linda rosen on sun 22 oct 06
Hi Scott,
I am a brand new owner of the same mill also going through the learning
curve. Wish that manual was more extensive! Some things are not really =
so
obvious to someone who has never had a pugmill before.(I am ecstatic to =
have
it) How full is full? Does it have to run full? How long should you let =
it
mix for a homogenous load? I seem to get many loads that just spin, so I
keep adding clay and eventually get it to catch, but would like to know =
how
to add clay and in what combination of consistencies to prevent this in =
the
first place. I am reclaiming clay that is both too hard to use and =
absolute
mush. Should I stick to one variety per load? I wish I knew at Nceca =
that I
was really going to be able to negotiate this purchase because I would =
have
hung about the sales demo much longer. I know I will figure this, and =
more,
out over time but if you care to share any of your experience with me =
I'd be
grateful. I have come up with one tip of my own: If you replace the =
rubber
cap clean and WET it will not stick to the next pug load.
Linda
In Toronto (that's a long way from California!)
Scott Harrison on sun 22 oct 06
Linda
If you do a Clayart archives search at potters.org you will get a
lot of info. Just put Peter Pugger in the subject and body search.
Also call Jared at Peter Pugger 707-463-1333 as he is very helpful. I
am experimenting like you and having hits and misses, gradually more
hits but time consuming. Good tip about the cap. I am trying to pug
on the wet side for beginning students which seems to be more
difficult. I read it's probably better to wet up your dry stuff
before mixing it in with really wet stuff. It seems like a simple
device but then, so does a potters wheel.
Scott Harrison
South Fork High School
Humboldt Redwoods CA
On Oct 22, 2006, at 6:13 AM, linda rosen wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> I am a brand new owner of the same mill also going through the
> learning
> curve. Wish that manual was more extensive! Some things are not
> really so
> obvious to someone who has never had a pugmill before.(I am
> ecstatic to have
> it) How full is full? Does it have to run full? How long should you
> let it
> mix for a homogenous load? I seem to get many loads that just spin,
> so I
> keep adding clay and eventually get it to catch, but would like to
> know how
> to add clay and in what combination of consistencies to prevent
> this in the
> first place. I am reclaiming clay that is both too hard to use and
> absolute
> mush. Should I stick to one variety per load? I wish I knew at
> Nceca that I
> was really going to be able to negotiate this purchase because I
> would have
> hung about the sales demo much longer. I know I will figure this,
> and more,
> out over time but if you care to share any of your experience with
> me I'd be
> grateful. I have come up with one tip of my own: If you replace the
> rubber
> cap clean and WET it will not stick to the next pug load.
>
> Linda
>
> In Toronto (that's a long way from California!)
>
Ashburn Pottery Inc. on sun 22 oct 06
----- Original Message -----
From: "linda rosen"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: pugmill, learning curve
Hi Scott,
I am a brand new owner of the same mill also going through the learning
Hi
We are also new users of a Peter Pugger.
Had lots of difficulty at first but now we sort of have the hang of it.
Just takes a bit of practice - looking into it and seeing what the clay
looks
like and remembering that when we get a good batch.
First I filled it way too full. It didn't mix well. I weighed the clay I
got out of it and it was much more than what they say the machine will
produce in a batch.
I find I can put in any kinds of clay - some fresh, some wet slop and some
dry
and it will mix it well - have to balance the wet slop vs dry of course.
I always start with dry when mixing various kinds and add wet stuff as
necessary.
Nice to see that tip about wetting the end cap. I find that most times the
vacuum will drop fast after pugging a couple of inches. I quickly hit the
stop
button and let the vacuum regain before restarting it.
After looking at their other machines, I really wish that the controls were
located closer to the output end, as they are on some of the other ones.
I have to stretch a bit to reach the stop button when I'm pugging the clay
and want to cut off a certain length. I like to leave the clay in the
machine
until I need it rather than pug the whole batch.
BTW - the people at Peter Pugger have been excellent.
I bought a reconditioned machine instead of new. When I first tried
it the machine would just stall when I got anywhere near a full load.
Danny at PP went over a lot of things including the electronic codes
and after a couple of more phone calls told me they would have to
send me a new machine. Ten days later I had a new machine delivered
to me. They paid for everything including the customs broker's fee.
Later Jared called me and told me the problem was that the electric motor
was not wired properly. I believe my machine is a completely new one
although I paid for a reconditioned one. The first one was almost
completely
new, including all of the cast aluminum housings, the auger and the electric
motor. The said only the reduction gearbox was not new.
John & Carole Bandurchin
Baltimore, Ontario Canada
Alistair Gillies on sun 22 oct 06
Hi Linda,
I have had a vpm 20 for about 12 months now and have just about got it
sussed -
Full - you are getting clay flow over into the vacuum chamber then either it
is too full or the clay is very soft, I tend to put just too much into mine
and have to clean out the rear chamber too frequently - it is a pity that I
could not afford the larger model.
Spinning - follow one of the few hints in the book and put wet slops in
first and into the front [cone end] of the machine. I then add drier clay
further back and bit by bit - let the machine turn once, add some more etc,
this seems to stop the walls of the chamber getting cover with slip - which
allows the spin. If it is spinning put some clay from a bag into it but
don't push it all the way in, only until the autostop engages - let the
paddle turn and cut that new clay - it then smears the new stickier clay
over the wall of the chamber and helps stop the spin. Also try creating a
full vacuum before you start the mix and leave it mixing for 5 mins - this
seems to stop most spin. If I am mixing fairly dry with slops I create the
mix last thing, mix it until it does not spin, then leave it till the
morning - it takes time for the clay to equalise moisture content.
Another cap trick: I pug onto a table lower than the output - if I let the
front end of the extruding clay rest onto the cap it slides along and I tear
the pug off just as it sags - I find this inordinately pleasing :-)
Alistair
Ironbridge Gorge, England
----- Original Message -----
From: "linda rosen"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: pugmill, learning curve
Hi Scott,
I am a brand new owner of the same mill also going through the learning
curve. Wish that manual was more extensive! Some things are not really so
obvious to someone who has never had a pugmill before.(I am ecstatic to have
it) How full is full? Does it have to run full? How long should you let it
mix for a homogenous load? I seem to get many loads that just spin, so I
keep adding clay and eventually get it to catch, but would like to know how
to add clay and in what combination of consistencies to prevent this in the
first place. I am reclaiming clay that is both too hard to use and absolute
mush. Should I stick to one variety per load? I wish I knew at Nceca that I
was really going to be able to negotiate this purchase because I would have
hung about the sales demo much longer. I know I will figure this, and more,
out over time but if you care to share any of your experience with me I'd be
grateful. I have come up with one tip of my own: If you replace the rubber
cap clean and WET it will not stick to the next pug load.
Linda
In Toronto (that's a long way from California!)
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Bruce Girrell on mon 23 oct 06
> I find that most times the vacuum will drop fast after pugging a couple of
inches.
This is a sign that your clay has not been de-aired!
The PP has a seal of sorts, a "clay excluder", between the main vacuum
chamber (the one with the cover that just sits in place) and the mixing
chamber (the one with the door that latches). This clay excluder is around
the main shaft. It has to walk a rather precarious line. It must not allow
clay from the mixing chamber to fill the vacuum chamber, while at the same
time it must allow air from the mixing chamber to move into the vacuum
chamber.
During mixing mode the paddles of the machine push the clay toward the motor
end of the machine, forcing the clay against the clay excluder. This can
create a clay plug that prevents communication between the mixing chamber
and the vacuum chamber. When you turn on the vacuum pump, you draw down the
vacuum chamber, but not the main chamber, due to the presence of the clay
plug. The gauge is connected to the vacuum chamber, so it looks as though
you are getting a good vacuum. In fact, the mixing chamber is still at
atmospheric pressure.
When you change to pug mode, the paddles in the machine reverse direction,
pulling the clay plug away from the clay excluder. Suddenly, there is good
communication between the mixing chamber and the vacuum chamber. If you
watch the pressure gauge when this happens you will see a sudden drop of the
gauge and at the same time you will also hear a different sound from the
machine.
Only when there is good communication between the mixing chamber and the
vacuum chamber can the machine begin to de-air the clay.
What I usually do is turn on the vacuum and wait until I get a good vacuum
indication. I then put the machine into pug mode and hold my left hand on
the rubber end cap, feeling for pressure from clay that is about to exit the
machine. Almost always, the indications of establishing proper vacuum come
before I can feel the pressure of the clay. I immediately stop the machine
as soon as 1) I hear/see the indications of communication between the mixing
and vacuum chambers or 2) I feel the clay start to push against the rubber
end plug.
Once I know that I have good vacuum in the main chamber I put the machine in
mix mode to do the de-airing process. Sometimes I stop the machine and put
it into pug mode again for a few seconds and then resume the de-airing
process.
You can also test to see if you have vacuum in the mixing chamber by
stopping the machine, unlocking and attempting to lift the main door. If you
can lift the door - if a gorilla can lift the door - you have a blockage at
the clay excluder. If you have established good communication between the
mixing and vacuum chambers and have drawn down the pressure in the main
chamber, it will be impossible to open the door of the machine due to the
pressure differential on the door (for the same reason, you never have to
worry about someone opening a door on an airliner while in flight - it is
simply impossible).
Listen to the sound of the machine and notice how long it takes to draw a
vacuum. If the machine draws a vacuum in about 15 seconds or so, you have
only evacuated the vacuum chamber and the mixing chamber is still at
atmospheric pressure. It takes much longer, maybe a minute, to draw down
both chambers.
Bruce Girrell
Bruce Girrell on mon 23 oct 06
Peter Pugger questions:
> How full is full?
Probably one of the tougher questions. I run mine a little on the full side.
It seems to work better for me that way. YMMV. I have a VPM-30, which means
that PP rates the machine for 30 pound loads. If I start with all dry clay,
I use 35 pounds of dry clay and a gallon of water. That produces 23% water
content. It takes only half a cup more water to make 24% water content,
which results in a very different feel of the clay. Pay close attention to
your water content.
> Does it have to run full?
No, but I find that the machine does not seem to pug as effectively when it
is not full. I always try to run it full.
> How long should you let it mix for a homogenous load?
That depends on what you put in it to start. Dry clay powder and water (the
optimal mix) could be homogeneous in 15 min. Other combinations will take
longer. Leather hard scraps may take just this side of eternity.
> I seem to get many loads that just spin, so I keep adding clay
> and eventually get it to catch, but would like to know how to
> add clay and in what combination of consistencies to prevent
> this in the first place.
Ah, the spinnies. The curse of PP owners. Next mixer/pugger I get will be a
double auger model.
The culprit here is water. If you add water or slip too quickly it will form
a lubricating film around the inner surface of the mixing chamber and the
result is the infamous spinnies.
Some tips:
1) Whenever possible, use dry clay and water as your starting point. Not
only will you minimize spinnies, but you will also produce a more consistent
water content in your result.
2) Add water slowly. Add some water, mix, stop, add some water, mix, stop,
...
Working this way at least allows you to regain control fairly quickly should
you get a case of the spinnies.
3) Add water at the nozzle end of the mixing chamber, not the motor end.
If you add water at the motor end, the water can be pushed through the clay
excluder into the vacuum chamber and not end up in your clay, resulting in a
stiffer result than you expected. As I noted above, only 1/2 cup of water
makes a 1% difference in water content. And it takes only a couple percent
difference in water content to be the difference between too soft and too
hard.
4) Check your vacuum chamber after each load and clean it if necessary. It
doesn't have to be sparkling, but there shouldn't be clay piled up to the
shaft or a puddle of water there either. The presence of some clay and/or
water is normal
5) Listen to the sounds that you machine makes. You will learn to recognize
the sound of it working too hard (clay too dry). You can tell if you have a
case of spinnies just from the sound. The machine talks to you. Listen. Yes,
it's voice is a bit abrasive and loud like Aunt Ethel, but put some cotton
in your ears and listen to what it is saying.
6) As noted in a different post that I made under this same thread, prior to
deairing the batch you must be certain that air can move from the mixing
chamber to the vacuum chamber. The easiest way to do this is to run the
vacuum up to 20 inches or more and then set the machine to pug mode while
feeling the end cap to be sure that you don't actually start pushing clay
out. Within a couple of seconds you will probably hear a sudden change in
the sound and see a sudden drop in vacuum. Stop the machine and wait for the
vacuum to be re-established. Once you get a good vacuum, put the machine in
mix mode to accomplish the de-airing.
7) I keep a 1 1/4" wooden dowel around (tapered to a blunt point at one end)
to help move clay around inside the mixing chamber. A tougher material would
be better (because the wood sometimes splinters off, leaving wood hunks in
the clay) but I do OK with the dowel. I use the dowel a lot if I get a bad
case of spinnies. I push clay away from the motor end toward the nozzle end.
I also use the dowel to poke holes in the clay so that I can add water into
already moist, but not quite soft enough, clay. Adding water in a number of
small holes helps avoid the spinnies.
8) The people at PP have been extremely helpful regarding any problem that I
have had. I hear the same from others. They have sent me detailed drawings,
they have spent lots of time on the phone with me and they have even sent
parts for free when they didn't really have to (a part that made the machine
run better, but that didn't affect its safety, for instance). Call them when
you need help. They really do try to do a very good job.
Also, I have a bunch of photos showing the complete teardown and rebuild of
a VPM 30, but I have never put them together as a document. Some changes
have been made to the design since my machine was built so now I don't know
how applicable the photos are, but they should still be fairly
representative.
> I am reclaiming clay that is both too hard to use and absolute mush.
> Should I stick to one variety per load?
You can mix dry clay with mush and you can mix dry clay with water. But
never mix overly hard clay with mush or water. You will end up with hard
lumps in your mixed clay.
Overly hard clay can be mixed with dry, but it doesn't seem right doing that
to the machine. The best thing to do with clay that has gotten too hard is
to let it dry completely. Break up large chunks of dry clay before putting
them into the mixer.
Bruce Girrell
Peter Pugger Mfg on thu 2 nov 06
From all of us at Peter Pugger, we would like to thank you for choosing us
for your clay processing needs.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding your power wedger, big or
small, please do not hesitate to contact us directly,(707)463-1333 or
info@peterpugger.com. Our customer service staff and technical team will
walk you through any learning curve you may be experiencing as you become
familiar with the machine.
In addition, we are a fully integrated facility capable of custom
configurations such as forward mounted controls, dies, etc. Just give us a
ring if you have a special application or configuration requirements.
Thanks again,
Jared
Peter Pugger Mfg Inc
Sheryl McMonigal on thu 2 nov 06
hey all clayarters,
I had a chance to meet Jared this summer when we drove out to the peter
pugger place to pick up my pugmil and they are so swell out there and they
go out of their way to help. and boy do I love my pugmill it is awesome.
and thanks jared for your extra mile and staying late for travelers.
sheryl McMonigal in New Mexico
ps we had a great vacation in the redwood forest, I want to move out
there....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Pugger Mfg"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: pugmill, learning curve
> From all of us at Peter Pugger, we would like to thank you for choosing us
> for your clay processing needs.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding your power wedger, big or
> small, please do not hesitate to contact us directly,(707)463-1333 or
> info@peterpugger.com. Our customer service staff and technical team will
> walk you through any learning curve you may be experiencing as you become
> familiar with the machine.
>
> In addition, we are a fully integrated facility capable of custom
> configurations such as forward mounted controls, dies, etc. Just give us a
> ring if you have a special application or configuration requirements.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Jared
> Peter Pugger Mfg Inc
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
| |
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