suitable for shooting glaze?
>>
>>I may not be as knowledgeable as you or Donald G. Goldsobel about
>>this, but I think the smaller Grizzly is absolutely useless for
>>anything but washes. And I have used 1.4 mm nozzles with MY glazes
>>and found that size to be marginal. Maybe others will pitch in to
>>say different.
>>
>>The Geil I have has a 2.0 mm nozzle. That's how Geil sells them.
>>They are sold as glazing guns. Geil sells to potters for shooting
>>glaze. What are the Grizzly guns designed for? Why do you say they
>>"look to be excellent"?
>>
>>I'm looking forward to hearing how well they work for you.
>>
>>The Harbor Freight I use (#43430) comes with a 1.4 mm nozzle, but
>>when I bought mine, I bought them with 2.2 mm nozzles and find the
>>spray pattern nearly indistinguishable from the 2.0 mm Geil guns.
>>Certainly they are both adequate for me. And the HF guns also come
>>with an air regulator (which HF sells separately for $5 or so).
>>Maybe I'm
>>
>>Now I know many have maligned Geil's gun and the company's
>>responsiveness. It's too bad when vendors don't satisfy their
>>customers. I think that's a mistake. Many folks here hate Harbor
>>Freight anything. Fine. As others have said, you often get what you
>>pay for. One can pay many times the $40 - $60 for a Geil or HF gun,
>>like $500 or more. I'm not convinced they will last any longer or
>>work any better. Maybe so. Someone do a test and let me know.
>>
>>My father had a hardware store in which I worked from grade school
>>through high school. He instilled in me an appreciation for good
>>tools. I own good tools... DeWalt, Milwaukee, Bosch, etc. But when
>>it came to buy a spray gun, I wasn't prepared to spend $500 each.
>>Maybe I'll regret that at some point. Or maybe I'll use mine so
>>often that I will think it's a good investment to spend over a grand
>>for a couple of guns. Maybe not.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Maurice
>>
>>
>>
>>At 20:45 -0600 on 10/21/06, BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics wrote:
>>>Re: Everyone with a crap Geil Gun,
>>>I was looking through the Grizzly catalog today and saw these:
>>>http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7671
>>>These look to be excellent. I, however, only have experience with
>>>Grizzly's
>>>woodworking products, joiners, table saws, etc. and not their spray guns.
>>>The stuff I've seen, although made in China, have been very high quality.
>>>I
>>>don't know much about durability, because this was in a school setting
>>>and
>>>all equipt. was brand new.
>>>They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard
>>>for
>>>real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
>>>adjustable nozzle, I think.
>>>
>>>Anyway, 2 guns for $60 is pretty sweet. They also sell them seperately.
>>>I plan on picking them up.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Vince Pitelka on sun 22 oct 06
> They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's standard
> for
> real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
> adjustable nozzle, I think.
BJ -
That sounds like a great deal, and I am going to look into the Grizzly guns.
Grizzly does an excellent job of maintaining quality control over all the
products that they import. That is how they earned and keep their good
reputation.
Regarding your statement above, it's not Vince's standard, it is THE
standard. HVLP guns fall into two primary categories - the true HVLP
turbine-driven systems that do not operate off a standard compressor, and
the HVLP "conversion guns" that operate off a standard compressor, but cut
down the pressure with a step-down regulator at the gun. If the gun runs of
40 lbs. of pressure (like the Geil gun) with no step-down regulator, then it
ain't even an HVLP gun by any stretch of the imagination.
High-volume-low-pressure means just that, and the only way you can get the
high volume needed on a conversion gun (with 10 lbs. or less at the nozzle)
is to have high pressure (70 to 100 PSI) coming through a standard air hose,
with the step-down to 10 PSI right at the spray gun.
That said, although I did a lot of research into HVLP some years ago, I know
that there's plenty I don't know about HVLP. I'd be happy to have someone
explain the internal functioning of the Geil gun (or any other conversion
gun that claims to be HVLP but doesn't have a step-down regulator on the gun
inlet) that makes it an HVLP gun. No one has come forth with that
information. I have dismantled a Geil gun, and I find the design and
structure identical to a similar high-pressure gun that I have.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vantuil Varges on mon 23 oct 06
Perhaps in all the debate over guns one important factor is missing.
Consistency and proper glaze suspension for use in guns. Like most
things that are now made in China these guns are probably all made in
the same factory. Socks, DVD players etc all are.
I'd appreciate a few comments on consistency and glaze suspension
agents (What's the best!).
It seems to me that, as experience has shown me, glazes that settle
fast are a problem. I suspect that glazes with lower specific gravity
lead to finer spray particles. Am I correct?
Vantuil
On Oct 22, 2006, at 8:59 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's
>> standard
>> for
>> real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
>> adjustable nozzle, I think.
>
> BJ -
> That sounds like a great deal, and I am going to look into the
> Grizzly guns.
> Grizzly does an excellent job of maintaining quality control over
> all the
> products that they import. That is how they earned and keep their
> good
> reputation.
>
> Regarding your statement above, it's not Vince's standard, it is THE
> standard. HVLP guns fall into two primary categories - the true HVLP
> turbine-driven systems that do not operate off a standard
> compressor, and
> the HVLP "conversion guns" that operate off a standard compressor,
> but cut
> down the pressure with a step-down regulator at the gun. If the
> gun runs of
> 40 lbs. of pressure (like the Geil gun) with no step-down
> regulator, then it
> ain't even an HVLP gun by any stretch of the imagination.
> High-volume-low-pressure means just that, and the only way you can
> get the
> high volume needed on a conversion gun (with 10 lbs. or less at the
> nozzle)
> is to have high pressure (70 to 100 PSI) coming through a standard
> air hose,
> with the step-down to 10 PSI right at the spray gun.
>
> That said, although I did a lot of research into HVLP some years
> ago, I know
> that there's plenty I don't know about HVLP. I'd be happy to have
> someone
> explain the internal functioning of the Geil gun (or any other
> conversion
> gun that claims to be HVLP but doesn't have a step-down regulator
> on the gun
> inlet) that makes it an HVLP gun. No one has come forth with that
> information. I have dismantled a Geil gun, and I find the design and
> structure identical to a similar high-pressure gun that I have.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics on mon 23 oct 06
All:
I'll address a few things.
First Vince: I know it is. I was just giving you a little crap. ;)
Maurice: Well, I said the Geil guns are crap because of the reasons Donald
is giving. "I gave them every opportunity to stand up for their product and
make good on
it. They failed." If you sell something that breaks, blame it on the
manufacturer and don't give a satisfactory resolution, it's crap in my
book. If I bought clay from someone who claimed it to be Cone 10, and it
puddled in the kiln, and they gave no resolution, I wouldn't consider it to
be par for the course and keep buying them. I could care less if they say
Geil on the side. They could say Rolex on them and they'd still be crap.
As far as the nozzles go, I'm 90% sure you can get different sizes. Almost
all guys have removeable nozzles. So I'll just order the 2.0 or 2.2.
As for whether this is made in the same factory as all the others, USUALLY
Grizzley stuff isn't. I don't know for sure as I don't work for Grizzly and
have access to the same website everyone else does and stated numerous times
I don't own one. If anyone knows about Grizzly, they have a fabulous
reputation in the woodworking industry because of their extremely high QA.
They even employ their own QA engineers in China and Taiwan that go into the
factories and make sure everything is of the highest quality.
Finally, you touched on a good point that. These (all of them, from HF to
Geil to Grizzly) are about the lowest quality spray guns made. There might
be some cheaper crap you can find at HF, but these are like 1 small step up
from those siphon things you blow through with your mouth that they sell in
the catalogs. If you think these are going to spray liquid mud like it was
House of Kolor enamel, your just plain
Steph: Most guns say that, including most of the HF ones. It usually just
means that all the parts aren't Stainless and so they might rust if you
don't clean it properly. I will still be using this to shoot glaze.
-BJ
--
BJ Clark
Stinking Desert Ceramics
bjclark@stinkingdesert.com
www.stinkingdesert.comOn 10/23/06, Vantuil Varges wrote:
>
> Perhaps in all the debate over guns one important factor is missing.
> Consistency and proper glaze suspension for use in guns. Like most
> things that are now made in China these guns are probably all made in
> the same factory. Socks, DVD players etc all are.
> I'd appreciate a few comments on consistency and glaze suspension
> agents (What's the best!).
>
> It seems to me that, as experience has shown me, glazes that settle
> fast are a problem. I suspect that glazes with lower specific gravity
> lead to finer spray particles. Am I correct?
>
> Vantuil
>
> On Oct 22, 2006, at 8:59 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
> >> They have basically all the features needed, including Vince's
> >> standard
> >> for
> >> real HVLP guns, a regulator at the gun. Plus metal canisters and an
> >> adjustable nozzle, I think.
> >
> > BJ -
> > That sounds like a great deal, and I am going to look into the
> > Grizzly guns.
> > Grizzly does an excellent job of maintaining quality control over
> > all the
> > products that they import. That is how they earned and keep their
> > good
> > reputation.
> >
> > Regarding your statement above, it's not Vince's standard, it is THE
> > standard. HVLP guns fall into two primary categories - the true HVLP
> > turbine-driven systems that do not operate off a standard
> > compressor, and
> > the HVLP "conversion guns" that operate off a standard compressor,
> > but cut
> > down the pressure with a step-down regulator at the gun. If the
> > gun runs of
> > 40 lbs. of pressure (like the Geil gun) with no step-down
> > regulator, then it
> > ain't even an HVLP gun by any stretch of the imagination.
> > High-volume-low-pressure means just that, and the only way you can
> > get the
> > high volume needed on a conversion gun (with 10 lbs. or less at the
> > nozzle)
> > is to have high pressure (70 to 100 PSI) coming through a standard
> > air hose,
> > with the step-down to 10 PSI right at the spray gun.
> >
> > That said, although I did a lot of research into HVLP some years
> > ago, I know
> > that there's plenty I don't know about HVLP. I'd be happy to have
> > someone
> > explain the internal functioning of the Geil gun (or any other
> > conversion
> > gun that claims to be HVLP but doesn't have a step-down regulator
> > on the gun
> > inlet) that makes it an HVLP gun. No one has come forth with that
> > information. I have dismantled a Geil gun, and I find the design and
> > structure identical to a similar high-pressure gun that I have.
> > - Vince
> >
> > Vince Pitelka
> > Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> > Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> > vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> > http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> > http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
| |
|
