clennell on thu 19 oct 06
It was a was a blurr of a trip to AZ and the international wood fire
conference. Great to meet BJ and Taylor and share a supper where Taylor
ordered food that food usually eats. Both guys escorted by their supportive
brides.
Jason Hess did a great job and got a well deserved thank you 600,000 times.
Jason had the support of his friends Dan Murphy and John Neely from Utah
State to hold his coat while he duked out the details. These 3 guys were not
about big egos and did their jobs well without fanfare and chest beating.
The panels were all excellent. Mr. O's ongi pots and flute playing- moving.
The women's panel-thought provoking. The glaze panel including Daphne
Hatcher showed the sublety of ash effects on beautiful glazes. Our train
panel started by us all going down into the audience so we could see each
others work. Interesting when you're interested in others and not just
yourself. The conference call with Jim Leedy and Don Reitz was hilarious.
I must say I did see a good ole boy thing happen on the third day that I
found uncomfortable. The closing address included 100 slides of that
person's work. Great work, there was no doubt! As for the message I'm not
sure there was one.
I think "the train" is going to spread like wildfire throughout the land. It
is a "I think I can, I think I can" kind of kiln that has so much protential
for firing/cooling schedules, can be fired fast or long, by one person or a
bunch and the pots show surface from quiet to down right nasty.
Best,
Tony
P.S We thought we were thru with the train until after Christmas. We think
we need one more ride this month.
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Sour Cherry Pottery
4545 King Street
Beamsville, Ontario
CANADA L0R 1B1
How To Make Handmade Cane Handles, Taking the Macho Outta Bigware
and Get a Handle On It DVD's available at
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics on mon 23 oct 06
David,
I knew when I wrote that, it would be read the wrong way. You and mel are
just the first few, of many I'm sure.
I know woodfired pots don't have to be brown.
I'm saying 2 things:
1. The train is great because it can get both the super ashy, charcol
encrusted, anagama looking pots as well as the great glaze stuff that you,
Tony, the Hatchers in Tx, etc. are getting. The train is great because you
can get anyting you want from a single design, sometimes in the same load. I
bet you could get some sweet copper reds!
2. There are alot of people out there that are either completely satisfied
with this nasty brown, or can't figure out how to coax anything other than
that out of their kilns. I've seen pics of your kiln/work, and you are the
exception to the rule. Believe me. You weren't at the woodfire conference,
you didn't sit through 3 days of work that all looks the same (with a few
magical exceptions). There was a "Kiln Design" panel that was 2.5 hours of
neither kiln design nor good pots, it was mind boggling how these people got
to present(more like promote themselves and name drop) their weird kilns but
very average pots.
I fully, 100000000% agree with you and Mel. I'm just saying that the Train
is a VERY VERY good design if you want to do something other than the ever
so popular brown, and that's why I think we are going to see more and more.
I certainly didn't say that there aren't any other designs out there that
can do that. I know there are. I know people that have them. There
certainly are ones that can't claim that though. Heck, they have 7 kilns at
NAU, and I'd say there are 5 there that can't claim it. Not from what I saw.
-BJ
--
BJ Clark
Stinking Desert Ceramics
bjclark@stinkingdesert.com
www.stinkingdesert.com
On 10/23/06, David Hendley wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > I also agree that the trains are going to be everywhere in a few years.
> > The
> > reason they are so great is that they are actually realistic. They 1.
> > don't
> > cost insane ammounts to build, 2. can actually be controlled without 10+
> > years of experience, 3. are sized so 1 or 2 people can easily manange it
> > and
> > 4. Actually give good results, front to back. You can actually get pots
> > out
> > of there that someone besides potters will like. You can get colors
> other
> > than brown, which, I learned at this conference, there are only a few
> wood
> > kilns putting out non-brown pots right now.
>
>
> BJ, I have been doing 1., 2., 3., and 4. for about 15 years with my
> Fastfire-style wood kilns.
> I do not have a gas kiln, I make my living with 100% woodfired pots,
> and often fire the kiln with no help what-so-ever.
> There is never more than 1/2 cone variation, front-to-back, top-to-
> bottom.
> As for brown pots, see my article, "Woodfired Doesn't Mean Brown"
> in the May 2004 issue of Ceramics Monthly.
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> david@farmpots.com
> www.farmpots.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics on mon 23 oct 06
Tony, It was really nice to meet you too.
The whole conference was a bit of a blur to my self too. I found that the
pre-conference was worth way more, to me atleast, than the conference. I
was a bit let down by the actual conference. The train panel was great, as
was the Women Who Woodfire panel. But, over all, I learned that potters,
for the most part, give really terrible presentations. There were a few
gems, Tony's was great (not just kissing his ass either). He explained the
kiln, how it worked, his firing schedule, and the types of effects he gets
doing different cooling. Didn't drop a single name, didn't self promote.
The women who presented on the women's panel did a great job aswell. I was
especially impressed by Tara Wilson's presenatation. She's currently a
resident at the Bray, but was one of the only people that not only showed
her work, but showed some reference images and was actually able to talk
about topic at hand (how her gender effects her work). This, wasn't as easy
for many (most) of the presenters. There was some serious name dropping.
Although, I'm told, it was better than NCECA.
Anyway, there was some great info passed along, if you could wade through
the mounds of bull****.
I've uploaded more pictures to my flickr account. They are mostly of the
unloading day. They are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robotdeathsquad/sets/72157594313358459/
There's some cool ones in there, including one of Taylor and his bride, and
their dog.
I also agree that the trains are going to be everywhere in a few years. The
reason they are so great is that they are actually realistic. They 1. don't
cost insane ammounts to build, 2. can actually be controlled without 10+
years of experience, 3. are sized so 1 or 2 people can easily manange it and
4. Actually give good results, front to back. You can actually get pots out
of there that someone besides potters will like. You can get colors other
than brown, which, I learned at this conference, there are only a few wood
kilns putting out non-brown pots right now.
Anyway, It's still all a bit of a blur. I'm trying to go back over my notes
and get something written up so I don't forget everything.
-BJ
--
BJ Clark
Stinking Desert Ceramics
bjclark@stinkingdesert.com
www.stinkingdesert.com
On 10/19/06, clennell wrote:
>
> It was a was a blurr of a trip to AZ and the international wood fire
> conference. Great to meet BJ and Taylor and share a supper where Taylor
> ordered food that food usually eats. Both guys escorted by their
> supportive
> brides.
> Jason Hess did a great job and got a well deserved thank you 600,000
> times.
> Jason had the support of his friends Dan Murphy and John Neely from Utah
> State to hold his coat while he duked out the details. These 3 guys were
> not
> about big egos and did their jobs well without fanfare and chest beating.
> The panels were all excellent. Mr. O's ongi pots and flute playing-
> moving.
> The women's panel-thought provoking. The glaze panel including Daphne
> Hatcher showed the sublety of ash effects on beautiful glazes. Our train
> panel started by us all going down into the audience so we could see each
> others work. Interesting when you're interested in others and not just
> yourself. The conference call with Jim Leedy and Don Reitz was hilarious.
> I must say I did see a good ole boy thing happen on the third day that I
> found uncomfortable. The closing address included 100 slides of that
> person's work. Great work, there was no doubt! As for the message I'm not
> sure there was one.
> I think "the train" is going to spread like wildfire throughout the land.
> It
> is a "I think I can, I think I can" kind of kiln that has so much
> protential
> for firing/cooling schedules, can be fired fast or long, by one person or
> a
> bunch and the pots show surface from quiet to down right nasty.
> Best,
> Tony
> P.S We thought we were thru with the train until after Christmas. We think
>
> we need one more ride this month.
>
>
> Tony and Sheila Clennell
> Sour Cherry Pottery
> 4545 King Street
> Beamsville, Ontario
> CANADA L0R 1B1
> How To Make Handmade Cane Handles, Taking the Macho Outta Bigware
> and Get a Handle On It DVD's available at
> http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
David Hendley on mon 23 oct 06
----- Original Message -----
> I also agree that the trains are going to be everywhere in a few years.
> The
> reason they are so great is that they are actually realistic. They 1.
> don't
> cost insane ammounts to build, 2. can actually be controlled without 10+
> years of experience, 3. are sized so 1 or 2 people can easily manange it
> and
> 4. Actually give good results, front to back. You can actually get pots
> out
> of there that someone besides potters will like. You can get colors other
> than brown, which, I learned at this conference, there are only a few wood
> kilns putting out non-brown pots right now.
BJ, I have been doing 1., 2., 3., and 4. for about 15 years with my
Fastfire-style wood kilns.
I do not have a gas kiln, I make my living with 100% woodfired pots,
and often fire the kiln with no help what-so-ever.
There is never more than 1/2 cone variation, front-to-back, top-to-
bottom.
As for brown pots, see my article, "Woodfired Doesn't Mean Brown"
in the May 2004 issue of Ceramics Monthly.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david@farmpots.com
www.farmpots.com
Paul Herman on tue 24 oct 06
Hi BJ,
I thought the conference was very good, though the closing address
left a lot to be desired (like coherent thought).
The yucky brown wood fired pots that everyone is so unsatisfied with
have a lot to do with their choice of clay body, and very little to
do with what kind of kiln they were fired in. Most people make this
mistake when they first start firing in a wood kiln. They make some
stuff out of their cone ten clay, which fires to a nice toasty brown
in the gas kiln. When it gets a coat of melted ash, it turns the
yucky brown.
If you want to get nice, colorful, light colored work from a wood
kiln, you should use a light colored clay, such as porcelain or white
stoneware. Then you will see the colors.
As for train kilns making better colors, I'm not buying that. If a
potter gets to know his or her kiln well, and spends some time
learning to fire that particular kiln, the ability to achieve a range
of colors will become apparent. In the anagama we fire here, it is
possible to get very ashey work, or glazed and colorful work.
The firings there at NAU are too short of an experience to dismiss
five out of seven kilns as only good for making yucky brown pots. In
the hands of someone who knows the kiln, a whole range of surfaces
become possible. It's the potter, not the kiln. After watching the
stoking of the train kiln, I could summarily declare that they are
horribly inefficient, and it takes a whole wheelbarrow of wood to
stoke it one time, because that's what they were doing. But I suspect
that an experienced firer would be able to do it with less extreme
stokes, more efficiently.
So while I think the trains are dandy, with many good features, they
are not the only way to get colorful work.
OK, I'll be devil's advocate on the train kiln. Looking at them, and
how many bricks they use in that massive firebox, this comes to mind:
You could tear down everything but the chimney, and use the same
bricks to build an anagama with twice the firing capacity. Trains use
more brick per cubic foot of ware than any I've seen yet.
By the way, how did the celadon glaze come out?
Good colorful firings,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Oct 23, 2006, at 3:58 PM, BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics wrote:
> David,
> I knew when I wrote that, it would be read the wrong way. You and
> mel are
> just the first few, of many I'm sure.
> I know woodfired pots don't have to be brown.
> I'm saying 2 things:
> 1. The train is great because it can get both the super ashy, charcol
> encrusted, anagama looking pots as well as the great glaze stuff
> that you,
> Tony, the Hatchers in Tx, etc. are getting. The train is great
> because you
> can get anyting you want from a single design, sometimes in the
> same load. I
> bet you could get some sweet copper reds!
> 2. There are alot of people out there that are either completely
> satisfied
> with this nasty brown, or can't figure out how to coax anything
> other than
> that out of their kilns. I've seen pics of your kiln/work, and you
> are the
> exception to the rule. Believe me. You weren't at the woodfire
> conference,
> you didn't sit through 3 days of work that all looks the same (with
> a few
> magical exceptions). There was a "Kiln Design" panel that was 2.5
> hours of
> neither kiln design nor good pots, it was mind boggling how these
> people got
> to present(more like promote themselves and name drop) their weird
> kilns but
> very average pots.
>
> I fully, 100000000% agree with you and Mel. I'm just saying that
> the Train
> is a VERY VERY good design if you want to do something other than
> the ever
> so popular brown, and that's why I think we are going to see more
> and more.
> I certainly didn't say that there aren't any other designs out
> there that
> can do that. I know there are. I know people that have them. There
> certainly are ones that can't claim that though. Heck, they have 7
> kilns at
> NAU, and I'd say there are 5 there that can't claim it. Not from
> what I saw.
>
> -BJ
>
Taylor Hendrix on tue 24 oct 06
Hey Paul,
I sure wish I could have talked with you for a bit about your kiln.
You get some nice stuff out of there and ucky brown is not how I would
describe them at all.
As for NAU, many of the kilns were loaded and fired badly I suspect.
Many said as much. That was to be expected with the oodles of people
there wanting to be front and center. Still it was a good introduction
to wood firing. My anagama pots had the least amount of ash deposits
of all my pots, by the way. They were naked comercial cone 10
stoneware and I kind of like them.
As for the train, hell yes they use a bunch of brick. I'm wondering
why the Harrison type bourry kilns have such lower fireboxes and
Neeley's (sp?) train has such a high bourry style box. Must be those
brick-hungry step grates and the aversion of top loading fireboxes. If
you could crawl in the stoking door and remove the grates from that
small train at NAU, you could stand up in that box! Bunch of brick for
sure.
BJ and I talked a bit about the train as opposed to the anagama
(a.k.a. kissyourmama*) and other kilns. What excites us both is that
with the train we see a real possibility of firing with less smoke,
for shorter times, and with one or two people max. I'm looking for
that kind of wood kiln. I wasn't able to schedule a shift with either
anagama at the height of firing, so I have no real experience with
their stoking needs at maximum feeding, but from what Tony has
described with his train and from what I have gathered from other
sources, stoking the train is not a crazy thing at the top. Yes, that
double wide was a monster box; we were throwing in 4 foot logs the
diameter of BJ's head (he has a big head). NOT a one person show.
If someone would design and build an anagama that one person could
fill and fire in a reasonable time, I would love to take a look at it.
In fact I would love to have one. You get to see the pots from the
fire mouth; not so much with the smaller train. Of course there is the
smoke issue with that kiln and the panel on institutional firing was
very very interesting especially the talk on the extra chamber behind
the setting and before the stack for destroying smoke. Kewl.
Now all I have to look forward to is a firing or two in my pit kiln :).
So much depends
upon
a shallow
pit kiln
filled with scrap
wood
beside my barred
rock hens
Tay Tay, in Rock Rock
*That's kissyomama because you won't be seeing her for awhile because
you'll be stoking for 4 days.
On 10/24/06, Paul Herman wrote:
> Hi BJ,
>
> I thought the conference was very good, though the closing address
> left a lot to be desired (like coherent thought).
Paul Herman on tue 24 oct 06
Hey Taylor,
I had a bunch of Barred Rock hens once, they're the best. Real good
mamas too, I had one set and hatch a bunch of chicks who followed her
around the yard.
The clean burning aspects of the train kiln are a feature that makes
it possible in almost any area. And I agree it's good for one or two
people to fire. So I think it's a fine kiln for lots of folks, and
produces interesting results. All different styles of kilns are
usable to their adherents. While I've seen that the train kilns
produce a lot of ash glaze and fire color, it's still different from
the effects of anagamas, for example.
In our kiln, the flames move upward and sideways to get to the pots.
They only carry very fine, lightweight ash onto the ware. It's a big
difference. In the train, the fire and ash is pulled downward and
sideways onto the front stack, and it really piles on and gets
crusty. In the kiln here, we don't get crusty, even on the very front
of the setting. I like smooth stuff.
Another thing that comes to mind is the "firing by yourself" aspect.
It seems like most people want to do it alone, or with one other. I
confess to building a kiln too large for myself alone, with the
express intent of getting a bunch of my friends to fire it with me. I
fired plenty of times all alone, and it gets tiresome.
Anyway, to each their own, and all kinds of kilns are good,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Oct 24, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Taylor Hendrix wrote:
>
> So much depends
> upon
>
> a shallow
> pit kiln
>
> filled with scrap
> wood
>
> beside my barred
> rock hens
>
> Tay Tay, in Rock Rock
>
> *That's kissyomama because you won't be seeing her for awhile because
> you'll be stoking for 4 days.
>
clennell on tue 24 oct 06
Taylor and BJ : thanks for your kind words about the The Train Gang Panel.
Our moderator expicitly told us this is not about you, it is about train
kilns, how you fire it and any features that you use that will help others.
I think for a one or two person kiln it is not train versus
anagama/noborigama. It is bourry box versus open firebox. The bourry box
that I have been chastised for calling the boring box is the key. It allows
you some time to catch your breath, easier on the eyes and body. I think the
Hatchers bourry box step in sprung arch might be a great choice for me if I
were starting all over with the idea of making a living from wood fired
pots. Great capacity, easy to load and a 18-24 hour firing. 24 hours of
firing a bourry box is easier on the body than bending over to fire David's
fast fire in 8-10 hours wearing a welders mask and leather apron. I loved my
fastfires. I built 3 of them. I was 27 then. I'm now 55 and like a bourry
box.
Think firebox design not kiln design.
My old buddy Les Crimp in his mid 70's is comfortably firing his bourry box
on the Wet Coast of Canada.
Build for the long haul.
Best,
Tony
Lee Love on wed 25 oct 06
On 10/24/06, BJ Clark | Stinking Desert Ceramics
wrote:
> is a VERY VERY good design if you want to do something other than the ever
> so popular brown, and that's why I think we are going to see more and more.
How much wood they use BJ? The pots in your photos are mostly brown.
Got photos of more colorful work?
Yes, there are other kilns that do more than brown. Most wood kilns
do. I was inspired by the colors that came out of the soda kilns at
the UofMn and Jeff Oestrich's kiln. Also the noborigamas of Randy
Johnston, Linda Christenson and Ruggles and Rankin.
I was drawn to Shigaraki clay because the lighter clay body.
You can see my variety here:
http://potters.blogspot.com/
You can fire my kiln wearing shorts. If you want, you can
sit in a rocking chair, between the stack of 400kgs of wood and the
kiln. The trick to keeping the front of the kiln cool, is to stoke
to the back of the chamber.
If you don't want to sit in the chair, and don't want to
bend over, all you have to do is put down a layer of cement blocks
before the first bricks when you build the kiln. Or, do as my
friend Jim in Saitama, and make a pit in front of the fireboxes.
When I rebuild my kiln, it will probably be a car kiln.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Lee Love on wed 25 oct 06
On 10/25/06, Taylor Hendrix wrote:
> If someone would design and build an anagama that one person could
> fill and fire in a reasonable time, I would love to take a look at it.
Taylor,
It exists. I've talked about it on the Woodkiln list.
I met a guy a year a go last summer. Built his first anagama
(first kiln) in his 70s. It is a softbrick anagama. The
interesting aspect of it, is that he fires until bed time, closes the
kiln up and goes to bed for 8 hours. When he gets up the next day,
the kiln is still over 1100*C. He opens it up and starts stoking
again. He can fire for 7 days without missing a night of sleep.
My kiln could be fired this way too, because it is slow
to loose heat. I want to try it sometime, just for the heck of it.
My kiln smokes very little. It has a tall chimney.
If you read Kusakabe's kiln book, you will see that his
experiments have found that the height of the chimney determines how
much smoke you have. He shows photos of him making the stack taller
during a firing, until the smoke disappears. The tall stack allows
the carbon to burn up in the chimney.
There are many very interesting designs out there. Don't
choose until you look around a bit.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
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